bedazzledx2

My Mum video'd the entire finals and they are on 3 discs. If you PM me I can send you a set. Cost is $10 plus postage.

Wow! That was quick! Congratulations!!!!! :laugh:

Yes The only time you have to use the word STAY is in the food refusal in UD!

He's gorgeous!!!! Hope you've got a supply of goat in the freezer....I went to get some today and they don't have any and they tell me its in short supply at the moment. Poor dogs had to make do on roo!!! From what I am told he has all the girls working at Quarantine wrapped around his little paw - and from what I can work out he is being spoilt rotten

Here is a really good website that should help with your questions. Lots of good stuff here. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/classical-conditioning

Woo Hoo!!! Can't wait to meet the little guy!

I had a very doggy bitch that would lift her leg to mark and would back up to a tree to mark over the boys. She was also sterilized. It never bothered me as all my dogs know the toileting command. If I'm walking them on lead they should wait until I give them permission.

Totally agree. People have different needs and different definitions of training. Mine is competition obedience training and to that end I will use lots of different types of rewards. When shaping behaviours I'll use lots of food in quick succession. Once the behaviour is taught we need to work on duration and that's where a lot of people don't understand the concept of food in training. We also need to teach the dog to work for different rewards including verbal and physical praise which you can use in the ring. As a by product of competition training, my dogs are obedient in everyday life as they know many commands along with self control games. I do not use aversives other than an occasional 'oye' if they are doing what dogs do and it doesn't coincide with what I want (raiding the rubbish bin comes to mind!) I expect my dogs to obey regardless of reward but that is in the training.

The voice of reason!!!! I very rarely have food on me. I teach just about everything with food. My dogs are better than most pets. One way or another, without actually going into too much technical guff, I think it helps if we can give good instruction in the absolute basics of learning theory along the way.

No leash if I can help it. When I'm at public places or when its a matter of safety I try to have it as loose and unobtrusive as possible. I hate training with a leash as it gets in the way but its sometimes a necessary evil! For heeling I will hold it in my left hand and try to give the puppy the picture he is going to see for all his heeling.

I think they secretly text each other!!!! Hang in there! as Ptolomy says, it will get better

It was great for its time when clicker training was 'new' to the general obedience population. Its a bit dated now and as others have said, there are better books and DVD's available now. If you can get it cheap its worth a look. I think it was around $80 a few years ago.

I've just returned from Geraldton to your news. Congratulations :mad :D

Umm sorry can't agree with that. Aussies and Borders show or working are very different breeds and have different characteristics. You really have to meet a few to get a better idea. Here's a link to my youtube site where you will see mainly my Aussie, a friends BC and a Toller. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=bedazzledx2#g/u I think the thread was interesting. It seems that show border collies and show Aussies are really very much the same, both being big dogs with many being goofy in behaviour. Both show breeds do not show the trademarks of the working dogs that founded their breed, intelligence and keenness in particular was stated to have been removed from the show breeds which makes them ideal for beginners. The breed that stood out as different was the Working border collie. Which has the characteristics both mental and physical of the original breed and for it's function as a working dog. This breed does not meet the criteria of big and goofy. So she can eliminate Working Border Collies from her choice. As most others have said, picking either of these 2 show breeds, you will not find much difference. I think I would go with the Aussie as I believe they have stable temperaments for the most part. When shopping, in either breed look for lower inbreeding levels. COI that is below 4% in 10 generations, or less than 2% in 6 generations. You will need to ask for this from the breeder which should be printed out for the last few generations on a copy of the pedigree. Ask for proof of all the obvious health tests for each breed. Hips, elbows, 3 DNA tests for CL CEA TNS, Glaucoma and possibly BAER for Show Border Collies. You will need read up on Aussies but they will likely need hips, elbows, 1 DNA test for CEA, possibly BEAR. However in the mean time I would start attending some dog training classes with either of your current dogs! Start learning how to be a dog trainer! Who knows, after a few weeks or dog training under your belt, you might change your mind about what you want to find in your next dog.

No worries

Ummm....I'll go along with that

Naughty naughty Beans!!!!!!

I have both and agree with most of what you are saying except my Aussie is more loyal and more devoted to me than my Border. For agility I would be looking for a smaller lighter framed BC but my Aussie outshines my BC in Obedience. Both are have their O Ch titles and the BC was quicker to teach but like my Kelpie, he thought up his own variations whilst the Aussie is a very literal dog and pretty much reflects my training. If I'm wrong so is he and he is happy to say 'you got it wrong and I'll wait until you get it right'!!! By then the others would have figured out 5 different ways to do the job! My Aussie is not stupid...just different to train. They don't do well with harsh old fashioned training methods and love positive reward training. That is true of most breeds but my BC has a much stronger personality and although I don't correction train, he would cope better than the Aussie. Aussies are clowns and you have to have a sense of humor to own one. They also have an off switch which is nice.

Another thought.... do you break it down in training? Three jumps and a reward, or front cross throw the reward in the direction of travel, start line stay..return and reward? Many clubs tend to put up courses and we all merrily do the course and forget about breaking it down and rewarding the in between bits. Lots of us reward contacts but very often the handling stuff goes by the wayside as we go up in the classes and start trailing. Greg Derrett put it best..."we all turn into crappy trainers when we hit the ring" how true!

Oooops!!!! Bloody dogs....who'd have em????!!!!! What did they do???? I'm not really strict about it as I don't have motivation issues so yes, I feed them from a bowl on non training nights. They even get takeaway (dog bickies) when we do!

LOL Other left dufas!!!! My dogs know left and right much better than I do! I actually taught it for agility but I can't spit it out fast enough and often get it wrong anyway so its just a party trick Gosh no, not this human anyway. I sometimes need to think about driving a car to determine left and right (Temple Grandin's Thinking in Pictures comes to mind when I do) I would be stuffed in America cheers M-J

They do get used to it RubyStar! You just have to be strong!!!! As you know Brookie is hugely food driven and I had this issue for a while but he now knows when we get home after training thats it. He's chilling on the couch right now after training.

I would recommend NILIF (Nothing in life is free) You can modify it to suit your circumstances but essentially you control all the good stuff in his life and he has to look to you for whatever he wants. It can seem restricting but it is not punative and can really help develop the relationship. This is one link....there are many if you Google it http://www.dogguide.net/nilif.php Also Premack is worth looking at. I use this every day....dog wants to go for a walk he must give me 30 seconds of great heelwork or a recall etc. I agree with his dinner coming from you and you can use both of these training principles to reward with his dinner in bits. I use small plastic containers that you can put in your pocket and divide up his dinner so he gets a couple of jackpots and some of it in small rewards for nice contacts or a good start line stay. I feed my own mix of BARF and find this is the most convenient way to feed and train. On training nights my dogs don't get dinner in a bowl...all from me.

What's a bit of hair in your soup?!!! Dog hair of course!!! Aussies have a dense undercoat and they do shed. Having said that I find grooming my Aussie much easier and less time consuming than my BC. His coat doesn't knot up and I can have him show groomed from bath to finish in under an hour. (Thats using a dog dryer of course) I would think Tollers would be easier to groom being lighter coated and a smaller dog overall. Both are terrific breeds...love em