Agility Dogs

We had a fantastic day at the WAAG trial on the Gold Coast today, couldn't really have asked for more. CK went really well and was super drivey. He got a card in Intermediate agility and another in the dare to double game - came second to the same dog both times. Xena had an absolutely amazing day, we have really clicked and it is so nice to walk out on a course expecting to go clear rather than hoping I don't forget where I'm going or that she doesn't miss a contact. We still have a little way to go, but are starting to push the quick dogs. We managed - second in Advanced jumping (Q), Fourth in 'Power and Speed' and second in 'Dare to Double'. The team event was funny - it was a 4 dog team. As we lined up the judge looked at the 4 dogs (2 of them had beaten Xena and the other was super quick in the next height class) and said, oh well this could be anything, but whatever it is it will be quick! We won! WOO HOO! Only another week until our next trial - can't wait.

AWESOME - that is just brilliant.

Totally agree on both points. The alternative to the long line is to teach the retrieve/play before you teach the weavers. We spent a lot of time shaping a retrieve when Linda OH was out her earlier in the year - not that my dog won't retrieve, but it was more that he did it on his terms. Shaping it makes it way cool for them and IMO ends up with a better result. (Linda works for Susan.) It is really important to handle your dog around the poles as well - back weaving is like self rewarding - a big no no.

We aren't hosting it, but it is an ADAA event at our grounds. The info isn't up on the website just yet, but in short: When - August 22 all day. Where - South Brisbane Softball Club, Preston Road, Carina. (Doubles as BAD's home grounds.) What: Full day beginners (incl puppies) to intermediate seminar. Your dog will need some foundation skills for the day to be worthwhile. For some classes beginners will be fine, for others you need a starters level title. There is a mix of levels in each session throughout the day. Session range from walking and running full courses to rear end awareness exercises and crate training/crate games. How much - I forget, somewhere between $50 and $80 for the day I think, but will update when I have a chance to check. Who: Instructors from all SEQ clubs will be there on the day. What else - atendees need to be members of ADAA (not just an ADAA club). ADAA membership is $15 for 3 years. Hope that helps for the minute, but keep an eye on the ADAA events calendar for the registration forms. Cheers Tony

Hi, I would be doing heaps of circle work with her as well as shadow handling on the ground (run a course in your mind, but do it on the flat rewarding every time you turn and then occasionally on the straights). She just needs to have more value on staying on the correct side rather than the value you have put on tunnels and jumps. The other thing is eye contact. I didn't notice it before, but both times she did it to you you had lost eye contact with her - impossible to have it all the time, but......... cheers Tony

I'm pretty sure you are allowed to engrave their id no on their tags as well - just had to be identifiable as the BCC number.

When people are talking about dogs needing to be trialled or shown to be worthy of being bred from are you really talking about simply being proven in some arena or other or do you specifically look for ANKC titles in their pedigree. eg: I have a friend who breeds BC's who doesn't show, but who trials a LOT in ADAA and has some very high level titles on her dogs. They are also titled in other performance areas, but again, not ANKC recognised. I also know of some well bred flyball BC's who have minimal if any ANKC titles, but again are some of the best dogs in the country in that arena. Does this matter if she can prove the quality of her dogs to potential owners? Personally if a dog has proven itself I'd be happy to own one of its progeny (all other things - conformation, temperament etc being in line), I just wondered about other people's opinions.

Well done!!

And well done with the puppies. 2x2 is just amazing, isn't it.

Sounds like Erik has you pretty well trained. 'If I do this then I get these treats. If I don't get those treats I won't work.' I admit I have BC's who are wired a little differently, but I do have a VERY challenging and soft BC who is very manipulative and will 'shut down' if things aren't going his way. He doesn't "shut down", he just looks for the food reward. If it's not forthcoming he looks confused, slows down, starts getting distracted. I don't think it's an unwillingness to work so much as a suppressive aversive. He thought he was going to get one reward and when he doesn't he gets a downer. Same way as when he expects a certain reward and he gets it he gets very happy. What reward he expects depends on the cues he has been given. Where we are, the way I'm moving, what I've already rewarded him with, even how aroused he is or what he has an appetite for at that moment. Some cues override others, so if I always use food for one exercise he expects food, and then if I move to another exercise he's still expecting food because of what we've just done. I think we're getting into the realms of "at agility class I get food" and what I really want to do is try to derail that cue so that at agility class he gets food or toys and if he needs to know what to expect than he should pay attention to my cues rather than the environmental or situational cues... This is how Erik works. He always figures out how to know what's happening next. What everything means. But what do I know. I don't think he's manipulative and he's far from soft. He is just very discriminatory. Every little detail means something to him. I wasn't suggesting he is soft and perhaps manipulative is wrong as well - I was trying to draw a parallel between what he does and what my boy does. While the outcome manifests itself differently it still sounds to me like he is running the show. I think you need to change the 'at agility class I get food' mentality to - I get food when I do what I'm told. Take the context out of it - he doesn't get paid unless he does what you ask - doesn't matter if that is go over a jump, tug or sit, he still has to work before he gets the next reward. It might mean breaking it down and only asking for something very small like interest in a toy to be paid and then build the value back up to where you can involve it in agility. I could be way off base and it could also be a breed thing, but from what I've read it sounds to me like what I've seen with a fair number of dogs who play by their rules. I'm not saying they are out of control or they are bad dogs, just that they have never 'had' to work in this context. V. hard in email to get across what I'm trying to say, I just know I've seen it work with both my two when I started to accept nothing but what I want.

I need my stupid boy to remember that it is OK to weave on an agility course so that I can start playing with a new puppy. I don't want to get another one until he is running nicely - can't be too far off now........

Sounds like Erik has you pretty well trained. 'If I do this then I get these treats. If I don't get those treats I won't work.' I admit I have BC's who are wired a little differently, but I do have a VERY challenging and soft BC who is very manipulative and will 'shut down' if things aren't going his way. We have both learned that I hold the keys to fun/reward and that he needs to learn to play my way or he won't get what he wants. Sometimes that is his crate, sometimes it is food, sometimes it is to run the next jump in a sequence, it doesn't matter. Unless it is on my terms it doesn't happen. eg: He LOVES flyball, but if I ask him to tug and he refuses then he WILL tug before he plays again. If that means we go out to the car park to get some tug action then so be it. The hardest thing to get my head around was to keep sessions short enough that we could succeed. At first this might have only been 15 seconds, but if it worked that was a success. Now we can work for 8 to 10 mintues without him shutting down or deciding which treat or toy he is willing to work for. The trick is to pull up the game at 7 minutes.... I'm a big one for putting rules in dogs lives, but at the same time being careful that they are only rules that will heighten behaviours that you want, not dull them down. 'control' and 'calm' are two words I try not to use around CK - I have too much of both and need a little crazy so that is what gets him a reward.

Hi, It probably isn't a confidence issue, but it does sound like an understanding issue. You could try to shorten and straighten the tunnel and do HEAPS of rewarding as the come out the end - throw a toy or piece of food to build drive for them bursting out the end of the tunnel and chasing their reward. Hope that helps. Cheers Tony

I would. If I was comfortable with the dog and bitch they are using I don't see a big difference between that and a more established breeder using two dogs that are not from their lines. (As long as they had done their homework on the physical care of the dogs.)

for getting out and having a go. If you don't run cleare have a good think about why she didn't pass before you decide not to trial her. If it is your error (handling etc) then I'd just keep on trying with her and make sure you keep 'up' when you make the mistake. If it is her understanding then I'd agree - probably better to pull you out of the ring for a while and train. I look back now at some of CK's early trial videos and bash my head against a wall for being so hasty in putting him in the ring. Then again I learned a lot from it - just means that I won't be entering my next dog until s/he is totally ready to run. Has anyone else put a dog in the ring before it was ready? What problems has it caused you and what you you had to do about fixing them?

Love it :D :D Yep. I am now proud to say that I have progressed to consciously incompetent in some areas (I at least know what I don't know!), verging on consciously competent in others.

double post.

I started with a dog who is a natural athlete and though pffffttttt........Xena knows how to jump, I don't need to do that with her. (Didn't know what I didn't know.........Unconsciously incompetent.) At the encouragement of a couple of people I've since done a LOT of grid work with both my dogs and swear by it. It teaches them to look for jump and understand how to jump. The result is that I have two dogs who over two days of competition will generally knock 3 bars between them if we have a bad weekend. I also think it helps keep them safer because they understand what it is they are doing in relation to take off and landing zones. - for me this is probably more important. The other benefit is that I understand their take off and landing zones which helps me work on accel and decel cues. Susan Salo's DVD's are a really good reference for this type of stuff. Cheers

Uh huh. I'm only just now beginning to be able to run courses and make decisions on the way around. I think part of it is almost instinctual, but I think the other part of being able to do it is being controlled enough to think 3 or 4 obstacles ahead. I've found that since I've started to be able to do that I get things badly wrong a lot less often. The other challenge you have is quick dogs. Dogs that don't move quite so quickly give you a chance, our guys don't......

It's hard isn't it. Although you seem happy with the way things are so you are obviously not struggling with it as I am. Do you ever lose yourself in the moment & forget which dog you are running? I did used to forget which dog I had, but haven't for a while. I think it is because I have to adopt a totally different mind set with each in preparing to go into the ring. Xena I get out and wander around with, trying to keep it just a little bit calm. CK I leave in his crate until the very last minute. Run to the ring tugging like mad. Tug until I have to enter the ring (or give the steward my lead if we are doing ANKC) and then get him off the line as quickly as possible. I think the other thing that is helping me is that I am making a REALLY concerted effort to 'stay connected' with each dog and watching them so closely means I'm less likely to forget who I have with me.

Although my two are both BC's there is no way that I can run them both the same way. Their skill and drive levels are so different that it will just never work. Xena is really drivey and has exceptional value on the game. I don't have to say a lot around the course and don't have to cheer lead by running (although she seriously makes me move on some courses.) CK on the other hand needs me moving to keep him going and needs a lot more baby sitting - not because he doesn't like the game, but because his is not a great fan of running ahead on his own. I also need to talk him around a course a lot more than I do Xena. Both can be quick, but it takes the planets to align for CK to do it whereas Xena is quick while ever her eyes are open. LOL. They do both undestand the same handling cues, I just have to work that much harder with CK.

Argh creative handling - its beautiful when IF it works

I have to smile watching this run AD you were so controlled to begin with and then the second half you had to pull your finger out and the faster you went the faster Xena went :D Well done - and the best bit you both looked to really enjoy yourselves ;) Now if only all the runs were like this LOL x 2. That was the funny bit. Most people with quickish dogs really struggled after the first 9 hurdles or so because they were technical, but not a lot of running. After that it was all down hill. :p The other funny bit was that all the training where I just scream at Xena seems to be working......She had every right to take that jump :D , but for the first time ever listened to my pleas.

4 quallies from 6 runs is a great success rate - the rest was the icing on the cake - well done you have every right to be tickled pink x2. Well done!!

I think all dogs have potential to achieve at varying levels. Two things I LOVE watching........ An AWESOME dog fulfilling its potential with a brilliant handler. The only thing that beats it is....... An average dog fulfilling its potential with a brilliant handler and beating a lot of dogs that 'could' do so much better. For me nothing beats a handler that has squeezed something special out of a dog that otherwise would not be so good. One day I want my boy to be this dog. ETA - not that he isn't a brilliant dog in so many ways, but physically he is not as agile as some of the dogs he competes with and mentally we have had a lot of training issues due to some bad luck early on.