bedazzledx2

Me too! I require a sporting dog to be excellent in conformation in order to be able to use its body and brain to do the job I require it to do. Many breeders are still of the mind set of selling their not so well conformed dogs for obedience or agility. Over the years I have heard the comment from the showies..."will make a good obedience/agility dog ha ha" We actually require the best and for me I am happy to show title my dogs as well. If you think about it the breeders prefix is announced every time the dog qualifies in a sporting event. I think that is an excellent question and am also very interested in hearing breeders' viewpoints on it.

Yep! Brookie started squeaking in excitement particularly as he was going round to heel in the finish. I was at a loss as to how to get him to understand it was the vocalizing I didn't want...he started to get worried about the finish if I gave him a NRM. I took it out of the training environment and found a behaviour that I didn't care about that elicited the vocalizing. For him it was terribly exciting to heel backwards! The moment he started the squeaking I gave him a NRM and put him in the car...I didn't scold him at all...just the NRM and potential for him to earn a reward was lost. It didn't take long for him to catch on and I haven't had any problems since.

Woo Hoo!!! You'll get there

LOL My whole garden is enclosed in these things! They'll stay there until the 6 month old grows up a bit $25 gives you 4 panels and you can join the panels together with cable ties.

From a selfish point of view I want to pay proper price and the dog is mine without any terms or conditions! :D I can understand breeders concerns about their lines and the potential for unsuitable breeding but I think vetting potential homes should go a way to get the best outcomes.

JoeK I really don't think you understand the complexities of positive training. Management plays a very big part as does not being permissive. An aggressive dog should never be let loose in a dog park, positive or not. There are always consequences but to say positive training is all about ignoring the bad behaviour and rewarding the good is over simplistic. The trouble with fallout - is that it suppresses the good behaviour. Ie it's what you didn't intend to train, by the dog associating the wrong behaviour with the correction. And given the potentially traumatic nature of correction - it maybe more difficult to fix the wrong association made using punishers, that it is to fix a wrong association made using rewards. If you're using adversives to stop a bad behaviour and that works - then it isn't "fallout". It's a semantics/word definition thing. Egs of fallout (ie what dog learns is not what owner intended): Scolding the dog for barking. Dog thinks owner is joining in and barks more. Scolding and hitting a dog for growling at another dog. Dog learns to stop growling, but will attack directly instead. Ie teaches the dog to attack with no warning. Scolding and rubbing a dogs nose in it for toiletting inside the house. Dog learns to hide when it goes to the toilet. So owner doesn't find it. And dog may just learn to hide from owner. Alpha rolling a dog. Dog learns to fear handler and may opt for the direct attack without warning especially if alpha rolled for growling. Scolding and jerking by the neck, a dog that barks at something unusual in the park. Dog learns to associate pain with the something unusual. And may attempt to attack the something in order chase it off to avoid the pain. Yes,this can happening when the handler is not knowing properly when to apply correction is same as smaking the dog when he come to you after bad behavior is not how is done, but the falling out from incorrect application is handlers fault not the method. Is like extinction method on the purely positive they doing at the dog park and what happens is you ignore the bad behavior and rewarding the good, so when the dog attacking other dogs in the park you ignore when he attack and reward him when he doesnt is good method that one yes? So I taking big nasty mongrel to the dog park for practice the extinction training and when he nail everyone elses dog and they yell to me to get the mongrel out from park, I tell them no, we do extinction training from the purely positive book and ignore the bad behavior to prevent the falling out then everyone should be accepting my training method yes? Joe

Good luck tomorrow!!! Make sure you hydrate before you go in the ring!!!

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001b/101.htm and http://www.clickertraining.com/node/167 There is heaps on You Tube as well...just Google it.

Dunno...I don't do it and the ones I've seen that use a signal are not very successful and they have changed over to a verbal. I've seen one that throws their left hand into a high stop type signal but as I say it wasn't terribly successful. You could try using a different word for sit...someone here uses 'park' which only came into being when she hit UDX

Have you played the two food game? I used it to teach the down so just adjusted it to teach a sit on command. Taught that separate to the heelwork and only put it in when it was on cue.

Have you played 101 things to do with a box?

Its great isn't it!!! I can't claim its mine...the Guru taught me this one :D Just pinched this - what a good explanation ;) Have to teach Toby SFE at some point.

Mason I went through this when I got Zac. It was summer and Parvo was rife with whole litters being lost so I stayed away from K9 for a few weeks and didn't go near a vet. I got his injections done out of area and the first lot was done at a horse vet as I thought the risk of having lots of dogs through was minimal. Ordinarily I would have had him out and about to socialize but I had to weigh up the risks and compromised by taking him in my arms to lots of places like shopping centres and had play dates with other vaccinated dogs and puppies. He is also by nature fairly bullet proof so I wasn't too worried. Different if you have a shy pup so that is something to be aware of. I talked to a few vets in different areas to find out the incidence of Parvo and decided I was able to walk Brookie in my suburb as they hadn't had any cases from here. Its a real risk but you have to weigh up the pros and cons and make as informed a decision as you can.

I'll be interested in your set up RS. I was going to do that sort of stuff but it all got a bit complicated and with 3 dogs now it just wouldn't work. What I did for Geraldton which was the first trip away with all the dogs plus our gear was to have Zac in the crate in the back, Jasper in the space next to the crate and Brookie on a bed on the folded part of the split fold rear seat. All our gear went in the foot well and on the other part of the back seat. I was worried it wouldn't work but we managed. I'll probably bring the trailer for Albany though. The wheat doesn't touch him :p It's covered by 2 layers. Would that still affect him? Just curious! For some good news (well for me ) I spoke to Steve tonight and he's going to build me a 2 door barrier system thingy with a divider for the boot of my car, all removable, this Friday woohooooo So now I can get poor Ruby in and out of the car without b!tch features muzzling her way through instead I did ask about the false floor for extra storage and he said he could do it, but upon further thought, we concluded that it wouldn't leave them with much room and they'd have further to jump in so I will live with using my back seats and foot wells to carry training gear, but at least with this setup it eliminates the need to carry a crate on my back seat at all times! Just for occasions where I can't use my car as a crate. I'll also get him to rig up my cargo net as a cargo barrier to stop Millie from jumping over my back seats. So it's not for a safety thing, just a visual barrier to hopefully deter her. Hope my tax refund from last year (that I only just submitted ) comes back soon, as it has already been spent! Can't wait :D P.S. might need a new car for dog #3, this setup won't work with 3 dogs but I will cross that bridge when I get to it

I think you mentioned a steroid injection at one stage? Did she have that? The reason I ask is that my Mum had a terrible shoulder problem that involved the tendon at one stage that wouldn't heal despite physio etc. She was told she could have a maximum of two steroid injections...if the first one didn't work they would do another but no more. Fortunately it did work and she hasn't had a problem since. She waited for a long time in pain before finally relenting and she now says it was the best thing she did.

Teach him the steady feet game. Start out in a sit and you focus only on his two front feet. Reward in position. You can also do the slow food delivery...very very slowly bring a tasty morsel closer and closer to his mouth. He will most likely move to reach and take the food at which point you dramatically snatch it away! He learns the only way to get the food is to stay still. When you do deliver the food make sure you put the food in his mouth and don't cause him to move at the last second. Progress to a stand and again focus only on his front feet to start. Split it up and work on one thing at a time. Don't introduce the examination until he can keep his feet still under progressively harder distractions ultimately not moving if food is thrown on the ground near him...that bit is pretty advanced so don't make him run before he can walk! Another very important point is to ensure he has an on word and even more importantly an off word. That way he gets to move when you use your off word and not before. (I use "that'll do" but you can use "free" or whatever you like) Remember to be absolutely consistent.

Rules prevent any form of simulated weapons so even drawing your finger is not allowed. Personally I think its PC gone a little over the top!

This is the post I put in page 2 of the current pet shop topic but it seems to be relevant here. I haven't been able to get the link working so have just copied and pasted it. I think its really important that breeders become pro-active with advertising and marketing. It strikes me that registered ANKC breeders are terrible marketers! . Many of my clients have purchased pet shop puppies and the most recent was a baby shih tzu x something. It was supposed to be 7 weeks but I reckon it would be lucky to be 6 weeks old Now these people are nice, average, well educated people who are not short of a dollar and wanted to get a friend for their other pet shop girl who is now around 4 years old. I asked them why they bought their puppy from a pet shop rather than a breeder and their response is fairly typical to what you get from Joe and Jane Public. "We don't want to show so we didn't go to a show dog breeder" We don't want to do competition stuff so we didn't go to that sort of breeder either" We just wanted a nice pet so we went to a pet shop...why wouldn't you?, after all, look at 'Fluffy' she was from a pet shop and she's been a great dog" Many, many people want a small, fluffy dog and the Maltese/Shitzu (deliberate sp ) fits the bill and thats what they see every time they go past the pet shop at the shopping center. Of course there is the impulse buy which is what they depend on and exactly what good breeders don't want to foster. The problem is many fold. A biggie is that people are simply unaware that there is a difference between being registered with a State and National Kennel Club and the code of ethics that go with that, and a backyard breeder and some may even see breeders as puppy farmers. What is the incentive to go buy a puppy from a registered breeder??? Bear in mind that Mr and Mrs Public have been told ad infinitum by the gardener, along with some vets and the media that pure breeds are full of health problems and cross breeds don't have these health problems. Its all very well to sit back and say people are stupid and this type of forum is preaching to the converted but is there a solution? I believe there is and I think it needs to be in the form of education. We need to be mindful of what most people want and to try to use the media to make them aware of the advantages of buying a pure breed from a registered breeder. BTW I am not a breeder but have a great respect for those that are.

I observed one trial where the judge was an experienced tracking judge so was very aware of the wind direction and it was blowing a gale!!! She put the wash cloths in a straight line and maximum distance apart so that the scent was blowing away from the cloths. Great when you have an on the ball judge!

Geez Louise!!!! Thats a radical site : No room for compromise in this guys world is there. I have met many people like that, I'm afraid. They are slowly becoming fewer in number, but they are still out there. One of our local professional trainers is very vocal in proclaiming that he won't use a clicker or food treats to train dogs. On his website, he calls positive reward training the "Bullshit Industry of the Century". You can't get much more black and white than that! http://www.paulhutton.co.nz/industry/index.html I have also talked to more than one professional trainer who didn't know what a clicker/marker was actually for, as well as several people over the years who have been convinced that all dogs need corrections or they won't be reliable. Look at Ed Frawley, he openly admits that he used to trash-talk clicker training only because he was closed minded and didn't understand what it was about. Now, he is a convert. People on both sides of the argument can be arrogant and closed minded and unwilling to learn.

Definately take cake!!!! Our system is that if you do something good you take cake! :D

It strikes me that registered ANKC breeders are terrible marketers! . Many of my clients have purchased pet shop puppies and the most recent was a baby shih tzu x something. It was supposed to be 7 weeks but I reckon it would be lucky to be 6 weeks old Now these people are nice, average, well educated people who are not short of a dollar and wanted to get a friend for their other pet shop girl who is now around 4 years old. I asked them why they bought their puppy from a pet shop rather than a breeder and their response is fairly typical to what you get from Joe and Jane Public. "We don't want to show so we didn't go to a show dog breeder" We don't want to do competition stuff so we didn't go to that sort of breeder either" We just wanted a nice pet so we went to a pet shop...why wouldn't you?, after all, look at 'Fluffy' she was from a pet shop and she's been a great dog" Many, many people want a small, fluffy dog and the Maltese/Shitzu (deliberate sp ;)) fits the bill and thats what they see every time they go past the pet shop at the shopping center. Of course there is the impulse buy which is what they depend on and exactly what good breeders don't want to foster. The problem is many fold. A biggie is that people are simply unaware that there is a difference between being registered with a State and National Kennel Club and the code of ethics that go with that, and a backyard breeder and some may even see breeders as puppy farmers. What is the incentive to go buy a puppy from a registered breeder??? Bear in mind that Mr and Mrs Public have been told ad infinitum by the gardener, along with some vets and the media that pure breeds are full of health problems and cross breeds don't have these health problems. Its all very well to sit back and say people are stupid and this type of forum is preaching to the converted but is there a solution? I believe there is and I think it needs to be in the form of education. We need to be mindful of what most people want and to try to use the media to make them aware of the advantages of buying a pure breed from a registered breeder. BTW I am not a breeder but have a great respect for those that are.

Woo Hoo TN :thumbsup: Thats a pretty good day at the office! :D

Agree. Keep an eye on it but its nothing to stress about. My guys do it all the time and if your dog had black nails you wouldn't even notice.

Here's another thought...pulling on the lead is not the be all and end all of having an obedient dog!! shock horror I consider my dogs to be as obedient as I need them to be. I use opposition reflex and things like restrained recalls to build speed and drive for other behaviours, so if they pull a bit on the lead then I live with it. Heel is a specific behaviour taught for competition and I don't ask for it unless I really need it. Loose leash walking is optional so long as they don't pull my arm off!! We train what we need and my definition of an obedient dog is a reliable fast recall. Others may be different but I get frustrated when pulling on the lead, or not, is seen to be the essence of an obedient dog.