melzawelza

Maybe i'm missing the point but you said yourself that the RSPCA's definition is people that have bred a litter in substandard conditions. Substandard. Maybe it is how they define substandard, but I personally have no issues with the above sentence. If someone is breeding in substandard conditions then yes, they should be affected by the legislation. And we all know that just being a member of the ANKC doesn't make you ethical.

*Shakes head* This whole situation is just disgusting.

Thanks for the replies guys. very interesting and useful should I ever come across this myself

Had a friend tell me today that she met someone with a 5mth old pup. The pup was out on a walk going absolutely mental barking and carrying on at everything. It was clear that these behaviours are fear related After having a chat to the owners she found out that the pup was purchased from a pet shop at 16 WEEKS OLD having spent most of his short life in a glass box. The lady was booked to see a behaviouralist having realised that the pup needed help. I'm very interested in opinions on what the prognosis for 'recovery' would be for this pup. Being a critical socialisation issue the pup will always have fear but could a pup like this lead a fairly normal life? what sort of techniques would you use with a pup that is scared of the world? I've seen pups in pet shops close to this age before and despaired for their futures, has anyone ever had experience with a dog that spent the majority of his life in a pet shop and how did the dog turn out?

Hey everyone, I work occasionally at Assistance Dogs Australia, and for those of you who do not know they have a fundraising month called Dogtober. Hanrob started Assistance Dogs Australia back in 1996 and are supporting Dogtober this year. Their goal is $20,000 which will go towards the purchase and training of one dog. Please get behind this great cause and donate by clicking the below link. I know first hand how much $20,000 will mean to them. So far Hanrob has raised $1,134, so please get behind this great cause! http://www.everydayhero.com.au/Hanrob

LOL LOVE IT!!!! so cute

LOL that is so amazing, I love it!!

Ahhhhh Gilbert!! Changed my opinion of Jack Russell's forever when I met him a couple of months ago!! He is looking just gorgeous as usual! Not long after that workshop I had a little Jack come in for training that reminded me of gilbert! Same gorgeous personality but thick as a brick unlike your boy! ahha

I think the short answer to the 'well we breed cows and chickens that way' is to make the point that we don't expect cows and chickens to live with us in our houses and our 'human' lives. A puppy raised with little to no socialisation will not be fitting in well with the kind of 'human' life destined for them.

A regular morning romp through the yard turned into a nightmare for a young Chihuahua named Buster when he was suddenly attacked and taken by a wild coyote in the suburban town of Littleton, Colo. But thanks to two brave pit bull neighbors, the dog survived the frightening encounter and is on the road to a recovery. Four-year-old Buster had just returned from his morning walk with mom Jodi Robinette on July 31, but wanted a little more play time outside. Having already checked the surroundings of her back yard, Robinette felt it safe to let Buster burn off some active energy while she kept an eye out from her living room couch. But not even 30 seconds later, Robinette was back on her feet. "I heard him scream like I've never heard an animal scream before," Robinette tells PEOPLEPets.com. "I instantly knew that an animal got him." After spotting a tail turn the corner of her house, Robinette sprinted to the front of the yard and saw the coyote running off with Buster in his mouth. While Robinette was in pursuit, a pair of pit bulls were on neighborhood watch and ran toward the coyote, on a mission to rescue the poor dog from the vicious abductor. Realizing he was outnumbered, the coyote released Buster and ran off. "The pits followed my dog underneath a bush, guarding him," Robinette recalls. "[They] lay next to him, licked him and protected him." Robinette, a neurosurgery coordinator, wrapped the gravely injured canine in a towel and rushed him to Columbine Animal Hospital. Immediately treated for pain and shock, Buster was scheduled for surgery on Aug. 2 to repair damage to his chest wall on both sides. Dr. Lee Bregitzer performed the operation, and is happy to report that Buster is well on the road to recovery — thanks to the quick thinking of the neighboring dogs. They were "guardian angels for her dog," Dr. Bregitzer says, "disguised as pit bulls." Robinette has nothing but praise and gratitude for the heroic canines, who stepped in quicker than she ever could have. "[They] were looking out for Buster's best interest against the coyote," Robinette says. "They were looking out for my dog." http://www.peoplepets.com/news/amazing/pit...coyote-attack/1

Love it!!!

Haha! Boo sounds lovely! Poppy didn't get Harvey's grunty play noises so everytime he made them she just lay down and rolled over all submissive! I'm sure she will learn how to play with little Harvey this weekend. She's never had playdates with dogs smaller than her! Would love to meet Boo and you one day and let them all have a play! As for the chicken poop....YUCK!!! is all I have to say! She was SO stinky!!! I think he thought she was Boo when she came in Yes Poppy likes Chicken Poop a lot she changed colour She did didn't she! I hope she doesn't do it too much this weekend! Thank's! It took us AGES to think of her name. All the way to north side brisbane and back! She's actually a CKCS X Cavoodle. My god it's amazing how crosses can end up looking like other breeds! I would have sworn she was cross springer!

Okay I'll start at the beginning - what is the overall picture you want to show and why? What problem do you want your documentary to highlight? Yes but a documentary about what? Is your documentary about the conditions at some puppy farms or about the numbers of dogs unwanted that get pts? I read lots of broad terms getting bandied about - and yes I know you are just brainstorming atm - but do you not see the assumption even in this seemingly innocuous statement: highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding Do Rescue and the RSPCA really 'pick up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding? Are you sure about the cause and effect? Do you think it would be interesting, to ignore the pamphlets and slogans and actually source for yourself the reasons why puppies/dogs go from wanted to unwanted. If puppy farms (however you want to define them) disappeared tomorrow, do you think unwanted dogs / puppies would decrease? If not, then is your documentary about the conditions dogs are kept in (the issue with puppy farms) or the numbers of dogs/pups that are no longer wanted and sent to pounds / pts etc The two are not the same, nor can it be said that only puppy farm dogs end up in pounds or pts or have health problems. why do people give up their dogs? lack of care. too hard. too much money. too much legislation. ??? Who said puppy farm pups have their fate predetermined. How many dogs end up in pounds because its too much for the owner to look after, too much for the rescue to look after, too much for the rspca to look after (well RSPCA dogs dont end up in other pound their dogs end up in their dumpster) All the while, you will get the PC ad nauseum of how to look for a 'good' breeder how to source a good puppy from a wholesome establishment blah blah blah What about the human component? This is an amazing post! Thankyou so much, Lilli! Your post has made me re-think all my original ideas, and I think I want to take a NEW route, the route you have mentioned: "the reasons why puppies/dogs go from wanted to unwanted." That sums up what we've all really been discussing, but i didn't really have a clear direction in my head. I think that would be a fascinating, educational and heartbreaking documentary all in one. The idea has direction and I think the investigating would be an eye opener not just for joe public but even for myself. Sure part of the doco would address puppy farms, but there is so much MORE to be addressed when it comes to that simple question. Thank you thank you thank you!!

Yay! isn't it wonderful when they finally get it!! Let me guess - cross springer spaniel? She is very pretty!

The ticks make my skin crawl. Those poor dogs.

That's pretty incredible Mrs Rusty Bucket!!! I'm hoping the spray collar will work for this dog. We aren't allowed to use e-collars here and it drives me nuts.

And can I just say that posts like this are fantastic, Lilli. Thank you. You really have me thinking about what exactly it is that I want out of this documentary. This is also a fantastic post, thankyou Souff. Yourself in this thread and someone else made the point of 'clean' puppy farms that health test etc but kennel the dogs and pups - that was one thing I was thinking the behaviourist could discuss in the interview. The fact that raising puppies the same way we raise agricultural animals does not fly, no matter how clean, because we are expecting these puppies to grow up to live in a human world. All the cleanliness in the world doesn't change the fact that these puppies are undersocialised with humans, other dogs and 'life' in general. The point of critical socialisation periods could be made and a discussion from the behaviouralist of the common issues then seen as a result of that start to life.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay. I can't quite tell if you are being rude and sarcastic or not, but if so then maybe you'd like to be a bit more civil. I very much value the points you are making and am considering them thoroughly, there is no need to be rude. Without going into the inverse relationship between civility and rudeness - If you cant quite tell if I'm being rude and sarcastic, then Im probably not. If that was not your intention then I apologise. Could you then explain the intent behind this post? Like I said before, I have found your posts quite valuable, and if this one did have a useful purpose, rather than the way that I took it, i'd like to understand it. Ways to go about things and ideas Vs what it actually is that you want to portray, are quite different. Is this what you want to do: highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding That is a small part of the overall picture that I was thinking may be valuable to show. Again, if anyone gave be a reason why this would not be a good idea then I would consider it and change my view if I agreed. Please remember that at the moment I am just bouncing around ideas. My friend will not be able to start on this for quite some time due to her current project, and we only discussed the prospect of this documentary two days ago. All of the things I am mentioning are things that I have thought may add value to the documentary, and I am posting them here to see others opinions of whether those ideas are worthwhile or not. I have not figured out or set in stone any sort of structure or 'narrative' (for want of a better word), and will not do that until I have thought long and hard about, like you said, what it is I want to portray and the way to go about it. I DO want to create a factual documentary that does not rely on emotions or manipulation to get the point across. I want people to give me constructive criticism on ideas and tell me exactly why they may or may not be a good idea.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay. I can't quite tell if you are being rude and sarcastic or not, but if so then maybe you'd like to be a bit more civil. I very much value the points you are making and am considering them thoroughly, there is no need to be rude. If i was already set on exactly what I wanted to do, why would I be posting here asking for suggestions for ways to go about things and ideas? I think that every point you've made is very valid, however you run the risk of people switching off with that know it all, holier than thou attitude. Luckily I am not hat kind of person and am taking everything you are saying on board. Apologies if that was not your intent, but it is coming across that way. Melzawelza, I suspect that Lilli also knows the agenda of some of those who have given you advice earlier in this thread. Their agenda is not the agenda of responsible dog breeders who use this forum which was in fact set up for breeders of purebred dogs, it was not a forum set up for the animal libbers but they are now here in their droves but they dont identify the organisation that they are from. Its a secret you see If you want to make a doco that will not just be the same as the rest, you would be well advised to set up some dialogue with people like Lilli. At the monent you are actually coming across as haughty in your response to Lilli. I hope you can make a doco that is more to the truth of the matter than many of the docos have been in the past and that it is truly reflective of the Australian scene. By doing that you might be doing the dogs a favour. To be sucked into the mantra of the animal libbers in this thread you wont be doing the dogs many favours at all. Best of luck with your doco Souff Souff, I have found both yours and lilli's posts a great help in this thread. You both have made me think about the sorts of ideas I was having and both gave great constrctive criticism on previous ideas from me and the other posters. I would value you both continuing to post. I don't,however, find lilli's last post about writing a screenplay to be constructive at all. It came across as very sarcastic, quite rude and also demeaning. I definitely want to hear why certain ideas may not work, but I don't think it's necessary to ridicule. I hope lilli keeps posting but follows her original interesting, constructive tone, not the tone of her last post.

Great, looks like you have your storyline all set, now you just need to conjure the screenplay. I can't quite tell if you are being rude and sarcastic or not, but if so then maybe you'd like to be a bit more civil. I very much value the points you are making and am considering them thoroughly, there is no need to be rude. If i was already set on exactly what I wanted to do, why would I be posting here asking for suggestions for ways to go about things and ideas? I think that every point you've made is very valid, however you run the risk of people switching off with that know it all, holier than thou attitude. Luckily I am not hat kind of person and am taking everything you are saying on board. Apologies if that was not your intent, but it is coming across that way.

I've heard that too! However I can't seem to find them anywhere!

Unfortunately bark collars that use a stim are illegal to use in NSW. When using a 'spray' bark collar, what is the best way to ensure the dog doesn't become collar smart? Is it as simple as putting it on the dog for a few hours here and there without it being turned on, or is there more to it than that? Also- it's so hard to find a spray collar that isn't scented!! I've found one model by innotek that has unscented spray however it only uses a mic to pick up the barking and I don't want the dog to be corrected for another dog barking or another loud noise nearby

You're right - there are pedigree breeders that are essentially puppy farmers too, so I want to focus on what needs to be looked for in a breeder if you want a sound, healthy, happy puppy. I meant to mention earlier too - I want to focus on RESCUE as opposed to adopting straight from the pound/rspca. Most people I come across understand they can get a dog straight from the pound but have no idea what rescue or foster carers are. Most of these people don't want a rescue because they understandably worry about the temperament of the dog , and adopting straight from the pound this is a legitimate concern. I want to show what rescue is, show the foster carers that have the dogs in their homes for a few months plus in order to determine the dogs good points and points that need work on - and match someone up suitably. I think if more people knew they could get a rescue dog from a home environment with a good idea of the dogs temperament they would be much more inclined to go down that route. It's also of course a way to highlight the hard work these wonderful people put in to 'picking up the pieces' that are a result of puppy farms, pet shops and indiscriminate breeding.

No, I definitely agree with you , which is why I will be focusing mostly on ETHICAL breeders over what kind of dogs they breed. I will definitely be showing pedigree breeders as lets be honest, they are the ones who are usually doing the right thing, but the point will be made of WHAT to look for in a breeder re health testing and everything else that pedigree breeders do. If there's a backyarder out there who is doing everything that a pedigree breeder does then in my opinion they are an ethical breeder. I don't have anything against crosses in themselves, in fact I love 'em- but what I dont like is the WAY most of them are bred. I think if I show pedigree breeders ONLY and am too heavy handed with that point it runs the risk of what you said- feeling like a pro pedigree doco as opposed to an anti puppy farm, and that isn't what I want. I do want to show them in a positive light though to hopefully sway the idea a lot of people have that pedigree dogs are only for people that show. I will however be showing rescue as a big alternative for people who want a heinz (althought not all people want a rescue either) Thanks for this great post. I see first hand just working as a basic obedience trainer the issues puppy farmed dogs can had (Had a little oodle girl last week that would toilet in her bed and sleep in it, and completely freak out if put into a small space or a crate, poor little mite). Inteviewing some trainers and behaviourists would be great. And yes, it's true how most people are saying it would be hard to get willing participants to interview that were surrendering their dogs. I like your idea of following a few that have information from their surrender sheets. We could possibly also use the visuals of allll the rehoming ads on gumtree. Cut a bunch of shots of them together, focusing on the most common reasons ("we're moving", "we want someone who can take him for walks", "we have kids now so don't have time for him anymore"). There are SO MANY dogs listed on there every day - we could go through the listing and count how many rehomings on one website in one day, and list that number.

Thanks for the kind words everyone!! This is a great point - back in the day pet shop dogs would most likely be an accidental litter or a byb. I think a lot of people still believe that this is the case. Shedding light on the fact that the odds say their puppy was raised in a cage may get people to think twice. I think a point that should be made too is how EXPENSIVE pet shop puppies are these days. I think a lot of people see pet shop dogs for $1500 and think that pedigrees would have to be twice that by now. The reality is the majority of pedigrees are cheaper than the oodles in the pet shop! -Defintely- will address the health problems! And hopefully juxtapose that with all that ethical breeders do to ensure that those problems stay out of their puppies. Love the idea of interviewing people that no longer want their dogs, and following pups through their 'journey'. I definitely would not be aiming to lump registered ethical breeders in with the puppy farmers. I would be looking to juxtapose the quality of life for puppy farmed dogs with the quality of life of pups bred by ethical breeders. I would ideally like to interview some breeders should they like to be involved, show the thought and love that goes into breeding good quality dogs - the COST to the breeder (juxtaposed against the amount of money the puppy farmers make). Maybe interview some of that breeder's puppy buyers - some with young dogs some with old dogs- to show the relationship that can be built with a good breeder and the support received. I am of the belief of most on this forum - that the only ethical way to source a dog is through an ethical registered breeder or rescue. I agree that I would like it to be factual rather than emotional. There are enough facts when it comes to puppy farms that you don't need to use emotions to get the point across.