Agility Dogs

Not saying there is anything wrong with it or that people shouldn't want it for their own dogs. It's just not something I want for my dogs at this point in time. They need to be able to interact without becoming reactive when it is not warranted, but I don't need them to run around and play. I do see other dogs do it after flyball every week and they do have a ball. My two can join the bunch if I want them too, in fact we sometimes put them in the mix if there is an over the top youngster who needs to meet my boy for a reality check. (CK has taught a number of our younger dogs to respect others - he is very firm, but appropriate - what I had to work on was his judgement of what needed to be corrected and what was OK.) But I choose to leave them in the car or do shaping exercises with me while we have coffee. They don't even know that the other dogs are there. IMO I was anothromorphising when I wanted my dogs to play with others when I first started out with them. Again, I'm not saying everyone else is, I'm saying I was wanting it for the wrong reasons. Has been a very interesting discussion - thanks everyone for sharing your point of view.

AWESOME

To be honest I probably don't have enough experience to answer that one! I only know that I have spent a LOT of time working to curb Mr CK's chase/herding instinct and that Xena has never been interested in other dogs from the time she was six weeks old. again.

No. The two of them don't really play that much together any way. They either sleep or play with me. I've said it a lot recently though. If I had my time over I would still only have one dog with another to come in 12 or 18 months from now.

LOL. I guess that's why I love BC's - I'm about as obsessive as they are!! Kenzie and Xena could ignore each other while they play with me. There is another dog at flyball exactly like Xena - it is funny as a play. The two of them are so TOTALLY focussed that they can be playing the same game and not even know it. They will both chase a ball and then shy away from it when they realise the other is chasing it too - VERY funny to watch. Any time your little girl wants a holidy you can have the big boofy sook as a replacement. (Although that is changing too. )

Fair question. In my dogs case I don't think I am denying them anything. It's horses for courses and may be a result of their upbringing/circumstances, but neither of them enjoy the company of other dogs and certainly don't miss it if they don't have it. It has taken me 3 years to get CK to the point where he will easily tolerate and ignore other dogs. That said, if another dog interrupts us when we are working (Like the dobe did 5 times at agility the other week) he is FAR from impressed and will look to me to ask if he can tell them off. He loves to say hello to his 'friends' at flyball and agility, but is not interested in playing and gets stressed if we let him free run with the other dogs. Xena too just has no interest in playing with other dogs. She will go and find a tennis ball or another toy and drop it incessantly at my feet. She will not run and play with other dogs if given the choice. I don't think that 'performance' dogs need to be kept away from other dogs to be successful sports dogs, but I certainly don't think they should be allowed to play with other dogs until they have a bomb proof recall and can work under distraction. All that said, when I get our next pup I won't be encouraging her to play with other dogs, other than the two I have now. I guess I've just had a couple of bad experiences and don't see the need for them to do it.

I guess this is where my head is at.

I can understand if you have more than one dog, but what if you have only one? Would you never, every let your dog play with another? I guess I just don't see the point. I don't ever let them off lead around other dogs - except each other - unless they are working and focussed on me. If I only had the one then s/he would get to greet and interact with other dogs at flyball and agility, but other than that I don't see any reason for them to play. I'm not saying that it's not a good thing if that is what you want, I'm just trying to understand the mind set. For me, yes, I did want it when I first got my dogs, but I think that was more because I was anthromorphising than anything else. Again, I'M NOT SAYING EVERYONE IS LIKE THIS, but I am interested in other's rationale.

For the record - I have worked long and hard to get my boy to a point where he is now comfortable around other dogs in most situations. The problems started when he was monstered as a young pup by another dog in a dog park - yes, my fault, I didn't know any better. These days I'm not interested in having either of my dogs play with other dogs. A greeting is OK and I expect them to be polite to other dogs given that they are around others every day of the week, but I don't want them to play, I want them focussed on me. BUT.........More and more lately I been wondering why is there this fixation with having dogs 'play' with each other? Why do you want your dog to play with other dogs the don't know and what is the benefit in it?

After mentioning it in the health thread I thought others might be interested in CK's new life from a training perspective. Background is that CK is a soft BC, not particularly high drive, unless he is seriously turned on, then it can be a handful. He will 'shut down' if he doesn't understand something - fair enough, but what we do need to fix is the shutting down when he doesn't want to do something. Mr CK has had several changes to his lifestyle recently. Basically: 1. We are doing a lot more shaping to build his confidence (now that I know how to do it properly). 2. If I tell him to do something that he knows how to do he does it before moving onto the next activity - if that means tugging before the next flyball run and he decides not to we leave the field before and he tugs before we go back. This one is the one that seems the harshest because they 'shut down'. This shut down is not really a shut down - it is either a lack of understanding (my bad to be avoided) or it is a manipulation because the other activity is more rewarding (too bad for him from now on). Basically by that I mean that he 'shuts down' and won't tug because he would rather do another 4 second flyball run than tug - not my problem, I want him to tug. They soon realise that shutting down is not an option for them. 3. Linked to the above he is ONLY rewarded for fast, crazy behaviour. I have taken a lot of the 'controls' off his life and replaced them with demands for speed - just different, less stifling controls really. eg: I don't put his food down, go inside and make a cup of coffee before he is allowed to eat it. I make sure we have a good game with the food as a reward for speed. Remember, this is a dog who spent the 4 to 12 month period of his life either confined or being kept quiet as he recovered from an injury - I need to change his mindset. 4. When we are training he is only coming out of his crate for VERY short periods of time and when he does he works very intensely. (Ruff Love calls for them to be crated all the time - this is the one area we have relaxed since we are at work 10 hours a day!) He is crated for the day and a half before a trial though - OH is home on Fridays. In just 3 weeks it has been an amazing transformation from a dog that was at times semi-interested at best and would not work to a dog that is bouncing around the place pushing me to play. Saturday night's trial was a revelation. I had the dog that I wanted - he was quick(ish), he was happy and he was eager. Occasionaly we are still having a discussion about who's right and who's wrong, but in general our relationship has improved out of sight (and it wasn't bad to begin with). Now that we are on the right track I can only hope there are much better things ahead!!

Yeah, I really don't think it is a deficiency issue, but Linda Orton-Hill was super keen for me to have the tests done. I'm more of the opinion (and she shares it) that they are soft dogs, but they are also VERY manipulative dogs because they are so smart. (I'm sure the calcium is helping to a degree, but the behaviour modification is much more the key.) Mr CK has had several changes to his lifestyle recently. Basically: 1. We are doing a lot more shaping to build his confidence (now that I know how to do it properly). 2. If I tell him to do something that he knows how to do he does it before moving onto the next activity - if that means tugging before the next flyball run and he decides not to we leave the field before and he tugs before we go back. This one is the one that seems the harshest because they 'shut down'. This shut down is not really a shut down - it is either a lack of understanding (my bad) or it is a manipulation because the other activity is more rewarding (too bad). Basically by that mean that he 'shuts down' because he would rather do another 4 second flyball run than tug - not my problem, I want him to tug. They soon realise that shutting down is not an option for them. 3. Linked to the above he is ONLY rewarded for fast, crazy behaviour. I have taken a lot of the 'controls' off his life and replaced them with demands for speed - just different, less stifling controls really. eg: I don't put his food down, go inside and make a cup of coffee before he is allowed to eat it. I make sure we have a good game with the food as a reward for speed. Remember, this is a dog who spent the 4 to 12 month period of his life either confined or being kept quiet as he recovered from an injury - I need to change his mindset. 4. When we are training he is only coming out of his crate for VERY short periods of time and when he does he works very intensely. (Ruff Love calls for them to be crated all the time - this is the one area we have relaxed since we are at work 10 hours a day!) He is crated for the day and a half before a trial though - OH is home on Fridays. Cheers Tony

Quite the opposite. Much more alert and willing to work. The other morning he was bouncing and doing the frustrated growling thing when we were doing a shaping exercise - he has NEVER done that. Also much more confident and generally happier in himself. Still not an OTT BC, but definitely much easier to work in a heightened state. T

Thanks PF. I'm thinking it is an uptake issue rather than a diet/balance issue. They get chicken frames 2 to 4 days a week depending on what is in the freezer and where we are at in the feeding cycle. Will add Whey powder to the list. Kidney function all normal AD? Haven't done any tests, but there is no reason to suspect not at this stage according to our vet. (His Thyroid function is normal as well BTW! Bloody million dollar dogs. ) The supplement we have him on has plenty of magnesium in it. Interestingly since we started supplementing his behaviour has changed - but it is hard to know whether this is a result of his new world order (modified to suit our lifestyle Ruff Love) or his modified supplementation.

Thanks PF. I'm thinking it is an uptake issue rather than a diet/balance issue. They get chicken frames 2 to 4 days a week depending on what is in the freezer and where we are at in the feeding cycle. Will add Whey powder to the list.

Hi all, I had bloods done on both my dogs the other week and CK came back as having a slight calcium deficiency. This kind of makes sense since he has always had flakey nails. Anyway, the vet has given us a supplement (volcomin) to give him and in a couple of weeks his nails have improved. Can anyone suggest another supplement that I can use ongoing to make sure he is taking up calcium as he should be. I am thinking EsterC might be a good start, but if there is anything else people recommend I would love to hear. Thanks in advance. Tony

TOTALLY out of order IMO. As far as I am concerned dogs should not bark at each other and I won't tolerate it from mine for any reason. Then again, I won't go to dog parks for any reason because I've just seen FAR too much bad behaviour (both human and canine) in them.

Bad Aim. Strangely my boy only aimed badly once..........

Well..........after two long frustrating years the young man, Mr CK seems to be getting it together. (Or at least I've stopped failing him.) He now has his JD title with the ANKC and is poised for more as we start to do more. Even better than that though at our BAD ADAA beginners trial on Saturday night he had two clear rounds from his two runs in Starters. His contacts were just AWESOME - he drove into place on both the Dog Walk and A-frame and held the 2o2o position, but was super keen to get going again. His weavers in the agility course were a little bit ordinary, but at least he recognised what they were . In the jumpers course he missed a difficult entry, but flew through them after I turned him around. (Starters rules in ADAA allow you to try weavers as many times as you like - just makes making time a bit of a challenge.) So, he is now CK BAAD, AAD, FDE (frisbee dog excellent) as well as being Trumagik Completely Obsesed JD, AFCH. It's not much of a brag for many, but given the challenges CK has presented (both physically and mentally) I'm absolutely over the moon with him.

That seems like a lot. I pay $67 for the test, but get it done at the same time as a chiro check up so there is no consultation. (Vet does his own lab work.)

My next pup will come from my boy's breeder in about 12 to 18 months time. We have already spoken about it and she is keen for us to have another one of her pups (even if she is wanting us to take one before I want to.) I want to get her as early as possible (8 weeks) and will be taking a month off work to settle her in and start bonding rather than letting her run with my other dogs and have to sort out the problems I have already been through with the two I have now. (Problems from a performance POV, not from a pet dog POV.) DOL is a great source of info, but it has not influenced by decision.

Sadly this is the second story along these lines I've heard this week. The other one is to do with a failed police dog that my sister and brother in law took into their home. They thought it was a good way to get a 'free' dog and because she was 'too lazy' to make a police dog it would be a good idea. The dog is beautiful, fantastic temperament, great with the kids and is bored out of its skull and is now chewing everything in sight. The solution - she has to go. Poor puppy will be bumped on to another home with no idea about whether the home is suitable or not. GRRRRRRRRRR...........I know it would be difficult for them to make the time to train the dog and I know that they know they have made a bad decision, but I just hate to see the dog suffer for their (and the original rehomer's) stupidity. ETA - I am trying to at least get them to talk to breed rescue people so that the dog has a chance of going to a good home.

I like Susan Garret's 'Ruff Love'. Very full on for some (strict rules, not harsh), but can be adapted to suit how you need to live.

:p :D ;) congratulations to Mr CK on getting his JD title last night in just his 4th outing. (OK, we've been running with ADAA, but who'd counting). We've won 3 out of 4 outings. The better news is that Missy Xena had a run last night as well and while she knocked a bar because I wasn't clear with my handling she ran very nicely and had a ball - no sign of any back or neck problems before, during or after. Will be interesting to see how we go tonight. Good luck to all who are competing tonight.

Sorry, no can do. We have the BAD beginners trial on that day. Good luck guys. Tony

Just be careful with doing this. Although it is better than nothing, sometimes when you end up with a fit BC they just keep needing more and more. I would recommend 30 minutes physical stimulation and 30 minutes mental for a balanced pup. (Even more is better, but that would be a start.)