Mym

Hahaha...I have a shithead too. He was surrendered over his behaviour - only thing I would add is the importance of the other dog. My slightly older more relaxed dog is very good at making this feistier one toe the line. And we allow him within reason to check the other dogs behaviour. The younger dog gets very vocal about not getting his way but he modifies his behaviour. Like I have put in other posts, we have spent four months trying to teach this boy manners - mainly because he has lacked the socialisation skills to know any better. I liken our boy with a child reared by wolves, and we are getting there. Given that you are looking into this so early, my guess is that you are onto it and will sort him out. It is early days yet - Good Luck and where is his picture???

Cathy Slot and Steve Drinkwater are based in SE Qld and stock these http://www.agilityclick.com/ Greg Derrett is coming to Australia in November too and there are places for auditors (watch and take notes) - it is in Sydney if you were super keen. Funny, I have a rehomed collie who was a lunatic and we have been doing foundation agility and nothing else training wise for the last month. He made his debut last night at our club and all in all was a star. It was the first time he has gone anywhere without our other collie and he was sitting and following hand signals rather nicely. All on lead but we will get there. The difference is that one year apart, I know so much more about training this dog compared to my other one - and you really don't want to have bad habits that you have to spend time fixing if you don't need to. I was ready to quit two months ago and gave it one last shot with going back and starting again - this difference is beyond belief. Also, if you are training alone, video yourself if you can - it makes and enormous difference. Tell me about it!

Yes, I agree with Dee, you haven't failed him at all. And you are doing the right thing by him now. Don't beat yourself up - xoxo

Maybe look up Foundation Training videos/dvds by people like Greg Derrett, Susan Garrett and Moe Strenfel - you won't regret it. I get so much from watching these over and over.

Yes, I was was giving my dogs chicken treats and got the shock of my life when I saw they were from China.... My guys love the Ziwipeak, apparently you can also get a 5kg bag which really brings the price right down. But my local pet shop doesn't carry it

Hi Raven, I have a Collie Rough (actually I have two but he is one of the pair) who was surrendered because he was showing the same behaviour. I had never come across a dog like that before and it really made me think hard. Firstly, we don't have young children so we do have the luxury of retraining. But, in all the reading I did on this the thing that made the most sense was that this behaviour didn't happen overnight. What starts out as pushing between a child and the parent or the dog growling as a puppy over his dinner bowl can become - at puberty - a dog that is pushing the boundaries in a very unreasonable way. I don't know your dog but the age that this has occurred is exactly the age this collie started showing it as well. One of the reasons I read was that as a pup or juvenile, these dominant natured dogs aren't wanting to be head of the pack, but come the onset of adulthood and they start to flex their muscles. We were so shocked to see this dog launch at the front door and his level of agro over his dinner was just crazy. We made minor headway until I reached a deadend and then a friend mentioned Cesar Milan. I don't think his methods would work for my other collie but they have made this young lad that we have here into a delightful happy friendly dog. We pay about $15 per month to do the online modules and it is the best money I ever spent on training. He is still a boofhead but he is able to be recalled from any potential situation now and last night my 18 year old daughter walked in the door and he offered her a sit as opposed to leaping on her - it was so subtle - we nearly forgot to reward for it. Good luck, you must be feeling very down about this situation and I am sure he is a great dog. But I guess he is also a big dog and your son's needs have to come first.

Ah Jess, I think we may have bought the same crate. It has this zip bag on the top which is brilliant for toys etc. Mine came from Topbuyaustralia on ebay - managed to get the pic for you just now. Ignore the dimensions because they were incorrect. This crate is enormous.

The other option is to ask him to stand on something on flat ground that feels different to the surrounding groumd. It was suggested to me a few years ago now to use a large sheet of corrugated card as it feels nothing like the usual ground surfaces they are on which makes them aware of their foot movement. Put standing on that on cue and reduce the size then once it is well established on cue, introduce something else that is slightly raised and ask them toi step onto that, sometimes they get stuck and need some help as they may not generalise the cue to the new object. Yes, good question - I think the box might be a bit small to begin with. I had a nobbly rubber bath mat underneath it so that when he hit that I rewarded it so that there was a clear line for having moved closer and onto something that was a bit different. Am sure I can locate some iron though - thanks for the tip A mate at agility suggested last night a mostly deflate ball that you would use for pilates and we were going to get organised and make a wobble board. Mind you I get so excited by each small achievement that we make - on Saturday we were in a handling class. I felt we had spent a brilliant day out and the instructors were saying that even in the heat the dogs had more drive at the end of the day than at the beginning. I have never done more than about 8 obstacles because we have not competed or ever run a full course. My dog knew exactly what to do....it was me that was getting lost all the bloody time! I was so excited by how well he was going that I was forgetting where to be next So funny....and yes....it was all caught on videotape. My reason for posting that is at the end, one of the people in my group said that some of us were crap and some were really good. I was a bit surprised because she obviously meant me, yet from my perspective I felt like it had been the most wonderful day with my dog ever. Funny about how perspective can alter our own personal realities.

I bought mine on ebay and it was $15 to Brisbane from Sydney. Mind you, it is a beautiful crate but it was supersize and the ad was basically a large, I measured their dimensions next to my present crate and when it arrived it was enormous. However, on Saturday I was glad as it was really hot and my boy could really stretch out. So with freight, my pony sized crate was $85.00

What about OzCollie Rescue...and btw...hi Judy

So True isn't it? I have two collies, and they are so different in personality - given that I am fairly new to clicker it can make for interesting times. I have been practicing my clicker skills with both and my older boy just starts offering anything. So this requires me to be training something that I won't necessarily be fazed about it I stuff up. I was looking on You Tube the other day for video on 180 and 270's and found a dog called Dazzle that has something like 65+ tricks. One video was 'blowing bubbles'. Funnily enough, my young nuclear powered dog was doing this in about two sessions of five minutes each - he loved it. My older dog, who has done some clicker training was just unimpressed with what I was asking him to do. He just hates dipping his nose in water, so I let it go, and we tried standing on a box. I got his front feet on easily and his back feet inched closer to it but we just didn't get anywhere closer. I trained this as I am really trying to get him aware of his back legs. So what do you do when you are so close, but so far from the goal? He just started running through a repertoire of skills, I felt like he was going "okay, maybe it is this, or that, what about this? - with no inkling of it." We packed up for the day and I left it.... Maybe...I could walk him onto the box? And reward for his hind legs being on it?

Was it Shandi that ate the sausages? I have a cat that is the spitting image of the cat in your post. He weighs 8.5kg and I could imagine him nicking a beef sausage :D We use Ziwipeak fish and venison - my dog has a very weak gut for anything fatty - poor kid starts vomiting and it will go on for hours with him retching. He was badly starved before he became a RSPCA dog. It is probably off topic but recently someone said it could be his liver....I would love to sort it out, for him and for me.

Hmmm...sounds good, not too salty - maybe they don't preserve them with salt? I hear you about the stink....I used sardines the other day and pong!!! I could smell it on my fingers for ages.

Okay....just got offered the one of the socks again....think that for me to waggle the sock at my dog is up there with singing to him.... ;) Don't you just love dogs? :cool: Maybe the lesson is to reward like no one is watching you.

Ah! What a small world - I know you too! (What Tony refers to is my dog's phobic nature to a lot of things...dogwalk, tunnel, then cloth tunnel...list went on) After my last visit a few months ago, I just decided to get back to really basic things. I bought Moe Strenfel's Foundation Agility and watched it about three times And we do that on a daily basis now, even if it is for five minutes. More than anything, I feel like by going back, we have redefined out communication - if that doesn't sound too out there. I really feel like it has made a difference to how I handle my dog. So are you off to Tivoli tomorrow Tony? If not - shall see you Tuesday! Oh and Seita, funny you mention the rock solid sit stays....I am finding that to be great training with both my dogs. It is almost like by sit/staying they begin to wait for the release. Like Tony said, some controlled releases would probably be fun too.

ROFLOL....Meea, have a disturbingly vivid picture in my head of singing to my dog That is brilliant! So JulesP - I have worked on using the ball in our crate games to send him out to the ball on the ground. This is a variation of throwing the ball as a reward for him going over the jump. How we actually got him jumping in the first place was that we worked on transferring his love of the ball to the jump, and I have to say that this has been a big success. I had considered working on him driving more to the ball but for reasons I am yet to get, he is losing interest. My guess is that he is extremely motivated by the movement of the ball. Will let you all know how our 'sock' rope gets on.

This is great! So much to consider. Jigsaw, I hadn't considered that - and it would make sense as to why he is less likely to tug in public. As for his motivation, this dog LOVES the ball. He is also very happy to deliver it back to my hand on request which had me thinking about how this isn't such a bad alternative to tugging. But, I am starting to see that I can't always play fetch with him and tugging would make life easier. Have also found that over time - the drive towards the ball is not as full on as it once was. The tip on the link leopuppy posted about inadverdantly shaping the dog was interesting. I am also interested to know that not every agility dog tugs....how important do people feel tugging is?

COOL! Congratulations, as an aside, every dog in my beginners class was a rescue...best dogs ever!

Vickie, I am certain that I am more self conscious at training-but it would make sense if my dog is too, after all that is what I am projecting. I am off to a workshop tomorrow that is going to provide video feedback as well. Will be interesting to see it. Also, leopuppy04 suggests some links....went off to read a very interesting one about inadverdantly shaping the dog NOT to tug by offering rewards because the dog is losing interest in the tug. This is awesome feedback people - Thank You!

Good point 4Kelpies, maybe what I am trying to build is drive. LOL....haven't seen many kelpies with that problem

Think I am going to make a rope of all the old socks here! How hilarious! The only time I have managed to get him tugging outside of the house is in the driveway, I can rough house with him and then offer the tug. Point that I think I have missed is that these toys are always around on the floor. Think I have missed that I need to keep it just for training. Seriously, I have about 50 odd socks in a basket here....could be the cheapest tug I have got.

Ah! Leopuppy....I have just bitten the bullet and bought Susan Garrets dvd's! Waiting for them in the post as I write. Shall read the articles. Is one of them about putting the toy in broth so they like the smell? I should add that it has been a long road with this dog, he was starved before becoming an RSPCA dog and was very 'shut down'. We started agility to socialise him and now we are a bit addicted to it And...yep, she lists the Dirty Sock in her list you linked me too!

We use a toy bone that he loves to use at home, I bought a ball that has rope coming out each end, and I guess he loves to tug on these at home. The ball is definitely his toy of choice though. I do need to rev him up at agility, funny but he is offering socks that get left around the house.....reckon I could take a few odd socks to training???

Just thought that this could be a spot to swap ideas on training issues etc. Not into flaming - so keep it nice My biggest challenge is tugging! I have a big sable collie that will tug like there is no tomorrow at home but will only chase a ball at training. I have tried and tried but he just looks at it like I dropped a hand grenade at his feet. Thank you to huski who advised me I had this in General Discussion

Also read that Chi Dogs came from China, were brought to Mexico during the Spanish occupation but not sure how accurate that is.