mackiemad

i was feeding canidae no grain ALS but my dog, who isn't the most food motivated but usually eats most of his dinner before getting distracted, juts wasn't interested. i kept feeding til the end of the bag thinking he'll get used to it or grow to like it, but my OH used to liagh and say it was the most expensive parrot food ever (lots of parrots around here, who woudl swoop in and eat it if he had left it overnight). switched to the proplan sensitive salmon and he is eating it but isn't in love. he's only been on it for a few weeks but i'm not sure his coat is loving it either. the reason i don't feed eagle pack is because it is so erratic in the supply. my dog loves to eat it and does pretty well on it but there's no point if i can't know i will be able to buy it...

thanks deelee, comofrting words! i always assumed that if we got the chilled pup then a gundog would be ok, but am starting to think otherwise... i think the personaility of a GSP or poiner would really suit them as a couple but it all depends i guess thanks raineth, another one to consider! i assumed they would be too on the go being a herding breed, but will look into them.

so the OH left a cooked chicken drumstick on a side table form his lunch and forgot to put it in the bin. i heard something (working from home) suspicious and walked in only to find my mini schnauzer polishing it off. should i make him vomit it up? (what would i use?) or do i wait and monitor him to see if there is an issue and take him to the vet should one arise? that OH will be getting a mouthful from me tonight, i tell you what

aussielover: a kid is in the future, when they have moved to a bigger place, have a decent amount of dosh to ensure they can get it into a private school (if only they put the same thought into a dog!) and whilst i hate to say it is a practise child (because in essence it isn't) she is feeling the pressure of her ticking clock and is happy to wait for a child but i think she needs and wants to get her mothering instinct out now a bit-she wants soemthign to love so to speak. plus, they just want a dog. the wanted one in london but were renting and weren't really able to. they wanted one when they moved back home around 2 years ago but the wedding and settling in was more important. basically they have wanted a dog for a couple of years but it wasn't the right time. but neither of them were raised with dogs, or animals really, and so have no clue about dogs really... however they have a great lifestyle for a dog except for the fact that they both work full time atm. there is some chance that she will go part-time freelance BUT it isn't on the cards atm. (and yes, any dog that is doing that much exercise and it gets reduced will become destructive, but i believe that is all part of preparing the dog for the child, when and if she becomes pregnant in the future. something to keep in mind, of course) they don't like labradors in that they think they are too friendly and gregarious with everyone, that isn't thier style i guess. and that is their choice, personally i'm not a fan of labs either, but that is also because of exercise needs, soemthign that doesn't bother them. Kaffy: ys a dobe is HIGHLY unsuitable IMHO. i'm really trying to get them off it, i'm not sure they really get the difference between the mental needs of different breeds. they are sold on a registered breeder so i'm slowly getting somewhere. i will get them off the dobe eventually. they are a fab breed, just not for first time owners. of course fashion isn't that important, but i guess we all like the look of different breeds, i was hamming that up a bit though they are very fashion conciouse and interested people but they woudl not be willing to live with an animal that was completly unsuitable even if it was the coolest thing around! monah: thanks for the info on PWDs, compiling lots of info and will put it all to them, the good that abd and the ugly. and whilst they may be a bit much for this couple there's nothing wrong with 'spethal' dogs! again thanks guys! loving the info, it's certainly helping!

i don't disagree at all aussielover! and i am very involved in ensuring that they get the right pup from the right breeder. whilst i think such a high energy breed could work (provided the right pup is chosen) now, when they have a child in a year or three (definitely on the cards) i think they'll regret such a high need/energy dog. though it would get two decent jogs/runs a day atm, when a baby comes along i think it'll only be the husband jogging for a while. i am trying to slowly get them onto a smaller and more managable and adaptable dog. hence why i love the idea of a beagle (after adoclesence of a few years one good run and a walk with a pram should be enough, plus training sessions, again right pup is always necessary). i personally think if they get off the idea of the large sleek dog that has a good warning bark then they would find a few breeds that would suit them down to the ground. i guess lots of education from me then?! ahh, another grand final lunch/drinks in order to educate them!

what a knob! and good on you for speaking up about poop picking up! it gets me furious when ppl don't. i've developed a good death stare, and if they still don't pick up i pointedly offer them a bag. if that fails, well they get the rant!

thanks sandra for the info on PWD, it sounds like it might fit - though as you said yours might not have been as true to type, a PWD that doesn't like water?! mrs rusty: i hadn't considered a beagle! but yes, it is sleek, can run, maybe a bit destructive but if exercised properly might be swell. a bit smaller than they were looking for but they don't really know what they want anyway so i'll just have to tell them what they need instead. (i think she'll love the ears on a beagle, after all i thik that's the only reason they like my schnauzer!) i had considered a shorthaired collie (we used to own a lovely rough) but i'm not sure it would cope with being alone most of the day, they are sensitive souls, and it might be too much of a shedder... i had also considered a poodle, of mini or standard size but i don't think they like the poodle, the husband seems to think they are wussy. we know he is wrong but he isn't the most educated, this is a guy that wanted a dobe because it would be a ready made protection dog as well as a jogging partner thanks for the suggestions and help guys, muchos appreciated!

doing a shameless bump in the hope that i'll get somemore advice on portugese water dogs, pointers/gsps and any other suggestions?

it doesn't sound like it had the vac at 12 weeks though staranais? so it had it's very first vac in july and hasn't had any since then? how old was it when it had the first vac? was it when it was 7 weeks old? i honestly don't know CW EW, but i would assume that if they didn't do the three separate vacs when the pup is young then it has no immunity to boost if you know what i mean?

thanks magpie, from what i've read they seemed to be a good fit, but you never know unless you meet them or chat to ppl with experience of the breed! bryan, woudl a whippet deal with a good half hour jog in the morning? i thought they were burst runners...although haveing said that i guess i have met one or two that coudl cope with the energy requirements. i'm not sure they'd go for the msall size though, but i'll just have to work harder to get them to understand! i had considered a vizla, along with the GSP and english pointer, but out of the three breeds i assumed they were the ones that didn't have an off switch and might be more destructive. but i've nevver lived with any of them, and would love some guidance on the differences between these breeds to actually live with! i assumed that the GSP was a bit more individual, the pointer needs more exercise but will turn off easier when you're around and the vizla is always 'come on guys, lets do soemthing!' thanks for the help guys- keep the suggestions coming!

would a phaoroh hound suit? i know they're sighthounds, but if off lead running was done on weekends and occasionlly on weeknights, would that be ok? can they be left at home?

alyosha: i did consider a GSP, but i've always thought that they didn't have as much of an 'off' switch as an english pointer (thuogh i've had neither breed, so i may be totally wrong!) and might not like hanging out at home all day? sandra: i hadn't considered the PWD, and i don't know a whole lot about them? (off to do a bit more research now...-they'll LOVE that obama has one, pathetic isn't it!) i'm glad you think that a dobe might be too much, that's what i was thinking but then i thought maybe i was being a bit harsh on the dobe? i don't think they're the kinds of people that would go to a dog show and have a look, they wouldn't consider that it takes a lot of effort for a lot of the coats on display either... lyndsay: i was going to steer them away from terriers just because of the higher drive that they have, after all, a schnauzer has a lot less drive than many terriers. i also thought that my schnauzer might struggle with what they want for exercise, i know a lot of terriers will be fine with it, but i assumed that they would all have too much 'drive' to be suitable for these owners. i think they like the ears and 'spunk' of the schnauzer but i do think they want something larger and sleeker, though coat is something they are willing to deal with/work around. what kinds of terriers may suit? and i did mention that i'm not sure a dally would be suitable, too much energy for them i think. i guess i'm just concerned that they seem to want something pretty high energy that won't destroy the house during the day but they need something that is a bit more easy going as they aren't 'dog people' per se... though it would be well loved and provided for i haven't had a whole lot firsthand experience with pointers, would they actually be suitable?

i suggested that as i personally think it suits their lifestyle, BUT i'm not sure they're sold on the looks and i think they want something with more exercise/jogging for a while ability. would a grey get too tired to jog along for an hour/45mins? i erred on the side of no...

my aunt and her husband are looking to buy a puppy: they live in a smallish townhouse, but want to be able to take the dog for a nice good walk/jog (hubby runs slow) and they live near a nice park, they have a house down at the beach as well. so a pretty active type dog would be fab. but they both work full time (although children are in the near future) so it would spend some time during the day by itself - i did say that any dog that wants an hour or more of good exercise will destroy the house if not worked in the morning, and they have no problems with one walking in the morning and another exercise shift in the arvo. (they may move to a bigger place in the next few years but atm it's a courtyard during the day) they want something low shedding, don't mind clipping every few months, but a wash and wear kind of dog. a largish sized dog is preferable, though they do really like my mini schnauzer *he* wants something that will be a deterrant to prowlers, and was mentioning things like bite pounds per square inch and silly phrases before i ranted at him for a while. honestly, if it has a good bark then i think that'll be fine, she doesn't want a hassle. they say they are happy to take it to training/obedience once a week, he says that it will be good for him but i'm not sure that dog sports are in the picture. they will be first time dog owners and i'm not sure that they want a really intense dog, something a bit easy going, but they don't like labradors (apparantly a bit mumsy?!) and golden retrievers shed too much. they also want something that is attractive, fashionable i dare say (they always buy things for fashion, blu ray, ipad etc) i suggested a curly coat retriever (they liked the rarebreed but weren't keen on it being similar to a lab) currently they are in discussions (i found out today) with a dobe breeder, but i'm not sure they will give enough mental stimulation, nor are firm enough leaders for a dobe. i also worry that they are interested for the 'guard dog' aspect. so i said i'd be happy to go along when they meet the breeder and ask all the health check questions etc, i'm not sure a breeder should be selling a pup to this couple, they are nice, but are not dog people and i don't think they have enough nerve, rules etc for a dobe-i'd worry that they'd end up with a big dog with issues... so they like the look of a dobe, mastiff, dalmation, english pointer. is there a breed that suits? or do i just say, make sure the breeder picks a low drive pup for them? i just want to ensure i can give good advice on breeds i haven't owned, thank you! ETA: the dog will be an inside, outside dog, as in will have acess to the courtyard but will be allowed inside and will sleep inside...

ok. so if we ONLY ban pet shops from selling live animals then HOW is that supposed to stop all those ads on the trading post and petlink? because i think anyone who knows more than a little on this subject is keenly aware that much of puppy farms sales never see a shopfront. i'm not sure that banning pet shop sales is the way to go, but in combination with other legislation then it might be effective. and the RSPCA operates under DIFFERENT legislation is different states. they are also run by different people in different states. they have no connection to each other, only the rspca australia, and all they do is ensure that there is sufficient funds management (ie, one state isnt grovelling poor and the others are doing ok, they can shift the funds to where they're needed) and that their general aims are being met and perpetuated, such as education, aide and rehab. NOT all states have kill sheleters either, that depends on state law AND often the law is different for the rspca than other rescue orgs. in VICTORIA, which is where we are talking about, we cannot go in and sieze an animal unless the animal is in immediate danger. we must give warnings and try to educate and owner first. often we try and get them to sign an animal over if we think we will not be able to sieze or educate the owners suffeicently. we only act on tip offs that have WITNESSED the act of cruelty or negligence and they must give their name so it can be verified and we can contact them for a witness statement if necessary. jed, in victoria there has been a media campiagn for this in the past few months. we have had ads (when is say ads, i mean poster type things) in the paper, ads on the sides of buses, ads on public transport shelter. there have been newspaper articles written because fo this campaign, one was linked in this thread, from july this year, in the age. they didn't have the money to keep it up, so it has weaned off now. and as for people saying that they haven't been pointing fingers, well, all i can say is that comments such as this: It stinks to high heaven off bullshit excuses to me. The RSPCA have the power, they use it when it suits them and rakes in the $$$ from ready set go feels like finger pointing to me. i have stated before that i am aligned with the rspca vic. i have actually been pretty impartial, but i don't believe that just because i work for the rspca (not that they can afford to or do pay me much) it doesn't mean that i am full of bullshit, nor does it mean that i, or the people i work with, are out to get registered breeders. obviously you have this view, and i don't believe it. so they got one woman (and i have said that i don't know the deatils of the case, so please don't jump down my throat, i'm not saying who was right or wrong, i've honestly no idea) and you all think that everyone who works there and that the entire organisation is scum? and animal lib, you decide they hate you and you refuse to work with them? well how will anythign be achieved if there isn't discussion from all sides. i keep saying this and i keep getting replies saying that you guys wouldn't be in the same room and discuss anythign with animal lib, well then how is anythign to be done? how can you ensure that your views are heard as well as theirs? *sigh* i'm tired, but i'll say one last thing. steve said this earlier: Well rather than being disapointed because you - someone who doesnt breed thinks they should have been there perhaps you could try to get educated and see why they werent there. in response to my not being a breeder. well i'm not a breeder because i have no interest in owning an undesexed dog (too much hassle for me as i only want pets) and because i'm simply not invested enough with one breed to commit to that responsibility. i think i'm actually pretty educated thank you steve, and i think that post is beneath you. do i know everything? hell no. do i believe i do? hell no. i said that no one wants to get into bed with animal lib because we don't agree with philosophy. BUT i said that because we (people concerned with puppy farms) need their money, power, connections and the sheer body mass they provide to something like a rally, then it was worth trying to work with them. if the animal industry cannot agree and work together then any legislation, if it ever happens, will be a crappy compromise. SOMETIMES it is worth getting into bed with the devil in order to make the end product neither angelic nor devillish. i know why they weren't there steve. they were so damn scared that they were going to get vilified by the public animal lib and the rspca (not saying this is without cause). they were so concerned that because organisations like animal lib are involved it will all get turned around so that they no longer have rights as people or breeders should this legislation go ahead. they were worried that should this legislation go ahead then all breeding would be impossible and the puppy farms that survive and whoops litters will be all the dogs we have left. all i am saying is, how on earth can you prevent that from happening, being vilified by the public and ending up with sub-par legislation unless you get out there and invest yourself in the process. saying you don't agree from afar is one thing. getting involved, saying you don't agree with aspects and trying to ensure that your members and representatives get a 'fair go' is another. you cannot shape any legislation unless you are INVOLVED in the process.

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws. Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally. Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing. Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too. I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet. you're so right nekhbet. that is why i was disappointed that the ankc, vicdogs or even breed organisations (a poodle club would have REALLY been worthwhile) didn't rock up and have their stands on sunday, giving out fliers talking about why they're pups, dogs and members are opposed to puppy farming and why they are different and ethical.-also HOW to determine if a breeder is ethical and how to approach and find such breeders. how on earth do you expect ignorant joe blow public to find out and buy well bred pups from an ethical rigistered breeder if they don't know where to look? guys, we aren't trying to put you out of business, we're trying to say you need to push yourselves and your agenda (healthy, pedigree pups and dogs) into the public sphere. we want to catch the bad guys, as i'm sure you do, so we HAVE to work together or those left out in the codl may be the ones who didn't come to the discussions purely because their p.o.v wasn't included. if you want to shut up shop, fine. if you want to give up, fine. honestly, it already feels like you've given up on the public. even from outside the dog show world but within the animal industry it all feels very exclusive, so how are the ordinary families wanting quality pets going to feel? you pay your societies good money and you pay it for a good reason. they are not living up to your demands, they are failing you. we are saying that you can get involved in the process and ensure that pedigree dogs survive and flourish, that the recent bad attitude in the public can be turned around with positive and active involvement in society and the media. nobody on here likes working with animal lib, but the issue is real and they provide a whole lot of bodies, contacts and support to the cause. but we need more moderate reps to ensure that all side and facets of the dog world are represented and that the good breeders AREN'T thrown out with the bad. how will that happen if you won't even TRY to enter discussions?

ok, i have a 'severly' type 1 diabetic friend and my mother has had type 1 diabetes since before myself and my brother were born. i've been around diabetics my whole life and i have never heard of someone collapsing and then having a heart attack. unless he had been running around and looking for the dog with his levels already out of whack beforehand? or had had some other drugs in his system? a coma is much more likely than a heart attack. sorry, but i think that part is weird. i reckon there must be something else to this story, cos it isn't adding up to me. i mena, it could happen, it just doesn't seem that likely is all- so i reckon there must be information that wasn't given to the newspaper. ;) although he was stupid to put a condom on his dog (honestly, WHY? how did he think he was going to get it off?! ), it does sound like he tried to remove it quickly once he realised he'd made a mistake, if this version of the story is to be believed. more 'moral' than watching a dog starve in your backyard i suppose. you reckon he must've had something else in hi system to go, gosh darn, my dog is peeing everywhere. i know! i'll put a condom on it! -just a random, slightly disturbing thought, i wonder what size condom 'fits' a labrador?! actually the more i think about this case the more wtf it is all round! cool name though. abeywickrema, has a nice rhythm to it...

Have you read it fully. Are we talking about the same document the 117 page document. ok shortstep. i'm officially confused. what is the 117 page document you're talking about? because a lot of what you think should be is actually included in the proposed oscar's law. we were asking for legislation to be drawn up, unless you are privvy to information that the rest of us don't know i think you may be confusing what we are proposing in victoria with what is in place in other states. seriously oakway. i'm happy to discuss these issues because they are important. but i can't do that unless i actually know what you're trying to say. and generally, yes. every time anything to do with legislation gets pulled into dol, we have the same argument. the RSPCA is evil, power hungry maniacs. i am getting a bit sick of it, but i will continue to say, i don't agree with the fact that they have a serious conflict of interest but someone needs to act, the state government has decided to give them that job, and they do it. are they perfect, no. do i believe they can fight dirty? yes if they think it is needed, as politicians can too. it is because they can be like a jrt after a rat that i think giving them the opportunity to go after puppy farmers is a good idea-they are waiting to be able to do it. (i'm not persoanlly 'up' on the debarking case you guys have mentioned, so there is no way i could ever make an educated comment on that) BUT if that conflict of interest is your main bugbear then why not prepare a nicely worded and well researched document stating why this is the case and send it to honchos in police, and members of the upper and lower houses, even the mayor's office. nothing gets changed if you don't try, but if you come angry and full of hatred you won't be listened to. we know it is easier to get things done rather than undone, especially in victoria-which is the state we are talking about here, not nsw, qld, tasmania. honestly, a lot of what you guys seem to be arguing about doesn't make sense when we are talking about the rally yesterday. no-one was trying to shut down breeding dogs, just trying to ensure that it occurs in an ethical way. nothing is set in stone and i'm sure that the organisers of the rally would have loved to have practical imput from registered ethical breeders to help define what constitutes unethical and how to shut it down. yes, there is the issue that all breeders may be targeted if the legislation is not drawn up carefully, a point i expressed to ted baillieu and he agreed. but the only way to ensure that the only 'breeders' we catch under the net of any new legislation is by talking and developing it so that it won't, that process should include registered breeders and their governing bodies, if they want to come to the party they are most welcome, even needed. seriously, i've never heard people bashing regsitered breeders. i've only ever heard the fear from registered breeders that this is the case. perhaps i move in very educated circles? though i admit, i am frustrated that some people on dol get so angry and irritated about people buying from oet shops and don't seem to want to change that, in education or in legislation. it baffles me... steve, i'm sorry, but if it takes your sense of justice to be offended to shut down these kinds of operations, then yes. i think a lot of people will have that be the cost. privacy is all very well but we can't fight secrecy and cruelty without dotting 'i's and crossing 't's. would you rather have your privacy and know that the ability to shut down those people in 'the back of boonies' are churning our poorly bred pups, with no thought for the bitch's and dog's welfare? i'm not sure, privacy is valued differently to everyone, but i reckon that having someone come and tick off your dogs conditions (which i don't doubt are fantastic, i'm not saying you don't care seriously for you animals and future homes) is a small price to ensure that sentient animals don't live in cages and unhealthy conditions (mental and physcial). though i'm sure we could have legislation that doesn't include someone ticking you off, as long as you abide by council and state laws, unless you are breeding more than a certain number of bitches/ or have a certain number of entire females-and in that case, a tick would be all that's needed...? phew! sorry it is an essay!

yes there are already laws to be complied with, except that it is up to the council to act on them, not anyone else. the council, who is taking the money of registering the property as a domestic animal business. the council, who has nothing to gain by stopping it. the council who probably want to encourage 'business' in their area-they have to pay rates etc. the council, who don't even have educated animal people to conduct searches and ensure that everything is up to scratch! and this change that is being advocated is actually asking to stop the sale of animals, specifically puppies here, in pet shops, but i personally don't think that is the most effective way-it just pushes them furthur underground. for goodness sakes, the rspca is not out to get you. they did not organise the rally but they attended. they did not tell their staff they must or must not attend either. i attended of my own free will and volition. i agree that as an organisation the rspca should be altered and looked at-prosecuting and investigating should never be done by the same organisation. however, even though i don't get along personally with everyone i work with, i do believe that they aren't 'after' registered breeders, believe it or not, but many of these people that you are so happy to vilify as maniacs and power hungry beasts are just humans, who work everyday with animals because they love them and are just trying to do the right thing. they are often involved in the dog world just like you or me. also do not forget that the rspca in the various states are run by different people and to a different agenda/cause or code in each state. i for one would rather try to stamp out unethical beeding of companion animals for profit. 'oscar's law' is just a means to asking for that. nothing has been decided and it will have to be discussed and examined before anything went ahead. why on earth people think that they'll be stopped ethically breeding because of the size of a whelping box is a bit beyond me. nothing has been said about that. it is more about psychological enrichment and development, ensuring an animal's optimum physical and mental wellbeing. also included in sue's (the greens MLA) speech was intensive farming of animals such as pigs and chickens-there is NO way any self-respecting animal person could be ok with that situation? to allow battery hens and pig to be locked in such small pens is simply unethical and cruel- pigs are believed to be as smart as a 5 year old, smarter than many dogs and we woudn't accept it for canines. it was also mentioned that the sale of UNREGISTERED puppies overseas-their export- will be monitored or examined. so to me, it sounds like even though the purebred organisations aren't speaking up they are being considered... the truth is that we haven't enough legsialtion or penalities for animal cruelty in victoria or australia. we have plenty of legislation saying you can or can't do this, or they can do whatever they want-such as the dangerous dog amendment, but actually protecting animals? nup. most of the US has tougher penalties, something they did because of the clear, researched link between aniaml cruelty and serious crime. did you know that victoria was the first australian colony to have an animal welfare act, the Protection of Animals Act 1881-only thrity or so years after the us and britain. historically we are slow to act. all we want now is to try and rectify that. anyhoo, i've had enough of the argument. i'm not happy having to stand side by side with ALV but if i can be the moderate voice among those calling for change that i agree with, then i will. it is true, i am not a breeder, nor do i ever want to be a breeder-but we don't want to cancel our all breeders alltogether. i'm sure elements we regard as ethical, such as health testing your stock, will be included in any legislation that, at this time, is still a fantasy anyway.

exactly what i was thinking during your speech cosmolo. they're happy to whinge and whine that they'll get caught up in this, but they don't appear nor try to have their voice heard when the time comes, and they were happy enough to get into bed with the government for ONLY their members with the recent dangerous dog legislation. people were standing up for something today, but instead of coming along and doing what they could to spearate themselves from puppy farmers and unethical breeders, many decided-and most importantly their representatives certainly did-to hide away, ensuring that many of the ignorant public may confuse them with the 'bad guys' in the future. i loved the rally today, i loved that many people came out and stood up for those that haven't a voice, and did so with pretty much no publicity. could it have done with less speeches? yes-mainly because many of those that weren't used to speaking sounded less passionate than i'm certain they were and much of the same information was repeated. did i personally enjoy the song and poem? no, it was a bit too koom-bay-ah for me, but i appreciate that it hit an emotional chord with others. did i have a fantastic time? yes. were pretty much all of the speeches right on, leaving not too much grey area? hell yeah.

hey guys, i know there is some discussion about what consititutes a puppy farm, and to a non-breeder like me some of it (not all) reads as though some people are worried that registered breeders will be shit doen, and therefore will not support anything that tries to get this kind of practise outlawed. BUT this is on today and i think it is important to try and get the pollies to THINK about the issue at the very least. if we can get some exposure and get some of the public who aren't aware even a little more informed then surely it is a win? anyhoo, i've been writing emails often to ted baillieu as he is my representative and at least he is becoming aware, even if he isn't as educated about the issue as we need yet: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/baillieu...0918-15hac.html if he makes noise, hopefully the gov will too as it may become an election issue?

come on come on! (and we expect pics in the first post about the puppy in his new, fantastic home!)

my mini licks his paws, we thought it was a food allergy but ti doesn't seem to be. however my boy doesn't do it very badly, just his front paws and for maybe 5? mins a day, always at night, when we're watching tv and the cats have a routine of cleaning themselves at the same time, each other too and sometimes the younger cat licks the dog on the head and neck. and he pulls out any dried grass or whatnot in coat if i haven't got to it yet that night. so with my boy i think it is a beahvioural thing. i think he saw, growing up, that the cats did it and it relaxed them, and so copied them-he has copied other behaviours from them, he swats at things like flies and moves around to follow the skylights (like sleeping/resting, not chasing) and he also, no matter where he is, comes and stands around when i do the washing, as do the cats-they love the AM radio and i think the hold out hope for the drier to be turned on as their beds are in the laundry and the drier warms up the room a bit! i'd try washing them with an anti-fungal like quit itch first, or try calendula tea to soothe any irritated skin. if he is prone to ear infections then he might be prone to fungal infection in the moist area of the paw as well. make sure you dry his paws after walks if it has been at all damp and you might need to keep them cut pretty short.

yes, thank you for that inciteful remark oakway obviously there are issues with any reality in where 'oscar's law' was actually passed in it's current state. however, as laws rarely get through without amendments and we will never ban the sale of animals through shops (which is i think the element you have obbjections to, as i do. pushing things underground does not work) as economics speaks volumes compared to the desire for of 'moral' or 'rights' (just look at the poor gay section of society, they can't marry, which is effectively 'separate but equal' and we ALL know that didn't work for america-but members will be able to introduce private members bill's with greater ease so hopefully that issue will get more airing and discussion). the real importance in this rally is letting those in government know that we, as a public, are concerned about this issue. and most importantly to bring the situation to the attention of those in society who may never have thought about it or even noticed it, and there are many that fit into that category. the reality is that it is easier to start a law in motion than it is to stop it, but laws rearely go through in the form the idealists originally desired. unless you have a better, realistic, workable suggestion to the issue of puppy farming oakway, perhaps you should just take the bad with the good. nothing is perfect in life, especially to do with power and governing, and some of us are willing to sacrifice some things in order to get the more important aspects examined. (sorry, but i've had a gutful today. i've dealt with so many people who don't give a ^ about animals and don't seem to see or believe that they are sentient beings. so if i'm ranting inapproapriately, please ignore. but i'd rather be hopeful than bitter, so i will continue to pick myself up and continue down this path.)

where does one park in the city? i've only ever used public transport... i guess there are parking 'centres', infact there is one in chinatown, not too far from spring st. so i just answered my own question! hopefully there are thousands of people that turn out to this, if we can get on the news and really get into the public sphere then it may reach people who have no idea about puppy farming...