Rebanne

yes it could be a lot of money down the drain, so to speak. Hopefully both yours were ok and you get 4 from each!

Just because they are neutered doesn't mean the standard is lowered. However, as quite a few neuters would be older dogs, I would assume that age, and wear and tear, is taken into consideration.

That was a great photo. Just what Sam's looked like. Sam also discolated a toe twice, once getting off the couch. First time I took him to the vet as I thought he broke it, 2nd time I pulled it back myself. None of the others have ever sprung or discolated a toe, Miller has broke one though.

Two fees Erny, still need to be a member of the ANKC if you want to import or export

Nope, still won't sort the wheat from the chaff.

disagree, that's what life memberships are handed out for.

what about the boys, they have feelings too

you really know nothing about the dog world do you? If I left the ANKC my dogs would become unregistered and joining the MDBA would get me no where as they are not recognised worldwide. My bitches pedigree is tracable back something like 32 generations, it would be gone; poof; if I left the ANKC. No one would sell me semen to import, I would be unable to continue to breed registered pedigree dogs, if I wanted to keep breeding I would become a BYB. But there wouldn't be any point to that cause my breed aren't exactly popular. Why would you leave the ANKC ? cause Annie said I should if I wanted to prove I was ethical

couldn't agree more

you really know nothing about the dog world do you? If I left the ANKC my dogs would become unregistered and joining the MDBA would get me no where as they are not recognised worldwide. My bitches pedigree is tracable back something like 32 generations, it would be gone; poof; if I left the ANKC. No one would sell me semen to import, I would be unable to continue to breed registered pedigree dogs, if I wanted to keep breeding I would become a BYB. But there wouldn't be any point to that cause my breed aren't exactly popular.

How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. if we use selling to pet shops, ankc breeders can sell to PIAA pet shops and mdba members can't so therefore a greater burden is placed on mdba members as they are not allowed to sell to pet shops which reduces a point of sale for them just because something is allowed does not mean people take advantage of it, I'd wager most ANKC breeders don't sell to PIAA petshops due to their own personal ethics, they too then have have one less point of sale.

of course, if you are found out, and no it's not good if you break a COE you agreed to, but people do it all the time. Not every person is a good person. Just have to read the newspapers.

If the org that say no to pet shop selling ever finds out about it, then there might be consequences. Whose going to tell them? Not the person being unethical, that's for sure. i agree with you rebanne but for me it's about the ethos of the organisation and what the organisation sees as acceptable rather than whether the members are 100% compliant ok

If the org that say no to pet shop selling ever finds out about it, then there might be consequences. Whose going to tell them? Not the person being unethical, that's for sure.

The MDBA don't allow their members to sell to pet shops. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The world is not that simple. As I sit here typing this I could have a small fluffy, mated to the small fluffy down the road, whelping in the spare bedroom, cause I knew I would be broke after Christmas. A quick sale to the petshop pays the credit card bill I ran up buying Chrissie presents. Who's to know? Really? but the mdba states that it does not want its members to sell to pet shops which is the point. and my point is you wouldn't know, you are relying on that person to be truthful, to uphold the COE of the organisation they are a member of. Whatever organisation it is.

The MDBA don't allow their members to sell to pet shops. Doesn't mean it doesn't/couldn't happen. The world is not that simple. As I sit here typing this I could have a small fluffy, mated to the small fluffy down the road, whelping in the spare bedroom, cause I knew I would be broke after Christmas. A quick sale to the petshop pays the credit card bill I ran up buying Chrissie presents. Who's to know? Really? eta extra word

the other ANKC? there is only one ANKC eta you need to ask PP what registry their breeders are on

this not getting emails has only happened recently though as I hadn't noticed they had stopped. Thank you. Rebanne can you tell me why you arn't a member anymore um I joined mostly because I was new to this breeding caper and the MDBA sounded like it could be very helpful for me. I was hoping that being a member would make it easier to find homes for my pups as they are not that easy to place. But the MDBA never took off as I thought it would, the public has even less idea about them then they do the ANKC. As time went by, I leant more and more, from many different places, and by the time I did breed my 1st litter, any questions I had were able to be answered by other sources. And placing the pups was not a problem, there was only two. My ethics are pretty good I think, certainly meet the COE for ANKC and MDBA; I decided I didn't need to pay for a logo to prove I am ethical, same way as I won't be paying to be an "approved breeder" or what ever they are calling it with the ANKC.

when I joined I had to write a letter outlining my aims etc and that I agreed with their COE and yes pay a fee. If they didn't like what I wrote then I wouldn't have been accepted, nor obviously, paid a fee. I am not sure if things have changed since then. I don't recall anyone ringing me and I know no one came and inspected me, the dogs, the house, the kennels or asked for any evidence when I had my 1st litter nearly two years ago that I was actually following their COE. They trusted I was who I said I was and doing what I said I would do. And I did. Cause my ethics did/do pretty well match theirs. eta missed a word

Well that's the answer. Joe Public wants a dog and they want it now. Comes back to the poster who said most people dont care - I totally agree. They want a puppy now. Fight that little acorn. we need to revive the saying " all good things come to those that wait"

A website needs to be started with all the info in one place. And puppy farmers named. And it explained what a puppy farm is And started by someone with no assets and no cash as I am sure the puppy farmers would be bullies who would try to sue for defamation - even though truth is a defence. and who defines a puppy farmer? been plenty of debate on that issue alone. Plenty of websites devoted to telling people what a puppy farmer is, just not a lot of people read them or believe them. Only have to read the threads where people claim their crossbred dogs are regsitered breeds. people belive what they want to believe.

I like a flashy website but that's not the be all and end all I like the information they contain, up to me to research on whether it's the truth. I don't have a breed club, closest is the whippet and greyhound club of SA. Will wait for as long as it takes normally but put down 1 - 2 years. eta fix grammer

yes and those sort of breeders are everywhere

this not getting emails has only happened recently though as I hadn't noticed they had stopped. Thank you.

Annie99, imo, it all comes back to the buyer doing their research, because there is no easy way to sort out the good from the bad. Both sellers and buyers alike can cheat and lie, both sellers and buyers alike can get bitten on the bum by the "ethics" of the other person. It cuts both ways. There are pages on websites, advising puppy buyers what to look for in a good ethical breeder, there are pages listing bad buyers and what names/emails they are known to use. I was caught, many, many years ago by buying from a registered person who turned out to be a backyard breeder, no fancy internet sites back then. But it would be nice for novice puppy buyers to know that the breeders who are members of a certain org have been 'screened'. That's not something that the ANKC/State bodies do, so wouldn't the membership to MDBA give a better sense of confidence to the buyer and therefore an advantage to those breeders who are members? it goes back to my belief that no one organisations members would all be 100% above board, particulary as the organisation grows. You still have to do your research. If a member of the general public did approach a breeder member of the MDBA and didn't like or thought something was a bit suss, what they saw or heard or were told, unless they make the effort to report them to the head honcho's, no one would be any the wiser.