LisaB85

I like both red and black dobes, but I chose a red one because people react differently towards them, for the most part, because they can't identify the breed. Having owned a rottie and experienced first hand the ways certain breeds are treated by the general public, I thought I'd experiment and go with a rarer colour. And it's been really successful. The people who would be scared of him just based on his breed have no idea what he is and just love him for being a nice dog - they ask if he's everything from kelpie cross to weim, and the people who can recognise him know the truth about dobies. So not sure if that is a valid answer to your question, but yes, colour was a large factor when choosing my dog, and I restrained myself to only choose from the brown puppies.

Hi guys, as some of you probably already know, I have a doberman puppy who is now about 3.5 months old. He knows how to sit, come, heel, stay, wait, leave it, shake, down, outside, inside, toilet, NO (you're being naughty right now), uh uh (you're moving towards doing something naughty), bring here, dance lol (put your paws on my hands, stand up and follow me) and there are no doubt others but along those sorts of lines. He is very obedient now, but I am keen to put him through some obedience classes to make the fast approaching teenage years more bearable. We have owned a female rottie before and had no issues, but, stories on these forums have left me a bit worried about what my little boy may become like as a male dobe. I have called a few places that I found via a google search, but most of them offer a service where I would leave my dog with them to train for 2-3 weeks. If possible, I would prefer a service that trains me to better train him. I am very fortunate in having a flexible work arrangement that also pays very well, so I have the time and resources to dedicate to his training myself. I am located in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, but will travel up to an hour to take him to the best place, so if anyone has any recommendations or advice on the type of services I should be seeking I'm all ears.

Well, if we can only have our dogs off-leash in our own back-yards, than people in the eastern suburbs shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because most of us don't have huge back-yards. I do not think that we should not be able to use any of the parks in the area. I don't think an acceptable solution is to consider all the parks off-limits, even for the adult dogs? I don't want anything to happen to my puppy, but to me that's like saying, oh, better home school the kids, and put them in bubbles because they might get hurt? I was not at all scared of the swf dogs yesterday, I was just angry at the owner. My own dog did not react, didn't whine or anything whilst they were barking and snarling at him. He stood behind me and waited, because, brownie points for me, he's now seen me handle these situations several times. I have confronted several dogs who have charged him, big and small, not always acting aggressively, but I don't consider that type of greeting acceptable. The large staffies were also growling and barking staring way too intently at him. If I say they were behaving aggressively and pulling on the leash, give me some credit, I've had dogs for about 15 years, I know how to recognise aggression. You weren't given those facts, stop trying to be antagonistic. It's not helping anyone. My anger is not directed at the dogs, it is completely at the owners. I called them things because I'm no breed expert, couldn't think of another word to substitute, and I wasn't about to start trying to claim to you guys that I could instantly recognise every breed I came across. Plus, to me, the breed is irrelevant in assessing whether a dog is likely to be aggressive or not. The whole point I've been trying to make is not that some breeds are more aggressive than others. The point is that some breeds are much stronger than others, but for some reason, the bully breeds are publicly perceived as being smaller to medium size dogs and hence safe and convenient for first-time, non-prepared dog owners. Dobermans, GSDs, rotties etc are all undeniably large powerful breeds. People know they are buying a large powerful breed. For some reason, bully type breeds are insanely popular, as are the swf types. They can be similar in size. But unlike the swf types, they are also insanely powerful. Hence I thought after my experiences the other day that something needed to be done. There is currently no public education taking place. Pet shops continue to sell all manner of breeds to anyone. You tell me what should be done. I am still taking my puppy to the park. I am still avoiding the heavily populated areas. I'm not changing because I didn't make the decision lightly in the first place; I did research, I spoke to different qualified people and so far I'm very happy with the results, because my puppy is doing so wonderfully and everyone remarks so. And before you all start freaking out, I tell everyone who says to the point of, oh dobermans look like a great breed - yes but only if you have the time and resources and are willing to devote them to extensive training. I do not mince words. I am making every effort to train my puppy. He is very well socialised at this point, and I invite anyone and everyone to come and meet him and see for yourself. He greets other dogs and people very politely. He is curious, but not too forward. He knows a tonne of commands, and whilst he's unlikely to do them for strangers, he receives training every day and is very responsive to me. I don't have any kids, maybe in another 5-10 years lol so no sports games to go to. But he goes for 3-4 walks every day and meets like 20 people and dogs. I don't know what the solution here is, I only feel that it's unacceptable to do nothing.

Ok few things have happened. I know I said I had calmed down last night, but now, I don't actually think I had. The whole experience really did shake me to the core because I honestly thought even if it was only for a few seconds that I was going to watch my puppy be killed. Went down the road to the shops today as usual, and we were rushed again by several dogs. A mini schnauzer and 2 maltese things were the worst. The woman with the maltese terriers had them on what looked like horse leads and there was almost not enough room on the footpath for my dog to be out of reach of hers. She didn't do anything when her dogs were striking out at mine, growling, barking, struggling etc, so I said, and not in the nicest way, "do you think that given you have no control over your dogs, you should perhaps keep them on a shorter lead?" She just stared at me blankly the whole time. The only thing I remember her saying, was, "oh, one of them likes to bark". This makes no sense to me, so because they like to attack other dogs they're allowed to? There was also an older woman trying to get past at the time, waiting for me to go first. She asked if I could get past, and I said, not at this moment because those 2 dogs were trying to attack mine. This was at Queen St shops btw, heaps of people, now all looking at this woman with her 2 vicious swf dogs. And still she did absolutely nothing. Holding just the end of her lead ropes and not really moving because her dogs were pulling her to the side. At least the lady with the schnauzer tried to pull him on a short leash and apologized, though she did nothing to correct her dog. On the plus side, my puppy doesn't panic anymore. He just sticks super close and keeps walking at my side, paying everything else little attention, albeit with his tail tightly between his legs. But I think this may have been because I don't feel scared when I see the malteses or the schnauzers coming for him, because I feel quite confident in my ability to protect him. The ridiculous part is I actually feel safer when I see a GSD coming towards us than a maltese terrier I don't want BSL, but owning a young, sensitive breed, I am finding myself increasingly frustrated with people who can not and will not put any effort into controlling their dogs. I realise now that no matter what breed, having a dog that is out of control creates a very difficult and dangerous situation, because as he gets older and bigger, I will have to start worrying about him reciprocating. Where can I go to walk my dog? There are sooo many dogs in Woollahra, and it is certainly a thin minority that I would want my dog having anything to do with. I can not walk around the block without running into at least 10 other dogs, and about 50% of them will try and charge my dog. BTW, this is not the first large, dominant breed I have owned. We have had GSD, rotties and a staffy in our family; and I would not want to see any of those breeds in the hands of a bad owner. Also know what parvo is. But I have a puppy now who loves to be patted by strangers, who strange kids can just start patting without great manners, and he not only tolerates it but enjoys it because I have rewarded him for this behaviour. When I first got him, he refused to go outside, to walk, to talk to anyone. I live in a heavily populated area, so to survive, this is how he has to be. I was not trying to blame the dog yesterday for what happened, I was absolutely furious at the owner, and just wanted to be able to stop her from being able to own anymore dogs that she could screw up, and of course also to enable to hurt other dogs.

Well, it was an off-lead area... But not the main one in the park where all the dogs are. Aside from me, I saw only one couple having a picnic, the woman with the pack, and then as I was leaving, a couple with an oodle cross thingy. And I was there for over an hour. Very familiar with BSL. Didn't say I now support it, said I would likely describe my position as on the fence, because nothing else is being done to control who can and can't own powerful breeds, and so I believe the current situation is dangerous. As I've already said, I think the ideal situation would be for dog ownership to be more regulated. But that seems to have been put into the too hard box, so you tell me what should happen. I chose a dobe because I wanted an intelligent, large breed, not much fur, not bred traditionally for hunting or herding purposes. Deterrent security wise. Very affectionate and loving. Capable of accompanying me on my jogs and bike rides. Very good looking. I have spent about 3 years preparing for one, visited several breeders, read heaps of books, internet pages etc. Chose the one I have based on his parents - very intelligent, bred to dobe standard in terms of temperament as well as looks. I am fortunate in that I can commit a lot of time to developing the puppy, guaranteed for at least the first 2 years of his life, and I know I will always be able to keep him financially. That's why I waited so long before going out and getting one. You're more than welcome to meet him lol and see for yourself what a terrible job I'm doing of raising him...

What has that to do with the topic? It's about her pup being attacked, not vaccination. Why are you hassling the OP with emails? Thank you! Please, if you want to talk about vaccination, start another thread. I love my dog very very much. My boyfriend is still yelling at me for grabbing him when the dog was trying to attack him, because he thought I could be attacked, but I just didn't even give it any thought at the time. I don't consider myself ignorant of the risks, but there are more risks than things like parvo when you own a breed like a doberman, and the vet and breeder have told me it is more risky to keep him inside until after he is 4 months old, which would be when his vaccinations would be complete. My vet told me in his 30 years, he has heard of one case of parvo in the eastern suburbs and in that case, the dog had been in Blacktown the day before. He said the risk was extremely low to nil. On the other hand, he told me he might get Kennel Cough, but that the effects of that would not compare to the effects of keeping him isolated at this crucial period in his development. All about minimizing risk I guess, and I think you would have to agree that reasonable minds could reach different conclusions on the matter. But please don't mention it anymore in this particular thread, it is OT. I was nowhere near a road, I was nowhere near anything but a pond and grass. Like I've already said, my puppy was on my feet at the time, which is where he sits whether he's on the lead or not. I believe I have good recall with him, given that even when people offer him food at their picnics (because he is the cutest damn pup you've ever seen) he will not go further than about 2m away from me, and I have to approach other people first before he will. When he is scared, he tries to climb up me. I don't know, you guys may have a very valid point about how I should have him on the lead at all times, but, it's still not relevant to this particular incident, because the issue was not that he was too far away for me to help, it was that the dog that was aggressive was not controlled. You guys can spend all day trying to determine my agenda if you don't want to take me on face value. I do not post often on these forums because I have seen what can happen to people. The whole point of my post was to firstly vent off some of the lasting anxiety I had from the attack, but then also, on reflection, I felt like after all these years, I could potentially understand why some people actually wanted BSL, and why people will make the distinction between different breeds. I do think an owner would have trouble getting a large breed off another dog, but, I do think the dog itself would have better luck with a huge, slow newf over a pittbull. I was thinking about it more today, and thinking about all the dogs who have tried to attack my puppy so far. There were a few small things, which we all just ignored, there was the labrador yesterday at lunch which wouldn't stop barking at him but who knows how far it would have taken it, and then about a week ago, there were 2 large staffy type dogs. They were on a lead, but pulling out in front, lunging at my dog. I say large because I thought staffies were only meant to be about 20kg, and these ones were definitely larger than that. There are a couple of gsds in my area, all very well behaved. There is a rottie who is also well-behaved. I don't know. In my area at least, all the incompetent owners seem to own the small fluffy things, and the bully breeds. Looking out the window this morning, another large staffy looking thing, pulling out in front of its owner on the walk. The bully breeds and crosses are often considered small-medium sized dogs, and hence owned out of convenience by people who would not want a large dog. But they are not comparable to the other small breeds in terms of power. I am going to try and report the lady today, I remember some of the members of her pack, the male steel grey bully thing at the front, a border collie cross, a brindle large female something, a small tan and white maltese looking thing and a few other small-med sized things. You know it's interesting isn't it? All in the same pack, all with the same crap owner, but only one of them attacked my puppy, no questions asked, and that one just happened to be the bully breed.

I have checked him very thoroughly, he has no wounds thank god. I don't know what to say, but really I think it's likely his worst injury is from me lifting him up by his collar, but I just didn't have a choice. They were all her dogs. I think I will report her then, because I don't want to have to constantly worry about running into her, and yeah, I agree with what someone else said - I would be devastated if my puppy was injured or killed when someone could have prevented it by reporting the dangerous dog. I feel very sad that it may result in her losing her dog, but more than anything I just really hope that after today, she realises it's her fault.

I have always agreed with these sorts of points, and continue to do so. Where I live, there are many swf things that attack anything and everything. Today at lunch, we had to move because a woman had a labrador that was just too aggressive and she could not control him/her. The point I'm making is that none of those dogs scared me to this extent, because I always at least feel like I'm in with some kind of chance. Today, for the first time, I felt like I had absolutely no chance against a particular dog; you end up waiting for them to give up, and that's not something they do. It was too low, center of gravity protected it from counter-attacks by humans, too strong and too determined. I have been attacked by a boxer, by heaps of small dogs, and by 2 labradors, but in all of these cases, I did not feel as hopeless as I did with this dog today. I believe 100% that this behaviour was the result of poor ownership. But currently, there is nothing stopping terrible owners from buying these kinds of dogs. A doberman would be quite terrible in the wrong hands, but they just don't have the same build. My dog currently weighs about 10kg max. His dad weighs 40+kg, but I believe this dog today would destroy him in a fight - there just isn't any other breed that can really compete on the fighting scene. I have met many wonderful examples of bully breeds. One of my favourite dogs is a presumed pitt bull mix. But I do not think they should be available for general ownership. Because they are not even in the same league in terms of damage potential as most of the other breeds. If a crap dog owner decides to get a dog, if they raise it terribly, abuse it, don't socialise it, no training etc etc, there is still likely be a difference in the outcome if they had started with a pitt bull vs most of the other breeds. Don't get me wrong. If I could, I would change the laws and control who could own dogs. Too many dogs in shelters, too many being abused and too many completely avoidable dangerous situations. But I just don't think this will ever happen. And so, whilst I do not think it will be effective in eliminating all of the problems, I do now think there's a good chance that some BSL for these bully breeds would make it safer, purely because they are stronger and more tenacious than any other breed in general (of course there will be exceptions) - and in the wrong hands, this creates/enables a completely unacceptable situation. So many of the hard cases on the dog whisperer are with bully breeds because they don't give up, and they're stubborn, but I hadn't seen the dangerous side of that until today. Secondly, like I said before, I think these breeds are attracting the wrong sorts of owners. And people often say, oh well you ban one breed, they'd just buy another, but I'm not sure that's the case. They don't always want dogs, they want what a pittbull is portrayed to be, and this is what they create. Dobermans seem to be quite rare these days, I have seen only one other, and to be honest, I think this is how it should be. They are not suitable for all dog owners, and mine is a lot of work. This is how it should be with these bully breeds, but it's not. There is no such thing as an easy breed, but there are certainly breeds which are safer. A lot of this is speculation though, I don't deny it. I feel a lot calmer now, although unfortunately, when I put my puppy to bed, he cried for the first time in weeks, so I'm guessing he is still a bit shaken up. I'm just trying to act like nothing has changed and praying that tomorrow when I take him for his walks, he doesn't shy away from the other dogs. I'm not going to go and support BSL, but, if I'm honest, I'd probably say I'm based on the fence now.

This was not the off-leash dog section of the park btw. This was a random section, closer to the fence near the bus depo in a section I'd never been to before. It was virtually empty except for a few joggers, and well, this pack. I had him off lead because he sticks to my feet, but so he can go to the toilet. It wouldn't have made any difference in this situation to have had him on a lead or not. He was sitting on my feet when the dog charged; he couldn't have been any closer and that's what saved him. He usually walks past other dogs with no problems, but as soon as I saw the way this dog looked at him, I did think to put him on his lead. I thought the owner would be able to control her dog if I could control mine; I wouldn't leave the house with a dog I couldn't control.

Don't deny it for a second - any breed can be aggressive. What worries me is that I could not move her dog, and neither could she. He was a tank; impervious to her hitting him. Cesar Milan calls them Gladiator dogs because they become immune to pain and don't give up. If properly trained, this makes them very useful and great with kids. If not, well, they're just unstoppable. He had no neck, nothing to grab to move the head away, no vulnerable part to aim for. I believe they surpass all other breeds in this respect. I am not saying I think there is no place for them, only that they are comparably more dangerous in the wrong hands. But you said your puppy has no serious injuries :D Yes but when I picked him up, the dog was leaping at my feet, trying to grab him. I could not move him away, and when the owner grabbed his collar, she couldn't either. She could only hold him in place so that I could move away. She hit him several times while he was jumping, he completely ignored her. The reason I noticed he didn't appear to have any vulnerable areas was because to be honest, I wanted to kick him to try and get him to go away.

Don't deny it for a second - any breed can be aggressive. What worries me is that I could not move her dog, and neither could she. He was a tank; impervious to her hitting him. Cesar Milan calls them Gladiator dogs because they become immune to pain and don't give up. If properly trained, this makes them very useful and great with kids. If not, well, they're just unstoppable. He had no neck, nothing to grab to move the head away, no vulnerable part to aim for. I believe they surpass all other breeds in this respect. I am not saying I think there is no place for them, only that they are comparably more dangerous in the wrong hands.

I am still shaking. I have just finished my shower, which I had to have because my puppy urinated on me, as well as, I can't be sure, but I think he expelled his anal glands or something. He did this because today, he was almost killed by a bully type dog at Centennial Park in the eastern suburbs of Sydney. He is about 11 weeks old, a baby doberman. He walks at my side with or without a leash, never more than about 2 meters away from me. Today at the park, we were in a fairly secluded area where I thought we were basically the only ones. He was at my side as usual, when a pack of like 8 dogs and one older female lady suddenly appeared around a corner about 5m from us. I saw the way the dog who was leading the pack, a steel coloured bully breed looking thing looked at my pup, the way he instantly locked on, but I thought that being off the lead, he wouldn't do anything serious because, well I figured that if you knew you had a dangerous dog, you wouldn't leave them to their own devices. I did think I should put the lead on my puppy, because I thought there was a chance that if he approached that dog, it might not like it. But I didn't get a chance. Not even a second had passed since first seeing him when he charged and grabbed my puppy. I didn't even think. I heard my dog scream and I just reached down and actually picked him up by his collar. My puppy took about a minute to stop shrieking hysterically, but fortunately, he doesn't seem to have any serious injuries. Covered in dog slobber, and some tender bits, and I will be taking him to the vet, but I think from a physical standpoint at least, I got him out of there in time. I don't know when, because everything happened incredibly fast, but my handbag was spilled out all over the ground. I was almost in tears, and I turned to the woman and asked her what the hell she thought she was doing, having a dog like that off the lead. She said she was very sorry, and admitted that he had done it before. She said she thought he had been getting better. I asked what she thought was the possible good outcome in this situation - either her dog kills another, like it would have done with mine, or the dog it attacks is stronger and they both get hurt. More than that, I said I was angry because this is how dog aggressive dogs are created, and that is unforgivable. She agreed and said, yeah, he was attacked as a pup. I asked why are you continuing the cycle? I stayed for about 20 mins, I made my dog talk to all of the dogs in her pack that I deemed submissive and friendly. She said all the rest were fine because they had had puppies... The attacking dog continued to try and attack mine, but I made a point of ignoring him, and leading my dog around the others, patting them myself etc, I wasn't sure what to do but I didn't want to leave with my dog shivering and freaking out at the sight of dogs. I told her that I could report the dog for what had happened here, because he was dangerous, and she said she knew but begged me not to because she said he had already been reported twice, and if it happened again, he would be confiscated. Truthfully, I was thinking I didn't know how to report him anyway, having no idea where they lived or any details about any of them. She said she would keep him on a lead from then on, but when I was around the other side of the pond, I saw him off the lead again. I also saw a couple with some oodle cross thing heading in that direction. I have never been a supporter of BSL, in fact I have actively campaigned against it. I own a doberman, and previously GSD. I believe that it is the owner that makes the dog who and what it is, not the breed. But after today, I am very sad to find that my position has altered. Not because I think bully breeds are inherently bad, but because there are soooo many bad owners out there, and in the wrong hands, some breeds are just too dangerous. I could not move her dog. He was all muscle, his head was massive. I don't think BSL is the best answer, but, given that there is currently nothing in place to ensure that they are only owned by responsible competent people, I feel the only way is apply such an approach. If my dog hadn't been next to me, basically sitting on my feet, I would never have gotten there in time, and to me, having to worry about these sorts of situations is just unacceptable. These dogs seem attract too many of the wrong people and they are destroying the breed. And they don't even know it, because I bet they're not the sort of people who would bother trying to research about their dogs. If ownership of these breeds continues to be completely unregulated, well I am just currently feeling like there's no other option. Sorry for the long post, but this whole event has just really shaken me, and I don't know why the majority of BSL supporters feel the way they do, but after today, I don't feel like it's such an unreasonable concept.

A week ago, I got a new puppy. Since then, I have been taking the puppy to the toilet outside every hour or so, and it has been going very well, with him having only 1-2 accidents and even starting to take himself outside to go. It is a large, protective breed and I have hence been working to train him every day. However, my sister does not have the same attitude towards dogs. Whilst I love her, this is one area on which we strongly disagree, and I don't actually think she should really be allowed to own dogs. She doesn't believe in training or discipline, and buys small dogs so that, "no matter how bad a job I do, they can never hurt anyone." Despite being over a year old, they are not toilet trained, and go wherever whenever. They do not know any commands, and do not come when called. This aside, they're her dogs, and there is nothing I can do about it, (I have been trying to educate her for years, and if anything, my lecturing makes it worse.) My mum insisted on her being allowed to bring her dogs to my house, because otherwise my sister was refusing to come, and like my sister, she doesn't really think dogs need to be treated like dogs, deserve to be treated like dogs, rather than toys... Anyway, they peed all through my living room. Which sucks, but if that was all I'd be fine. But my dog has been suddenly peeing inside as well. And tonight, when I took him outside to go, we waited for 20mins (he usually goes straight away) but he still hadn't. The second we went back inside, he went. What do I do? How do I stop him from thinking he should be going where the other dogs went?

Ditto In that case, the boy was definitely better.

Thanks guys for the answers, I liked the boy a little bit more anyway and now what I'm hearing is that gender won't really make a huge difference, except that perhaps the boys are a bit more loving and affectionate. Can't wait to get my little boy! Please feel free to keep voting and adding comments though, it's very interesting.