Agility Dogs

Hi Jules, You are going to hate me for saying this and I will not be offended if you disagree, but I really think that most dogs with perceived 'speed issues' like you have with Brock and I have with CK are not really speed or motivation issues. I think they often are understanding issues. IMO because they are soft dogs who really want to please they are hesitant to take the risks and get crazy like other dogs might. (Xena vs CK for example). That said have a look at some of the quick/drivey dogs when their handlers try for independent contacts or something similar (like Xena atm - this is our current project) - the picture looks different for the dog so the dog slows down. With only your description to go on it sounds very much to me that your dogs have a good understanding of the activities/equipment at a basic level, but when they are put under any pressure they are not fully across what you are asking for. Someone else mentioned lumping earlier - Big Rocks are harder to climb and any change in the picture can be a big rock to a dog. Watching green dogs trying to do 270's without a lot of support or baby sitting is a really good example of what I am talking about. For a young dog the handler taking one less step towards the 270 can be a real challenge to their understanding and often you get one of two behaviours - wrong course (Xena in times gone by) or shut down and walk (CK to an extent still.) I've used my dogs as an example, but there are numerous other dogs I train with that have the same issue - as they become more confident they get quicker. Desire, Understanding, Speed....... Just a thought that it may not be the handling system. I know you are putting in a lot of effort - maybe back off on that a little and make what you are doing special. Only do 2 or 3 reps a day and get them doing something else for a change. Just make training a game with a ball that happens to involve an obstacle every so often. (This is working with CK.) Change the picture for the puppies (and you) so that agility becomes exciting, not the every day. This is working with CK and might just be a different perspective on your problem. FTR - yes, I am pretty quick on my feet for an ageing runner, but if CK is 'off' it doesn't matter how quick I am he won't chase me - he has to be interested and understand what I am asking for. Oh - there's another thing. The level of reward he gets mirrors the effort he puts in - if he gets it right, but is slow he might only get a pat, but if he is rocketing he gets the maximum reward. Hope that helps. Cheers Tony

Well done - I always admire obedience people who can get that level of focus for those activities. I just don't have the patience. As for the Royal - AWESOME!!

:D You get the picture!! CK got his BAAD title today - finally. It wasn't the most inspiring of runs - he thought it was a bit hot poor petal, but he did get quicker as the run went on. Still, it is a lot better than a few months back! He also came second in gamblers and ran clean(ish) in Jumpers without weavers, although after saying hello to the judge he ended up 7 seconds over time in that one.......... Xena did a good job and came second or third in JWOW, and managed a card in that as well. The other games didn't treat us quite as kindly so that was it for her today, but all in all a great weekend for the two of them!

Well done everyone - I really wish I had the patience to trial in obedience, I really want to, but can't stick with it for long enough. We had some great runs last night. CK started like a train and decided he was a Kamikaze in a former life - launching off the dog walk and then crashing THROUGH a long jump - no, I'm not sure how you do that either - to have just one fault in his first two runs. (more proofing - oh well.) Then we got it together in our last run of the night - starters jumping. He got his second starters card and a win in the class. He's starting to get quick - a lot of people who haven't seen him in flyball or frisbee have doubted it when I've said he's going to be fast, but a lot of them changed their mind last night! This is his good run for the night. Xena had her first outing after getting her SAAD title last night. I had a couple of handling malfunctions and she chose not to listen to me at one point, but we did have two really good runs in Open B Agility and Advanced Agility - to think 3 months ago she couldn't get ONE contact on a course, it makes it so much easier to stand on a start line and not have to worry about whether or not she is going to leap off the a-frame. They are still slow because I'm making her wait at the bottom until they are 100% proofed, but I'm not too concerned about time right now - I'd rather get it right and then focus on time next year. These are her two runs....... Have to run - we are off to play again today. Mostly games for Xena and CK has 4 runs. Enjoy the day everyone!

TL - No need to apologise. I wasn't having a go at you, just the person who made you feel ignorant really. Huski, I'm not denying the need for a dog to be 'on'. BUT, I really don't think a dog should need to be cued verbally or be hyper to be able to work effectively. I've seen Seita's dog training and it is awesome to watch. Not criticising that, nor the method. If you'd seen my dogs work you'd know what I am talking about. They are VERY quiet and NEVER bark in a flyball ring (unless they are sitting out!LOL) and don't sit at the start line of an agility course and paddle their feet. I think both cases are dogs in drive, but not knowing what to do with it. Really I think we agree - for a dog to perform at 100% then it needs to be in drive. We just differ in our opinion of how the dog should get there. I guess I just expect drive when I ask them to play, I don't feel I should have to cue it. The drive that I build is based on the level of reward they get for a certain activity, not on a cue word. Same, same, different. T

(and I think you do this too AD with CK) if my dogs are going to bring me a tug toy from the box, I usually engage in that because I want to encourage interaction with me. Yep, sure do. On the other hand if Xena brings me the toy she is told to put it back in the box until I feel like playing. I DON'T want to encourage any more drive out of that one. I also want a dog that when I rip out a tug they jump off their beds and say "yay - PLAY time!". Now that helps in the agility ring when we can have a massive tug on a toy, I drop it next to my feet at the start line, and I know my dog will focus on the course and not on the toy I just dropped Yep, agree again. Now, having told the world how it should happen I just have to hope the two of them know it is time to work over the weekend! Have a good weekend everyone.

I agree with LP - my dogs are always working - if I ask for something I expect to (and usually do) get it. We don't distinguish between working and not. I've never really understood why people ask for their dogs to start listening to them. for me it should be a given.

A lot of people prefer 'human grade', but I'm just as happy with minced frames etc from Lenards. Puppies seem to be doing fine on it as the base of their 'mince mix'. (They get bones/frames from roos, fish and chickens 3 out of every 4 days and then the vege/mince mix on the other day.)

That very eloquently sums up what I was thinking. If one of my dogs 'defies' me it is generally because there is something better on offer or becuase I thought they knew, but with the benefit of hindsight I find out they didn't.

Have you considered using other methods to teach loose lead walking? Perhaps the check just isn't the right way to go for your pup. Maybe clicker training might be more effective in this case? Otherwise, when I was taught to use a check chain they told me that I wouldn't necessarily harm my dog with it in the wrong position (like you have described), but it would not be as effective. If you are concerned have a chat to one of the people at your club with a bit more experience.

It's different for each sport we play really, or at least I turn up at each with a different mind set. Flyball is just a hoot for the puppies and I love the team spirit and the overall spirit on the day. It is competitive, but more in a friendly way than in a serious manner. (In Qld at least, can't talk for other states here.) Disc/Frisbee is because I like the people for the most part and the dogs have an absolute ball as well. Agility is a little more serious. It's still fun for me and for the dogs, but I do judge our progress as a team by how we do in the agility ring - not so much in terms of titles or wins (although both are nice!), more in terms of how the dogs run and their understanding of my cues and how I manage the courses.

:D Southside are really good, we trained there for a while, but it jut wasn't for me. (Obedience that is.) That said for anyone else, don't discount doing your obedience training at a really good agility club IF obedience trialling is not your goal. You still get the control (or at least a relationship that allows you to get the bet from your dog) and learn all the basics like sits and stays etc, you just don't get the nose not coming off your knee etc. For me it's just a lot more fun than paddock bashing and drilling the dogs.

If you don't want to do formal obedience you could always try the Agility Dog Club of Queensland who train at Tivoli on a Sunday afternoon/night. They have a really good foundation program that focusses on your relationship with your dog and working with them. The corrections they use are not at all harsh with the focus being on positive/fun mehtods. Just a thought....... cheers

Those Winpara puppies!! Very nice run.

They flow really nicely - can be really tricky in parts, but even when they do get that way there is a flow for the dog if the handler gets it right. VERY few judges set courses with sequences that are hard on the dog physically so to speak - before they are allowed to let loose on the competitors with courses they are reviewed by a senior judge.

AWESOME!! WELL DONE!

We had a great day out at WAAG's agility trial yesterday. Xena was up first and got a card in Open A jumping which kept us in the Medallion Stakes round at the Grand Prix in October!! WOO HOO! Not bad for her first year down there. We had a couple of ordinary runs during the day with just one fault in each because of my handling both times she knocked bars. But then we finished off with a pass in the Power and Speed game - you run the first part of the course (Power) untimed and all faults count towards your time in the second part of the course (jumping - Speed) which has to be run clean and within time. Finally the big one I had hoped for - we got a quali in Intermediate jumping - she has not qualified for her SAAD (Senior Australian Agility Dog) which is roughly equivalent to Excellent Standard in ANKC trials. Now we can compete in the Advanced ring - more challenges for us!! CK had a pretty good day as well, but we missed his one quali for the day in Elementary jumping. The upside is he hit both his contacts in Starters and then had fun on the jumping without Weavers course, but didn't quite make it for a card. All in all very happy and looking good for Macksville!

We came across a guy one morning who must have read something along those lines. His Airedale (sp?) decided it needed to eat my border collie AFTER he had dropped the leash. He was a little less than impressed to have his dog handed back to him by the scruff of the neck 3 ft off the ground - along with a mouth full of abuse. I couldn't believe anyone in their right mind would drop the leash of a dog they know AND ADMIT is aggressive. Idiot said 'oh, but he's aggressive on lead' and couldn't work out why I was upset that his dog had jumped on mine and pinned him down. It would have to be set up and incredibly well proofed before it could be considered anything like a good idea.

They could also try Urban dog training at Carina. (They can just google it.) The trainers are pretty good/have a good understanding of dogs and their course structures seem to be well thought out. They are a little more expensive than a club though and not really competition focussed. Agree whole heartedly with your comments about Coltrandi (my dogs were initially 'trained' there as boarders) and the guys at Mt Gravatt (obedience, not agility). I had a long chat to him one day (obedience guy - from Cherokeee out at Goodna) and they are VERY harsh in their approach - quite similar to Coltrandi. RSPCA also have quite a good beginners program at Fairfiled - if you don't want to advance to competition. I've also trained at Southside. While I didn't find it was for me (I didn't think their methods suited my dogs) most of the trainers are pretty good and most people would get a lot of benefit from it. Hope that helps. cheers

In my VERY limited experience with ANKC agility I noticed that there were more bars being knocked than in ADAA (Not NADAC) trials. I'm not sure if this came down to the nature of the course (some are not pretty) or whether it was the way in which the handlers worked their dogs. The ANKC guys I saw didn't tend to give their dogs really good information (body/positional cues) and were too busy trying to 'tell' their dogs what to do on the course (over, over, over, slow down etc etc) and as a result the dogs were making last minute decisions a lot of the time. The courses probably contributed to it, but the course shouldn't really matter that much if the handler understands the job and communicates it clearly to their dog IMO. I know when my dogs run clean it is because I have run clean, have got my timing right and not confused them (or in spite of the fact that I haven't - they can be very fogiving!) Flame suit on........

I think you've made a really good decision about the dog parks. My boy was monstered a couple of times in a dog park early in his life and I learned a valuable lesson that socialisation is not throwing dog in together and hoping for the best. As a result of his early experiences he has ZERO TOLERANCE of rudeness from other dogs, he will run around happily with other dogs, but the minute one jumps on him, grabs his collar or commits any other 'offence' then they are told off immediately and quite forcefully. He's a 19kg BC and the last time he told off another dog it was a 35kg Weim that didn't know what hit it - no damage, just a lot of noise. CK came away when he was called and they are now friends and the Weim has a few more manners. That said I try really hard not to put him in situations where he feels or is likely to be threatened. He does agility 2 or 3 times a week and plays flyball and frisbee so he is around other dogs all the time, we just don't let him interact with dogs he doesn't know or who don't know him until we are comfortable they will get on. Keep up the good work - at first it feels like they are missing out, but in the long run you will be proud of your puppy and it will all seem normal!!

Hi Anastascia, There are a few clubs around the place, but if you are looking to do obedience, but with a view to doing agility down the track I can recommend PADS. Have a look here....... http://www.pads.org.au/ I haven't trained there, but know some of their instructors quite well and they do a very good job of teaching young dogs and turning them into great agility dogs. They are positive trainers. cheers

We had our club's trial yesterday - was a massive day. I was there for almost 12 hours by the end of it all! Still, our first trial at the new venue and it all went without anything more than a couple of nervous moments early in the day when we thought we had mismeasured the rings. ;) The puppies ran really well on the day. Xena got an intermediate agility card and second place in jumping (i think) I thought it might be interesting to contrast this with her first clean run! CK also ran pretty well (for him ;) ) We got an ugly pass in starters agility on the first run of the day and 1 fault in jumping, but at least he managed to finish the courses with weavers in them for a change!! This is his jumping run - when he's good he's very very good, when he's not...............it proves I'm awful!! Even CK is improving......... Have a good week everyone! Cheers

I liked the bit about the test being cancelled if at any point during the test the temp reaches 24 deg. Guess that's why we don't run them that often in Qld! T