Agility Dogs

Agree with the others. PLUS one BIG thing to keep in mind is that the end of the chute needs to be pegged in. If it isn't (and I've seen it happen when people have been too lazy to do it at training) the dog stands a much higher chance of getting caught in there and then you will have a world of hurt rebuilding the confidence.

I think you have two problems here. The first is that she doesn't understand that her job is to get to the end of the contact and stick there until you release her - somehow she has become confused about where on the contact you want her to stop. I would be going back and training that - you need to create more value for the end position on the contact than she currently has. (I have this problem with my boy.) I think you can fade out the target by asking for multiple nose touches before releasing. Then when the target goes you still ask for the nose touches. Initially the target will go in and out and ultimately only come out occasionally at training. What does your target look like? The smaller and more transparent it is the easier this will be. A small clear plastic square works well because they are never sure whether it is there until they are on top of it - means they have to prepare for it being there. The second problem is that 2o2o training goes out the window when she is excited . Unless you are totally sure that you can get into position just about every time then I would be insisting on 2o2o before allowing her to continue. I have been down this slippery slope with my girl - she used to be exactly like you are describing and it just got worse and worse as she got quicker and and more excited on course. We now have an agreement that I will let her run contacts, but the minute she jumps off them she gets to walk off course. I'm not all that happy with the arrangement because it means I have to run REALLY quickly at times, but it works for us for now and realistically I need her to run contacts if we are going to beat the dogs I want her to beat . Every so often though we come across a refusal plane that we just can't do because my training sux and I haven't stuck to my criteria in the interest of getting a card. This is a good example of what I'm talking about - I had to be there as she came off the a-frame (not sure the judge had her glasses on that day) and the dog walk so that she didnt' take the wrong obstacle. I'd prefer her to run the obstacle independently and stop at the end. Makes life a lot easier. The pup that is coming through at the moment will not EVER be allowed to blow contacts because she is excited - released quickly fine, but only if I say so. I don't want to have the battle that I have had with Xena again.

The other way to do this and build confidence is to work up to full height by teaching a nose touch to begin with and then asking the dog to do a nose touch on the end of the contact equipment. When he can do that ask him to do a nose touch from 6 inches, then a foot, then 18 inches etc etc. Eventually you are asking them to drive into position from the top of the a-frame. Once you get this they are ready to run the entire a-frame with a nice 2o2o performance at the end. This way you never have to worry about slow performance because you are asking for fast performance (and getting it) before asking for the next piece of the puzzle. Rear end awareness is a MASSIVE start - the dogs should understand to rock rock back as they head to the bottom of the a-frame. You can really tell the dogs that understand their where their bum is from those who don't. IMO no dog should be allowed on full height equipment unsupervised until they understand how to complete the obstacle.

I have an 8 m.o. BC who has been doing this since she was about 4 m.o. I am ALMOST at the point where I can/would now trust her not to chase if she were ever given the opportunity. Basically while we've been on our walks I've worked to get her to understand that if she looks at me when she hears a car coming she gets a treat. If she heads off after the car she gets to correct herself on the end of the lead. We are now at the point where about 90% of the time she will look at me - she is treated about 50% of the time with food and about 50% of the time with praise and a pat (initially a MUCH higher% of food). The 10% of the time she is looking at (not chasing) the car she gets a neutral or slightly negative verbal response. Of course the quicker way to achieve the same thing is to correct any chasing behaviour either with a lead/corection collar or voice. I trained my older two dogs like that and only took a week or so to get it sorted. I've found that by being a bit more positive I like the outcome more than by using correction. 3/3 dogs don't chase cars, but the youngest is much more focussed on me rather than just behaving to avoid a correction. I think if I were on a farm where it was essential that the dog could work around machinery/cars then I would have corrected from the word go, but I have the luxury of choice on this one. ETA - she is never off lead or out from behind a fence where there is even a remote chance that she could chase a car.

Purebred working BCs are still used as are working kelpies. There would be very very few ANKC BCs working on real properties. Ok last dumb question for the year, do working BC's look the same as ANKC BC's? Typically not. 'Working' borders tend to be 'leggier' and often won't have as much coat as their ANKC counterparts. Also working borders often don't have as uniform or 'classic' markings as ANKC borders because they are not selected for markings, they are selected for their working ability/temperament. Their head is also often 'finer'.

I never thought I would say this, but I can understand where the OP is coming from. Me too. There is a bastard of a staffy living next door to me, attacked my big dog at the park for no reason (my dog wasn't even standing neat the staffy nor looking at it). Thank god for good fences. And then a few weeks back we had the unfortunate experience of meeting a couple with two staffys, one of them grabbed my puppy around it's neck - again my dog didn't want a bar of this other dog, it simply attacked. So, I don't hold this particular breed of dog in high stead at present. I was one not to judge any dog not so long ago but I need to meet some really nice non dog aggressive staffys to sway my mind right now. eta - I meant to say, I hope the OP has no problems with her new neighbours nor their dogs WOA THERE!!!!!! I think by deleting the rest of my post you have really changed the context of it. I was NOT denigrating any breed, nor was I saying that I have a problem with staffies in general. I WAS saying that I can understand the OP being nervious about a situation given a previous experience. Please don't twist what people say to suit your own arguments.

I never thought I would say this, but I can understand where the OP is coming from. They are not judging an entire breed, they have a fear because of a bad experience. Fears are rarely rational and to tell them they are less than sensible because of their fears is not all that helpful. After an incident the other week I am cautious (to say the least) about particular situations. There is no real rational basis for my fear, but it is very real and I can't just put it in a box and forget about it - as much as I would like to. Time and exposure will heal the wounds, but not just yet. I can understand te OP's fear and the best way to confront it will probably be to go and speak with the new neighbour and meet the dogs. I do agree that you need to be careful in how you approach, but I think that most people would be greatful for a chance rather than having a neighbour sit in quiet judgement.

Thanks for asking such a great question - its always a fine line between your dogs wanting to play and other people being threatened by their manner. I'm sorry if she was aggressive herself, but I can understand why she might feel that way. Different breeds of dog play very differently and they don't always understand each other and unfortunately it is usually the smaller dogs that end up hurt. To answer your questions - unless she knows who you are and where you live then you don't have too much of a problem. Also - without some sort of proof that it happened and that it was your dog involved it might be difficult to get anything done about it. In terms of the second answer - I'm not sure that I would call it aggressive, but I would call it inappropriate and with the potential to start a problem. My boy will not go near another dog and will actually go out of his way to avoid them, but if your lab behaved the way you have described to him and did not read his signals to leave him alone then your dog would be told off in no uncertain terms. One the weekend I had an incident like this at the beach and the people who owned the other dogs were nice enough, but just didn't understand their dogs' behaviour. I saw their two boxers running towards us from about 300m and decided to put 2 of mine on lead - the puppy would go to play (and risk injury from bigger dogs - a similar incident with a GR is why I have to be so careful with my boy/and I don't want her learning that running away from me is rewarding) and my boy would be protective of the puppy. The two boxers were at least 200m from their owners when they got to me. They started out polite enough and my boy was happy to say hello, if a little bit put out by the game being interrupted by strange dogs. This escalated into the other dogs trying to incite my three to play. By this time the other owners had reached us and said, 'Oh, what a shame, you can't let your dogs off lead.' 'Ah, no, I can let them off lead, but there is a reason that I don't like them annoying other dogs and getting in their faces (hint hint).' They came back with ' Oh, that's a shame you can't control them.' Hmmmmmm............. My dogs weren't the ones that had bolted 300m to get to other dogs, weren't the ones starting to jump on a much smaller dog and weren't the ones that had to be dragged away up the beach. I have to make myself stay very calm in situations like this one - it annoys me more than I can put into words, but I know my boy feeds off my frustration which is never a good thing. perhaps this is the situation that the poodle lady was faced with and she just didn't keep her emotions in check. Bottom line - it is rude for your dog to race up to other dogs that she doesn't know and at some point it will end up in a fight You need to work on being able to recall her from ANYTHING and check with other owners before letting her bound up to their dogs.

I have to say that I agree with the OP, but I don't see any amount of complaining fixing the problem. To sort out that sort of attitude you need to get in and make the organisation change by becoming involved. I HATE seeing dogs treated that way and there are a couple of clubs up here who do practice that. The second last time I went to obedience club I had an argument with the chief instructor who, after really harshly correcting a little dog demanded my lead so she could show me how to deal with my boy. (He was a little bit slow to sit.) I told her that I would work through the issue, but that she wasn't going to be handling my dog if that was how she treated other people's animals. The last time I went she decided she needed to aggressively walk up into my young dog's face while she was on a stand stay and then tell me my dog wasn't that good after all. The most disappointing thing is that I KNOW that this person doesn't train her own dogs that harshly and that as a judge she would not walk into a dog's face like that. She is just a bully and is sadly teaching others to bully their dogs that way. I've seen other instructors do the same thing - I just don't understand it. Point being - it is a shame that so many clubs still practice these training methods - whatever you choose to call them. Some people don't want to treat their dogs this way and most don't need to. I agree that correction is sometimes necessary, but it is not a one size fits all and in the vast majority of cases it isn't necessary if a dog has the right foundations. Yes, it can be quicker, but IMO it doesn't build a better result long term.

Sorry, what was the point? I agree with you that it is education that will solve the problem, but it is not education of the BYB or whoever else - like the OP is suggesting. Like you said it is education of the 'smokers' that is necessary. I was combining what you said with the overall thread. Sorry if I've offended. oh no offence taken at all AG i think we need to do 3 things just like the smoking educate the public on the issues make the producers (BYB's) of the "product" pay (as in the USA where tobacco companies were sued by class action) legislate and police so in my world BYB's would have to do everything registered breeders are responsible for and this would be policed. not so attractive for them to breed. we are on the same page!

Bugger about his let - takes forever to get them right, doesn't it. It's never too early to start agility - its just a matter of making sure that you are doing age appropriate exercises. My girl is 7 months old and is already doing more than my older dog was at 14 months. She understands tunnels, handling cues, can go over small jumps (not higher than she normally runs at, but she understands what a jump is) etc etc. Don't be scared off by the 18 month old thing. If they are able to start competing at 18 months then it stands to reason they ahve been training before that. It is a great way to build a relationship and you can build on the equipment they work on as they grow up. Either way - have fun!!

Although not strictly an obedience club the Pine Agility Dog Sports (PADS) club does offer obedience classes, although I'm not sure that they are competition focussed. Check out their website at http://www.pads.org.au/?q=motivation I've chosen one of the follow ups from the obedience class. If you are interested in competition then you aer probably best off at one of the other clubs that have been mentioned. If you lean towards agility then PADS is a great alternative. Cheers

Sorry, what was the point? I agree with you that it is education that will solve the problem, but it is not education of the BYB or whoever else - like the OP is suggesting. Like you said it is education of the 'smokers' that is necessary. I was combining what you said with the overall thread. Sorry if I've offended.

Yes, but in this analogy the manufacturers were not the target of education, it was the smokers who were targetted. Running around (figuratively) belting people up for cross breeding is only going to give you a headache because it is not in their interests to hear what you are saying. It is the end user (dog owner) who needs to come to their own conclusion and start to change their behaviour. Cigarette companies are still eeking out a (massive, decreasingly profitable) living and seeking to justify their means and ends - people simply breeding mary lou with peter the pound dog are never going to get it because they are making money from it. Changing the world one pet owner at a time is what it comes back to and insulting people's intelligence and abusing people who don't see the world the way we do is going to do more harm than good. The only way to effect wholesale change is to find someone with the time, means and energy to lobby governments and start the wheels of change moving. The problem with that approach is whether it is a big enough issue within society for governments to care. Last I checked the streets were not being over run by out of control cross breeds so it is unlikely to get on the radar any time soon. Sorry, just in a realistic mood this morning - unless someone with far more cash and time than I have decides to champion the cause then everything else is just a myopic dream.

I titre test annually it costs about $70 per dog, plus the vaccinations as required. We also vacc annually for KC. The dog clubs I play at all accept it - mostly after some negotiation. (I can prove my dogs have immunity - can you?......)

VERY COOL. That is such a good feeling isn't it!?

We 'got our dog a dog'. MASSIVE mistake. We went from having one very well behaved 9 month old puppy to having two out of control puppies who bonded better to each other than to us. It took a massive amount of work to restore the balance (Like about 18 months worth) and in the mean time we had the 'power shift' thing happen and several fights. Not so serious in the scheme of things, but still not pleasant. I know you are talking about an older dog which will make things potentially a little more stable, but there will still be issues to manage. That said we have just added a third to our pack - older two are 4 and the younger one is a pup. We have not had too much trouble, but the pup was not allowed to run with the older dogs until it would come back to me in preference to playing with the other dogs. We have still had a few little issues, but are also a bit more experienced and can handle them more effectively this time. Be prepared to seperate your dogs if you do introduce another. More dogs = more fun and more cuddles, but more work and more headaches as well.

We love red beach at Bribie Island. Bit of a drive from the city, but well worth it. We go there because there aren't a lot of dogs running around and there are literally miles to walk up and down.

Thanks - that's one of the points I have made to the committee dealing with it. We are not ever going to stop this dog being this dog. All we can do is change the balance in the relationship between handler and owner so that the dog has more value on the handler than it does achieving satisfaction elsewhere.

We have 3 BC's - two are 4y.o. and a 7 month old pup. Of a morning we walk down to the local park and each dog does 2 or 3 quick training sessions depending on what we are working on and what time I got up. Then it's home for a quick blast around the back yard chasing the ball or whatever toy they dump in my lap while I'm taking my shoes off. Night time will either be a walk of up to an hour then some shaping exercises or play in the back yard if we are not heading out to training. (3 or 4 nights a week.) That is 5 days a week. On the weekends we have a good play in the mornings and then usually spend the days ferrying to and from some trial or other. If we have nothing on (heaven forbid) we spend the days doing something around the house and having toys dumped in our lap every 30 seconds. If I have had enough the toys go away and the dogs know to have a rest. They LOVE exercise, but because of the all the brain work we do they don't need it constantly. ETA - they are crated at night and have the run of the yard during the day. (As long as there are no injuries. If there are then they are in their runs.)

Yep - not a problem. Also - you guys were both AWESOME the other night. EVERYONE was talking about how good you were and how greatful they were!! Can't wait to see you in the ring next year.

That is a LONG way down the track, once it is proofed in all the other previous behaviours. IFF (if and only if) dog an handler can prove they have to ability to cope.

Thanks everyone for your input. In reality, I don't think we can 'fix' the aggression in this (or any) dog. This will be more about equipping the handler with the skills to keep contact with the dog and giving the dog the ability to work with the handler instead of looking for other reinforcement (in this case other dogs.) It MAY be that the dog/handler cannot achieve this in the environment they want to play in, but we need to try. Chevvy55 - thanks for your valuable input, but rightly or wrongly both the club and the umbrella organisations it is associated with do not allow the use of aversives in training. If they are required then the dog is probably not stable enough to play this sport and needs to find another outlet. I say this without any judgement. There are situations that I won't put one of my dogs in because I know he can't cope with them. In this case the handler is going to have to be good enough to prevent the unwanted behaviour by making sure the dog is ready and proofed before moving to the next step in the process. For a start we've broken the goals down as follows: The actual work to be done is another story and will be worked up once the goals are all determined. 1. Dog can work with handler in the adjacent field when the equipment is out. 2. Dog can work in the training field when the equipment is out and keep his focus on the handler. 3. Dog can work in the adjacent field when other dogs are running. 4. Dog can work on the training field (on lead) when dogs are running. 5. Dog can work on training field (off lead) when dogs are running. (not in class, off to one side) 6. Dog can tolerate being in proximity to other dogs and still be focussed on handler. 7. At this point he can begin to be re-integrated into the class. I don't think we can attach time frames to these (or similar) goals - to do that would be to set her up for failure as we have no way of knowing how long each step might take. Fingers crossed for a positive outcome!

Anyone who discounts anyone else's techniques and feels they have nothing to learn from them needs to take a good long look at themselves. NO trainer has all the answers IMO. The best ones are the ones who remember they are still learning - regardless of their preferred technique.

I'm not at all concerned by what she said. I found it kind of funny reallly. She gets plenty of naughty puppy time, but like others have said - when we are working we are working.