raineth

Sounds like they need to implement the tradesman's rule of 'measure twice, cut once'. You think there would be some double checking of facts before an animal is PTS to prevent problems like this from occurring.

I'm a bit late to this thread but bellske, I would say that you might need to practice more in the backyard and in the house if you are needing that many repetitions and still the message isn't really getting through. In your house and backyard she should be relaxed enough to learn loose leash walking. When she is reliable there, just try your front yard. Then when she is reliable there just try the footpath around your house. It's really good that you are being so consistent As I said your message just might not be getting through because it is too much for her in that environment; your training is having to compete with all the exciting sounds, sights and smells out on the walk.

I'm enjoying reading about all your dogs and what everyone likes in a dog. I guess for me I would be happy with getting either a Digby or a Del again, or something in between. I wouldn't want a dog that was really never up for a cuddle or being close; and I probably wouldn't want a dog that was very needy. Del is quite good insofar that she is fairly independent really: she is happy to be sleeping or doing her own thing a lot of the time, but when it comes to interaction, she puts everything into it, and she's always up for it. I do like that Digby is quite uninterested in others as it just makes life easier for me as those things aren't really temptations for him. I can walk him through people without worrying he will approach them. If I walk Del in close proximity to people I have to ask her to heel or she will mug them What do you mean by this Pers? Do you mean affection on their terms, or dogs that like to be on your lap?

In my suburb, most prolific are the small terriers of the mini foxy, Jack Russell, or Aussie variety (but not of the pedigree/pure variety by the looks of them). Followed by the small, mostly white and fluffy dogs (also of indiscriminate breeding). For the dogs that are clearly a breed, the biggest number are the GSDs. Some of them look to be show line, others byb, and others look to be working line. These are followed closely in number by the Border Collies. I guess after that would be Labradors and Siberians. There are also a few pure poodles around (mini and toy). There rest are mainly herding mixes, pigging mixes and Staffy mixes.

I have two dogs here who are kind of polar opposites in some ways. Delta is so affectionate. Pretty much every interaction involves her communicating how much she loves you and wants to be close to you. She's like this with all the family, and is especially affectionate with anyone who is sick. My boy dog, Digby is more the 'strong and silent' type. He enjoys just being with you and the odd belly scratch. Every time you look at him his tail goes thump, thump, thump. But he is not demonstrative like Del. So I'm wondering, what sort of dog do you have? Do you like the super affectionate snugglers or the strong and silent types? Do people think that these traits are generally related to other temperamental traits? I know Digby is naturally more calm and lazy and Del is more emotional and seems to feel emotions more strongly, She generally thinks a lot of things are really wonderful and can be a bit of a "sunshine and lollipops" kind of dog. ETA haha snugglers not smugglers!

Well done on ignoring all the sensible arguments against walking your dog off leash and pretending as though everyone is exaggerating. I will outline some of those points for you again. 1. It is breaking a law. 2. People can't know from looking at you how under control your dog will be when they walk by. 3. To your argument that walking off leash is about having a connection with your dog: walking your dog on a leash doesn't mean they want to spend any less time with you, or that your relationship is somehow less. 4. You can't always predict how your dog will react in every situation, nor can you always see everything that is going on or about to go on in your environment. 5. If a dog does attack your dog you won't have a leg to stand on, because your dog should have been on lead. My dogs have been attacked quite a few times, and I do find that frightening. Maybe you wouldn't find that frightening? But most people do and that's why people get upset at people not having their dog on leash. FYI the only time I kicked a dog was when it was latched on to my dog's neck and I shouldn't have bothered because it did absolutely nothing. I wouldn't hit or otherwise be physical with someone's dog unless it was actually biting mine. Personally I wish you a reactive dog at some point in your life. Having a reactive dog is a truly educational experience and will give you insight into why leash laws are so important. :) I don't say this in a nasty way, either. I just think that reactive dogs have a lot to teach us dog owners.

Gosh she's just amazing looking isn't she!? And with a temperament to match by the sounds of things :)

Stats are pretty meaningless, raineth :). It takes only a few seconds for lives to be ruined. well yes that was the point I was making :)

You also can't always predict what your dog will do. Just because your dog has obeyed a command every time you've given it, doesn't actually mean he/she will obey it next time. Management is such an important part of owning a dog, it is just as important as training and socialisation. There are a couple of dogs around here who are frequently off lead and I would most of the time they've been fine. One lives very close to us and we've passed her nearly every day for the last 3 years and she ignores us. Yet three times, for reasons I can't be sure of, she hasn't ignored us. Once she ran at us and crossed the road in doing so, and another time she sprang out at us from behind a tree and gave my Dane such a shock. Once with my other dog she got into a crouch and froze and it was a very scary moment she was completely silent, but very much looked like she was about to attack, she was very serious and I had never seen her like that before, ever. Her owner called her back just in time and I couldn't budge my boy who was frozen in fright. As I said that is three times in about 3 years and she is out every day for a couple of hours. This means that she is unreliable approximately 0.27% of the time (or reliable 99.73% of the time - which would generally be considered pretty good) yet those times she has been unreliable could have ended very badly and were certainly very stressful for me and my dogs.

But you can still have a connection with your dog when its walked on lead? I walk my dog on lead and I still have an enjoyable time with them, and feel very much like we are sharing time together. Just because you have a physical connection with your dog (a leash) doesn't mean that you stop having any other sort of connection with them I have one dog who has little interest in greeting other dogs and people and he has very good recall. We often spend time together in our front yard (which is unfenced) and I always have his bright orange long line on, even though he probably doesn't need it as such. But I do it because it is a back up, if something frightens him or he does one day does feel like saying hello to someone and if he does happen to ignore me, then I have a physical back up. It also reassures anyone walking by because they can see clearly he is not just loose in our front yard.

Thank heavens for the dog and the owners becoming suspicious, otherwise who knows how long it could have gone on for. That poor little baby.

Yes he is, to date he has ran face first into a garden shed while chasing bubbles, walked into a pole whilst on a walk because I was talking to him and he was trying to score a treat, to which after he fell over he rolled into a mud puddle, He play bowed to a lamb shank instead of eating it and he also play bowed then jumped sideways into a gutter while trying to get a statue to play with him oh and how could forget, almost everyday I have to go help him roll back over because he has forgotten that he is laying on the top of a shallow hill and will go to rub his back then roll over and slides down the hill then gets stuck on his back against the fence. Treble is a bit doofy yes.. --Lhok Gosh he sounds hilarious! I always thought Akitas would be quite serious, but he just sounds so goofy! He is an adorable boy Lhok :)

Hmmm, I really think that would be too long as the little poodle probably needs to do a wee every couple of hours. You could make him a secure spot outside for the day using a puppy pen. Include water and some chew toys. Make sure there is a bit that is sheltered. I would work on getting pup used to spending some time in the pen in the lead up to Friday :)

There were four dogs up when I went; 3 small scruffers and a GSD.

Its not entirely true that dogs aren't allowed on school grounds. They are allowed with permission. Mine have gone up before when pre-arranged with the teacher. Otherwise we wait outside the school. In this incident they chose to give permission to other dogs, just not MUP's dog because of the way he looks.

Yep, especially the way that lady dealt with it, making a big spectacle of it all. I'm glad the lady with the Kelpie gave you some support :)

That sort of stuff happens most days with me. When you have a very large dog with a large boofy head most people don't see that its behaving well, all they see is a potential danger.

I sought of got the impression from that article that it was talking about a case where it had been used as a replacement for proper socialisation of the puppies. If that's the case I'm not surprised it wasn't very effective! I can't imagine anything could really replace proper socialisation experiences. It would be interesting to compare pups that had still had the normal socialisation experiences and then either had or not had neurological stimulation as well.

That is a very powerful and moving project.

Oh bugger I'm really sad to hear that Corvus. But you've gotta do what you gotta do :) Let me just say that I can't tell you how helpful what you were saying about arousal has been to me and Del :) I also really appreciate how generous you are with your knowledge and generous putting in a lot of time reading and responding to people's posts :) Although having read Staffyluv's post maybe you might want to give the 'ignore' option a go?

all this talk is reminding me of another crazy comment I got at dog club. I was there with my Dane and a lady said to me "your kids must love her" and I agreed. Then she said "they must have so much fun riding her and climbing all over her!" I was a bit shocked and said they (my kids) would never dream of doing any such thing to her! and she replied: "what's the point of her then?"

Wow that's really interesting about the Weim's blackjaq! I knew they had been used for guarding as well as hunting but I didn't realise the extent of it and how they are still used in Germany. I found your theory really interesting. It certainly makes a lot of sense. It could very well be in some cases that the attempt to make them more suitable as pets may have mistakenly led to a selection for nervousness instead. I know that the Great Danes around Victorian times ( I think it was) were renowned for their aggression.

Blckjaq, I often mull over the same sort of conundrum. I wonder if the demands for the average pet dog today don't necessarily sit with the temperaments espoused in the breed standards. But at the same time would it be right to change the temperaments bred for in each individual breed just to suit a predominantly pet market. I don't know. I guess good arguments could be made for both. In the breed I have taken most interest in, Great Danes, I do personally think that breeders should be breeding with pet market in mind as I don't think there is any call out there whatsoever for people wanting Danes to hunt boar with. I think the GD breeders who take temperament seriously are keeping both the temperament characteristic to the breed, while also considering its suitability for the pet home. I sadly still hear story after story though of Danes with anxiety problems, particularly separation anxiety and reactivity. As this is not called for in a traditional temperament and certainly not suitable to a pet home, it suggests to me that maybe temperament isn't being prioritized by some GD breeders. Clearly though many other breeds are still divided into those used for original purpose such as herding dogs, but still a lot of people own these dogs just as pets, not using them for their original purpose or a new purpose such as agility. So I guess it would be up to each individual breeder to decide whether they should prioritise traditional temperament, or 'pet temperament'. The other example I can think of (although I know less about it) is the Scottish terrier. I think you could largely say that their purpose these days is that of being a pet, and I believe many breeders over the last few decades have selected for a less dour temperament. I know Sheridan would have a lot to say on this topic!

There are a lot of funny stories here but the idea of tossing up between a Malinois and Mastiff really has me laughing :laugh: Well you know they do have similarities... they both have paws for instance, and they can both be a fawn colour... I'm sure there must be more :laugh:

Hankodie, I know you are probably a little extra concerned because you are wanting to avoid Hank developing the reactivity that you are going through with Odie. I don't know if You've got Grisha Stewarts BAT book or video yet, but it does have a bit on how you can raise a puppy to avoid reactivity. It might be something good for you to look at :)