Zug Zug

Blackbronson for our purposes the limited register is fine. I do think it depends what you want the dog for. I don't see myself showing (well, I dream occasionally but it's delusional) and I don't see myself breeding. I do competitive obedience, my friend is looking for a pet. We don't care if the ears sit funny or the tail is carried wrong or there are mismarked colours or whatever. We want healthy, sound puppies with a temperament that suits obed (in my case) and family life (in both cases). So for me, limited register fine, desexing fine, limitations on health care and grooming options not quite so fine. But yes I understand it depends on what you see yourself doing with your dog.

Thanks for all your replies. It has been very interesting reading the different viewpoints and I think I have a clearer understanding now what is going on here. First thing - one of the breeders we spoke with lives on a different planet to my friend and I (but that's ok - there are other fish in the sea) Second thing - she was almost certainly talking about 'breeder's terms' rather than selling a pet (which is what my friend and I are talking about) so we were probably at cross purposes to begin with. I'll certainly keep looking around and meeting other breeders, and I hope my friend does not resort to a pet shop option. I should also clarify that in this case (for my friend) we were talking about a male puppy, for a pet only. She intends to get a pup and have it desexed. Just looking for the right pup now. I should also clarify that the list included in my original post came from discussions with 2 different breeders (one for her, one a few months ago for me). So while this latest phone call yesterday was a bit overwhelming, that person was not responsible for the entire list of conditions in my OP (which is probably obvious because some of them contradict each other). ETA - just to clarify yes it was a condition not to vaccinate for anything, ever. The breeder in question was strongly opposed to any form of vaccination.

I wondered about that. Especially with feeding and aspects of medical care. I mean, these things can change over a dog's life and our knowledge can change too so how could you be held to something that was set down at a point in time? Are there any aspects of an agreement that are legally enforceable? Or is the whole thing really just a statement of good intentions?

Rubystar, she's a pound dog so we will never know what she's crossed with. We think probably a kangaroo that knew how to climb trees. Then again, maybe that's just the poodle bit! :D Sas important point. I guess I'd like to stay in touch (and on good terms) with the breeder I eventually buy from though.

Oh thanks SecretKei! She was a tricky dog when I first got her 10 years ago but soooooo much a part of me now. I know poodle x's are a bit of a no-no on this website, but she was a pound dog so I think I'm allowed to brag she's still pretty cute and very fit for an old gal! Now that you've got me started - here is a photo of my 2 beautiful older dogs: (ETA oh ok 2 more photos as well)

Yes fair to say I don't think she felt encouraged. A health guarantee is not something I am familiar with. When I got my bichon (from a pet shop - if only I knew then what I know now...) he turned out to be very sick and within 2 days he was at the vet getting emergency treatment for what they said was corona virus. It was touch and go - I nearly lost him several times. I asked the pet shop to help pay the vet bills on that occasion. They declined - but said I could bring my dog back for a refund if I wished. They said they would put him out the back and re-sell him if he survived his illness. I kid you not! That wasn't an option for me. 2 days in I was already committed to him. I just spent the money and luckily he got well and 12 years later he's still the perfect dog. In that case I had spent $320 on buying the pup (my, how things have changed haven't they?) and I spent over $1,000 at the vet in the first 2 weeks I had him. That was just emergency care - didn't include the vaccinations, microchipping, desexing etc. which all came later. I wanted the pet shop to contribute the $320 I had paid them towards his veterinary care. But I didn't want to give him back to them, so it didn't happen. Not a good experience, but he's a great dog so it was all was worth it. But I won't go back to a pet shop. Their approach to his welfare really shocked me. They just did not care.

SBT123 you obviously care deeply about your pups. If I was wanting a pup from you I'd want to find out more about why you didn't want them to have different vaccines, what alternatives you would suggest, what protection those alternatives would offer, and then I'd have to make my decision whether I supported that approach. I agree with an earlier post that it would not be right to take a pup from a breeder, agree to their terms, and then ignore them and do something else. That would be dishonest and disrespectful of the breeder's commitment to the pup's welfare. At the same time, that also means making a very careful decision about what conditions I would agree to, because I would be standing by those commitments so I'd need to be sure. Because in the end I'm going to love this dog and I need to be sure I am giving it the best care and upbringing I can.

Fair enough - that is not your dog in that case you are boarding it for the breeder essentially. And I guess you may or may not keep it down the track depending on what you both agree. Not what was being discussed today, but I can see why a breeder may want that as an option from time to time, at their cost. ETA: this was in reply to Greytmate's post.

The red ones are soooo pretty. What gorgeous pups!

Mystiqview I think that list is very reasonable and there is nothing there that I would be concerned about. Actually I think I would take it as a sign that you are doing the right thing for your dogs - something I am looking for and wanting to find in a breeder. For myself, I'm still looking - plenty of time. For my friend - well I hope she hangs in there. One of the worst things that was said to her today was that her (very much loved) dog died at 11 years old because she had been vaccinating him. I am angry about that actually. What kind of person says something like that to someone who has just told them how brokenhearted they were when their dog died a year ago due to a brain tumour!!!??? Luckily this friend of mine is made of tough stuff. She knows she took excellent care of her dog and his death was not her fault.

Great idea! OK, here goes... Standard Poodle Australian Shepherd Lagotto Tibetan Terrier Flat Coated Retriever Deerhound Border Collie (blue merle would be nice or one of the blonde ones) Miniature Poodle Portugese Water Dog Kelpie ETA: Oh and I grew up with a whippet and still absolutely love them, so you'll need to let me have 11! ETA again: and I have a Bichon Frise now and I will always love them too, so you'll need to let me have 12! How do you all manage to stop????

Oops - double post sorry.

As I said, the deal-breaker for me was the idea of not being allowed to take the dog to a vet - any vet. For anything. That's just not going to happen. But there are several on that list that would make me walk away. And some I would take in my stride very happily. For example, in my case I think: desex the dog - yep no problems always have vaccinate the dog - yep but probably a bit less often than we all used to do it but I want my dog well protected raw diet - I don't know would need to think about that one breeder's vet - nope I like my vet breeder's groomer - nope I like to do it myself But everyone is different aren't they? My responses and issues will be different to the next person's.

I don't really want to say which breed because people might start trying to guess who we're talking about and I don't want it to become a personal thing. SBT123 I guess that's what it boils down to - finding another breeder. In this case there was no request for a guarantee for the puppy or whatever, to be honest the conversation didn't go that far. But as I said for myself I'm comfortable with some conditions, but there are some things I just think are the owner's decision (and responsibility) not the breeder's. For example, I would be very reluctant to go with a breeder who wanted to prevent me from vaccinating my dog. I had never heard of this before and I was a bit taken aback. Objected to heartworm protection too. I just think those things are important. I'd be really interested to hear what kinds of conditions would you consider to be normal practice? If I have some understanding of that, perhaps I'll be less surprised in future and I can think through what I am happy with and what I am not happy with.

Yeah it was a bit like that. I've been spending some time convincing this friend of mine to buy from a registered breeder. I'd convinced her but I think she might have become un-convinced after today's experience with one breeder.

I've been making some enquiries with a few breeders over the past few months, in the lead-up to possibly getting my next puppy next year. I also made a phone call to a breeder on behalf of a close friend today, because 12 months on from the death of her beloved dog she is now ready to look for another one. It has been a long time since I've looked for a dog. My 2 are 11 and 12 years old. So I'm not sure if a lot has changed or if I just wasn't aware previously of how many conditions breeders are putting on people who want to purchase puppies from them. So far, the list (albeit not all from the same breeder) includes: - it needs to be desexed (fair enough) - it cannot be desexed until it is an adult and the breeder wants the option to take it back if it is of show quality (if not, then you can desex it and keep it) - it needs to be regularly vaccinated - it is not allowed to be vaccinated for anything ever - it needs to go to the breeder's vet, not yours - it can never be taken to any vet but needs to be taken back to the breeder herself if anything is ever wrong with it (this one is an absolute deal-breaker for me I have to say - if my dog is sick it's going to my vet end of story - but I digress...) - it needs to be fed on a raw diet only - it needs to go to a groomer of the breeder's choice - no kids And that's all I can think of for now, but that's just what I can remember and the list goes on. I expected some conditions to be placed on a puppy buyer, and I am a very responsible dog owner and happy to agree to things like keeping the dog fenced, safe, well cared for, return to breeder if we ever can't keep it etc. But some of the things in the list above make me think 'Who's dog will this be? Yours or mine?' I'm wondering if this is normal practice now. What kinds of conditions do people think are fair and reasonable? And how much is too much?

Stay training going really well at the moment. Have had a few chances to train with other dogs around - she seems a lot better (but it's nothing like a trial ring so who knows?). Starting to think maybe we can go ahead with the 2 trials at the end of May anyway. But not sure. Alternative is putting her in vintage at Dover instead. No vintage/vets class at German Shepherd trial so it's all or nothing at that one.

Yep - check the ears. That would always be my first thought with a poodle. Definitely makes them shake their heads.

Definitely. I can't afford to get a dog first, then do the allergy thing. What if it didn't work? I'd have to re-home the dog. This actually happened to me once many years ago I got an Italian Greyhound thinking they were low-allergy and I had to find it a new home. I still think about that little dog and wonder how she is. I couldn't go through that again. I'd need to get the allergy treatment, then test myself out with other people's dogs until I was absolutely sure. Too risky otherwise. So maybe I should get some treatment now, so I have plenty of time to test it. Worth thinking about. Anyone else tried it? (Phew! Dog just farted under the desk I'm typing at. I might head off to bed now! )

I have a dog hair allergy. Quite a bad one - I get itchy and snuffly and sneazy and irritated. For that reason I have curly dogs (bichon and a poodle x) because the wooly hair doesn't set me off. But I've heard of people who get treated for their allergies, and I'm wondering if I did that, maybe I could open up a few different breeds to consider for my next dog. I am a bit hesitant. I love poodles and think 'well it works so why change'. But I also love a lot of other breeds but have to rule them out because their hair makes me sick. Has anyone on here been treated for dog hair allergies (and yes it is probably dander rather than hair but I've never found out for sure)? And did it work? Was it worth it? Was it effective enough that you can be around any breed now, or just some dogs or breeds?

Yep he called her a pit bull a few times - as a compliment I think because he clearly loves the bully breeds and I think had a big soft spot for Pele (with good reason - she's a great dog!). She worked beautifully for him - a real kick in her step - perhaps she was in leeeerrrrvv!

A great day I thought - and some great food (thanks KHM). Thoughts from others? The main one I came away with was that I thought I was going there to learn about training in drive, and as cool as that was I've actually come away thinking long and hard about dog aggression issues. All very valuable from my perspective.

I haven't had any pugs, but did put my sister's beagle on a weight control plan once with great success. Keys to success were: 1 - measure her food and stick to the amount she actually needed (no feeling sorry for her - be strong) 2 - regular walks In a few months she went from resembling an old lactating sow (I kid you not) to looking like a trim sporty beagle who looked 5 years younger. Do find a food that agrees with your dog's digestive system, but also be strong - feed less and give more (gentle) exercise. It works I promise.

Oh good I hope so. I'm definitely going - I can't miss it now. I've been looking forward to this for months!

Oh no - my work email is busted and I can't print off my ticket. And I've just read above that you need to have your ticket and I can't do it. I hope they let me in - I paid up months ago!!!