raineth

I too got my dog back with an untreated injury, an open wound to her leg, and she was a very different dog coming out than she was going in. Although cowering is not in her nature, she seemed - the best way I can put this is to say she seemed completely detached from humans, and it was some time (days) before she resumed her previous friendly outgoing attitude toward people. I didn't get a greeting from her when i picked her up - in stark contrast to the greetings I get when i pick her up from the (wonderful) kennels I use now. Fortunately I didn't get any obedience "training" done. I had only asked for her to be desensitised to cats, since they had a nice cat (in retrospect it may have been so chilled because it was drugged, or perhaps it was just a really chilled cat). Mainly I wanted her to have a bit of extra human contact and rewarding while I was away, so just picked cats as something I couldn't desensitise her to myself, for lack of a cat. Given the advertising is "non-harsh, reward based" I had expected proper desensitisation, as in dog moved gradually closer (under threshold) and heavily rewarded. That's the obvious assumption, you would think. Incredibly bad assumption on my part, my single most regrettable mistake ever in regards to my ownership of Jarrah. I failed her very, very badly in assuming the training was as advertised. It's difficult to forgive myself despite the fact that I realise self recrimination is not at all helpful. I'm just really lucky that Jarrah's innate temperament has allowed her to return to a balanced psychological state and the long term effects (3 years or so later I think) are only still evident in regard to her response to cats. Dogs don't dwell on the past, fortunately and luckily I don't come across too many cats, so we're OK really. I get the sense that although Jarrah's issues with cats do stem from that horrific trauma (table training?, whats with the leg injuries?) over the years cat confrontation seems to have developed into something of a rewarding activity for her (although it is a neurotic, compulsive sort of pleasure, like an unhealthy addiction, if that makes sense). She will seek cats out, there is definitely reward in there as well as great anxiety and stress. Jarrah is by nature confident, and so it's not unexpected to me that the fear has evaporated to a large degree, leaving this aftermath behind, especially given that cats are small, and she is smart enough to be fully cognizant of her size advantage. I don't understand it to be honest, I am just observing that her fear response (we still have hackles, this is not the pure cat-dog predatory response it should be for her) is all mixed up with a definite dose of pleasure in cat confrontation. Bear in mind when I write the above, I don't understand what's going on for Jarrah emotionally, and so what I have written here is pure speculation, there may or may not be elements of actual truth to my speculations. I am struggling for comprehension still. Despite my lack of understanding, I am very certain that my best possible outcomes do lie within McDevitt & Grisha's methodologies, these are both sensible methods that are helpful for a huge range of issues. Far out Wobbly that's really awful It's such a shame too as having done a vast array of desensitisation and counterconditioning on Digby (our other dog) it really is quite simple as long as you can control the environment, as they would have been able to. Such a shame that they couldn't honour what they said they would do If they scowl at you offer them a lick of the peanut butter jar :D I know what you mean though, it would be nice if everyone was understanding and supportive. Its one of those things, you don't know what its like until you've been in that situation yourself. Wow that is really impressive SL :) Congrats :)

Yonjuro you are obviously very well meaning and you have obviously spent a good deal of time on your post. Growing giant breed puppies is not like growing other puppies; they do have specific requirements. You have one chance to get it right and if you don't get it right things can be disastrous. You may be interested to google Hypertrophic Osteodystrophy for example, or OCD and Panosteitis. It is more indepth than feeding the correct amount of bone, muscle meat and offal, calcium:phosphorous is critical. I know for Great Danes the Royal Canin is considered by many a good choice. As such I would recommend the OP mainly question the breeder as to what to feed the pup. The breeder should be able to explain why the food they recommend is ideal for the puppy and you would expect that they've successfully raised puppies on that food before.

It was lovely, but the dog at approx. 4:06 completely blew me away!

same from me too.

I approached a complete stranger and their dog yesterday and asked them if they would help me with a BAT set-up for Delta and they said yes! Their dog is really relaxed around other dogs and is obedient, knows the basics well. So I'm really excited :D And this morning CU arrived so things are progressing nicely. I also have in mind a few more dogs and their people in mind who may be able to help me. The most difficult thing at the moment is that at both ends of our street we have dog problems. One end frequently has loose dogs as well as a very barky, growly, Kelpie and the other end has what I term the 'triangle'. The triangle consists of two very territorial Labradors (in opposite yards) and one house with 4 very territorial smalls.

hmmm I'm not sure Corie. I know my dogs haven't chipped their tooth from chewing bones, but that doesn't really mean anything. The only thing I'm careful about is throwing the bone out once they've chewed the large softer parts off (the round end bits) because I know the shin part of the bone is too hard to really be chewing. Does he chew very vigorously?

Thanks for that Wobbly, that's very insightful. And you're metaphor for LAT is very nice :) Poor Jarrah with those nasty pretend cats huh? That made me giggle a bit, she sounds like a character! I agree! Mainly because I think if we manage to notice it first, it doesn't get to surprise us in the first place, which gives us time to think about what to do next. I know one of the times it took me the longest to get my boy under threshold again was when an off lead dog came running up to us during a quick nighttime stroll - and I didn't see him coming at all, so my surprise built on his surprise and so on and so forth... In other news, B walked past a SWF and jack russel the other day, staring but on loose lead, so I'm really liking our progress. I have problems with him whenever we go off the suburban and onto walking trails (where most people in our area take their dogs) though so we're still working on it. I also find that if I've stopped walking to chat to someone for an extended period of time, he'll be hyper and pulling every which way once we get going again. Probably just an energy thing, although just something else I'd be working on... Also... does anyone have dogs here they have to leave alone during working hours? What do you do for them while you're away? Great progress with the SWF and Jack Russell Corie! The only thing I leave my two are big marrow bones. I used to leave Kongs and that sort of thing but I found it wasn't sending the right message: after Del would finish with the entertainment she would just keep looking for more instead of settling down. I think she had thought that the lesson was that outside time meant treasure-hunting and problem solving. I stopped providing those things and she learned to have a chew on her bone or go to sleep on her bed. Having said that, they seem to love things hidden in big cardboard boxes.

Ok I am really excited to give you all an update. I downloaded the BAT book to the Kindle on Friday. (I've ordered a hard copy of McDevitt's book too). Because I've got the BAT book I've started on that. I thought the logical place to start with BAT was with the dogs behind fences. We did our first session on Friday and I could see some positive changes already - but then the most amazing thing - was there was even hugely noticeable improvements when we began on the Saturday! This made me so excited that I am now completely fired up about it :D We came across three loose dogs on Saturday, one we were able to avoid but the other two galloped over to us from a distance of more than 100 metres and we couldn't get away. When this happened I felt quite despondent as Grisha had been writing about how important it is to not let these things happen. Obviously I am going to do my best to avoid these things happening but I think in my situation I am just going to have to do my best with it and keep plugging away. In the end I was just grateful that they were both friendly and that OH was with me and able to walk them back to their yard so the contact was not prolonged. On Delta's part she just sat there and let them sniff her but was very obviously way over arousal and shaking like a can of paint in a mixer. When one of the dogs was a bit pushy she shoved her snout at it. The best thing though was that she recovered from this really well. Her arousal went down within about 2 minutes and we were able to keep going and do a really effective BAT session with a dog that always gets her really worried. I am so proud of her. Yesterday I came across another loose dog but one I am reasonably familiar with and know that it pays no attention to other dogs unless they walk on its property (and obviously I wasn't going to do that). So we did three sessions with that dog as well from a distance of about 12 or 15 metres. So already I am really pleased with the results and her arousal levels are so much better now. So far so good!

Thanks Hankdog. Yeah our 'special' dogs certainly open our eyes so much more :) No problem I completely understand. Syaffyluv for your success with Ziggy!

Yes exactly I think its not just the fear, but the fact is that she likes other dogs so she is really conflicted thinking, 'this could be nice, or this could be scary - I'll watch super closely so I know which one its going to be'. I was watching the BAT video on the BAT website and actually I'm going to have to do quite some thinking about whether walking away from the dog will be rewarding to her not as she has that thing about not taking her eye off the dog. Because of this I might start with LAT. Yes whenever possible I walk her on the other side of the road to the other dog. There is a staffy that she's never met, but she's familiar with and he is the only dog we walk relatively close to, and she sits and longingly watches him go by, she would like to say hello to him. She is a lot like Eric I often read what you say about Eric and think that Delta is like him. She even does the nose pokes when she gets in a mood. She likes to knock things off things with her nose.

I'm so sorry Lhok Farewell gorgeous boy

Thanks Wobbly, yes it sounds like a really good first port of call, I'm definitely going to get it :) Well that's a fantastic bit of success you've had with the ridgeback incident Corie You must be feeling very proud of him :) I am in a really similar situation. We had some good friends here with dogs that our dogs used to hang out with but they moved away, and now I don't now anyone with dogs who we could use for set-up situations. Looks like I'll have to consider going back to dog club. That's a good point about the body language and is so true. I know when I walk with her I have a bit of a checklist in my head of making sure I'm walking confidently but relaxed and she responds well to this. But I'll look into ways to use it in those specific situations. When she sees another dog and sits it can honestly be like trying to move a lump of concrete if I rely on the leash alone. I call her to me in a loud but happy sort of voice and she'll quickly jump towards me, but immediately spin back around and sit with her eye on the dog. She is so worried about them coming up behind her. Part of me is laughing and going this looks so ridiculous as we move away in this bizarre hop and sit manner.

I think you have excellent insight Corvus. I'll go research BAT and yes I think you're right about the arousal problem. She is in general a very emotional dog. Interestingly she can be highly aroused yet still listening and taking treats. I haven't taken her for her walk yet today so when I do I'm going to look closely at her arousal levels. I guess the other thing is that conditioning works best when you can control the environment and when there are lots of offlead dogs this is just not always possible. Its funny because when we first got her she was very wild about cats (she has strong prey drive) and we got that under control really well although it did take a few months to get that result if the cat was running or playing. I still wouldn't trust her nose to nose with a cat (or put her in that situation). It must be that the fear that's the basis for her reaction to dogs is just a much more powerful force than prey drive which underlies her feeling towards cats. Yes I think I need to get control unleashed. and we'll focus very much on low arousal and low intensity. Whilst part of me is sad that she used aggression I was pleased to see her use it in a restrained sort of way. She was certainly very controlled about it and did not use one jot of extra force than she had to get this dog to back off. So I need to look at her body language and I need to catch her before she tenses and keep her at that level?

Hi guys :) I'd love to join you all in this thread. I have checked in on this thread from time to time since it started and have always found it interesting. But now I probably need to use it for myself and my dog Delta. So I'll introduce her: Delta is a four year old Great Dane. She is from rescue and we got her as an uncut diamond when she was 15 months. Working on impulse control has been an ongoing for us. She is drivey and has serious amounts of energy. Sometimes I read on here about people with their gun dog breeds or herding breeds and I think OMG Delta has more energy than that Anyway our problems with other dogs began when she was attacked on three separate occasions over a fairly short period of time by loose dogs (well actually one of them was tied to a letter box and broke its rope to get at her). Our suburb has a big problem with offlead dogs at the moment which is really compounding our problem. She doesn't bark or growl but she gets very stressed at the sight of another dog and will cry loudly. She is even like this now with dogs that bark at her from their backyard. Mostly when she sees another dog she will sit and stare at it and cry and shake. She is especially paranoid about turning her back on them (as two of the three attacks came from behind). With our other dog Digby, he came to us with quite a few fears and although it required a strict regimen, it was in reality quite easy to use conditioning to change the way he felt about things e.g., instead of seeing a camera and feeling sterrified, he now sees a camera and feels happy. I don't quite know why I can't get this happening with Delta. So far I have only succeeded in changing her behaviour but not her emotions. my problem: in the worst attack she experienced she defended herself. She grabbed the other dog by the skin on its neck (at he side of the neck) and held it back from her. She would let it go and when it went for her again she held it back from her again. I truly believe that if she hadn't done this she would have been badly injured. But now I am worried that she will be even more keen to use aggression, or that she may use it when she doesn't really need to (i.e. approached by a friendly offlead dog). I don't know if this is founded or not as since these things happened we have had friendly dogs approach us and she hasn't tried to have a go at them. But I get worried because of the size differential and then I'm sure my nerves rub off on her Anyway I am looking forward to sharing our experiences with you all, and hearing and learning about every one else's as well :)

I'm in agreement with you minimax. I think we often over think it. Unless I'm growing a giant breed (then I'm concerned about correct calcium:phosphorous); I think feed variety, make sure there is a protein source, a calcium source and a bit of carb and fibre. If your dog's constipated add more fibre - that sort of thing. I guess if you are having specific issues, then you need to look closer. But otherwise if doggie has other signs of being healthy, don't fret over things being exactly balanced.

Play can be used as a reward. My preference isn't to do that though. My preference is for puppies to be socialised with appropriate adult dogs. I guess the two dramas you need to watch out for is, one, the puppy learning that other dogs are way more fun than you and two, the puppy thinking that boisterous OTT rudeness is how to interact with other dogs. So JackC if you keep in mind that what you want pup to learn is that you are the most fun thing in the world, and that he needs to have manners and be able to focus on you then you will be fine :) Edit for autocorrect He gets a good mix of both, my mum has two dogs who have been quick to put him in his place when he's being too much, and I am quite happy with that. He also is very careful with the little pups who didn't want to play and totally steered clear, so I think he's just matching his new friends. He doesn't jump all over other dogs, but this little guy was inviting it. Can't blame either too much. And like I said, he still recalled with the promise of a decent treat, he's good on the lead on the street and we do lots of games and training at home, so we're very popular. I agree, but I love to think he can still get a lot of joy from other things. Lots of training ahead regardless, but so far we're all very happy. sounds good then :) Justas long as you are aware that a lot of puppy schools do more harm than good and you can assess whether yours falls into that category or not. Sounds like things are going on the right track :) now Like Jackz said..... back to more Gus photos

As long as It's controlled play. Most puppy pre-schools aren't even done by dog trainers, so It's usually not very productive or positive. fair enough comment, the school my koda goes to is run by a wonderful trainer with over 16 years experience and there is controlled play time in that session :) You should be fine then :)

Play can be used as a reward. My preference isn't to do that though. My preference is for puppies to be socialised with appropriate adult dogs. I guess the two dramas you need to watch out for is, one, the puppy learning that other dogs are way more fun than you and two, the puppy thinking that boisterous OTT rudeness is how to interact with other dogs. So JackC if you keep in mind that what you want pup to learn is that you are the most fun thing in the world, and that he needs to have manners and be able to focus on you then you will be fine :) Edit for autocorrect

Steph, sounds great, that is the whole point of pup school, or should be, is to get the dogs out and about and meet other dogs and experience other things dogs need to experience, learn what goes on in our world so when he is older he knows all about it and when needed by us will ignore something that may be interesting cause we need his attention for what ever reason, its not about hard out training at this age, small training and working up of course, recalls and attention etc but letting the dog be a dog is what he needs right now and it sounds like he is excelling at it :D Actually it sounds like a horrid (yep unfortunately fairly typical) puppy pre-school where it's just a free-for-all Gus is absolutely gorgeous! Now I hate to be a downer, but I really think Minimax has a point. With puppies you need to start the way you want to continue. If in the future you want him to be able to be calm around other dogs, to be able to walk past other dogs without acting like a pork chop, and not to be a bully, you have to teach him the rules from day one. That's not to say he'll be perfect from day one. But It doesn't sound like he is learning to focus on you and learning to be calm around other dogs... But I could be wrong and you could be just giving a colourful description of the situation?

I agree with Clyde and Oso, Baby's safety is the number one priority. ETA sorry that your are having to go through this

oh no How is your baby? I hope he's ok?

That's great news about GAP

So happy to hear that Bazza is doing better

Did I misunderstand or did they say jogging is bad for Golden Retrievers? I thought adult golden retrievers would be great candidates for jogging I agree that anyone would be really interested to have you on board knowing the commitment you have :)

Chezal, I'm in Wagga and the Uni vets here are excellent. If you would like him to see the uni vets I would happily collect him from yours, take him to the vet and bring him back to you. This might work out with Dmayma's generous offer? It would have to be Tuesday or later though as I have an exam on Monday. I can understand if you don't want to, as you don't know me at all, but PM me if you want to take up my offer. I am in such awe of what you have done for Nala and these puppies :)