Icemist

A score of 10 to me is fine, but you would always hope for lower, but it would not stop me. 20 IMO I would have 2nd and 3rd thoughts about using a dog with that score. The dog would have to be super fantasic, before you even think about it, and there is no super fantasic dogs around. As for a 4-1 score, you want each side as close as possible, but this score is still very acceptable due to its low score. In some parts of Europe it is a Grade A2, other parts a B. This score any breeder would be happy with. As for naming dogs and critasizing breeders and dogs on a public forum, I would advise be very careful, as it can open a can of worms. Now that I would agree with What about a score of say 6:10 Rob what you go ahead or would that be pushing it Total score of 16, this is still under the average. depends on the dog. What it is like, what the parents scores are, what the parents are like etc, the lines. A number of factors need to be considered. I would not say no, and I would not yes. I have breed with a bitch with a score of 16 before. Yes. To a dog that was 12. Both still under the average. I got a bitch with a total score of 5. Greatly lower than both parents. This same bitch went with top line food products, played but never exercised exessively, never walked up stairs etc. Now the grand parents of this bitch were around 7 to 8. The great grand parents were around the same mark. This is not a good example, but it shows that scores can bounce around from generation to generation pending on factors.

As also discussed previously about hips, is you could still have a 0 and 0 score and still throw a large score. Unlikey, but can happen. Also there are enviromental factors at play as previously discussed, food exercise etc. All of this has parts to play. Breeders also have to juggle the good with the bad when deciding on what to breed which dog with a bitch. Sometimes it turns out good and sometimes bad. Genetics comes into play. Most breeders including the one that this particular dog is from will try to do the right thing with what is being breed, but sometimes things do not always work out the way they are planned. Very much like life itself. Genetics is a funny thing, it can't be controlled, and even when you think you have got it picked and think you will know what you will get, it will bite you, and this goes for the same as this famous saying "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get"

A score of 10 to me is fine, but you would always hope for lower, but it would not stop me. 20 IMO I would have 2nd and 3rd thoughts about using a dog with that score. The dog would have to be super fantasic, before you even think about it, and there is no super fantasic dogs around. As for a 4-1 score, you want each side as close as possible, but this score is still very acceptable due to its low score. In some parts of Europe it is a Grade A2, other parts a B. This score any breeder would be happy with. As for naming dogs and critasizing breeders and dogs on a public forum, I would advise be very careful, as it can open a can of worms.

Hi, Zero hip scores are rare in this breed, only maybe 4 or 5 dogs are known to have this score. So this is unrealistic. A score of 5 is very good IMO and I would be checking more into the dogs scores, and getting an actual score instead of Good. WS is correct in saying the average is 16.5 and would look at a max around this score, pending on what you are looking to do with the puppy. I am aware of what I beleive is the only current Canadian Iimport in this country, down in VIC. The sire of the dog is one of my fav's, and had a chance at one stage to bring in a puppy or semen from him, but was always scepticual on how the lines mixed with Australian lines. It would be interesting to see photos of the puppy if you get one.

The vet I use if from Canberra. He does the Australian Federal Police (AFP) and Customs dogs. PM me and I can give you details if you wish.

I had a bitch that didn't come in for 2 years. Spoke to 2 dog fertility expert's, one from melbourne and another, Sydney way, and they both perscribed Dostinex (spelling). Can't remember the dosage. Put my bitch on it, and sure enough, within a month, she was in season. If you PM me, I can give you the details on who to speak to down this way.

Hi Spirrall, Welcome. Great to see barney and pudding, Barney's looking like he is coming into some coat. Give him a big cuddle from me.

Size of coat comes down to the individual dog and their coat. Most males have a bigger coats than females, but you will also have some bitches with a bigger coat than some males. So it all depends on the individual dog. To me when they drop coat, it comes out, I don't measure volume, it just all needs to come out so there is no difference to me as it needs to be done, But basically with regular grooming especially during these periods, it will not matter wether it is a dog or a bitch, you still will need to pull coat out, but it will be over a couple or few weeks. And you will find hair everywhere. So to me, theirs no real difference as I need to spend the time grooming, at any stage of their life.

Hi, I wouldn't say really any excess grooming as grooming should be done regularly, as the dog will not drop their coat in one sitting. It will usually take a couple of weeks for a full drop, so you would take out bit by bit as they drop. As for the hair in the house, Samoyed hair is just a part of life. There will always be hair in the house, even in rooms that the dog has never been. The hair usually sticks and gets carried around. In rooms, on clothes, furnture etc. Its just a part of having a Sammy.

Great pic's. its a tough job keeping 6 dogs staying put for any length of time, especially to take photos.

Off the topic abit here, well not really, I am trying to help someone find judges for some shows up this way. Must have multiple groups inc Utility, and must not have judged up this way for a very long time, or have not judged this way at all. PM me if anyone has any ideas.

Who is judging in August?

Expecting Mumma (and past mumma) is doing well. She's full of life, still very active and has a sparkle in her eye. She enjoys her belly being rubbed with nursery rimes sung to her!

Icemist I am aware of your litter due, and very excited to know how it all goes. The Sire is a dog I loved and his daughter I treasured I wish you all the very best with it and will be waiting to hear news :D It will be close, depending on when she goes..they will either just make it or just miss out. Good luck! It looks like the owners of the dog, have let the cat of of the bag. ;) DW was very excited to hear she was preg. I think JW worked out they would just miss the national, but I will have to check myself, after they hit the ground. Anyway Im very exicted as I have always wanted a pup directly from him. He has thrown some very nice pups in the past inc Tamiera .

Sonnet is looking nice, very cute.

Thanks Icemist :D Little paws are exciting, we were considering having a litter from Coco which would meant we would have 4-5week old puppies at Nationals time, but it would mean mum or I would have had to stay home and I absolutely love the National and have been looking forward to it for over a year now so we decide to have a litter from Coco and Shimmer after the National. (I don't know whether two at once is more crazy). Queensland are going to put on a show, some of the things they are doing they are setting the bar extremely high. So you don't know if your girl is pregnant yet? For those that have no idea what the National is: It is a dog show held once every three years. Moving around different states, this time it is in Brisbane, Qld and the following will be held in Melbourne, Vic. It is judged by a specialist from overseas and Samoyeds from all around Australia attend. It is the biggest Samoyed show. I have a second litter planned, if all goes well and she comes in, around the time of national. I am still looking for possible sires so my mind is still open to who she will go to. The girl will be Star. http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/profile.asp?dog=30622 I also have a special litter due in approx 3 weeks. Can't wait, but can't say much until the pups hit the ground..literaly. Too much can still go wrong and I don't want to jinx this as I only get one shot at it. I am unsure if any goss has gotten out about the pregnancy, and people do know about it. All I'll say is that the dog has long past, and their are a couple of people down your way chomping at the bit waiting to see what is born, and have their fingers and toes crossed. The pups I think will be too young for the National. These two are the only litters I have planned for what I will think the next 18 months to 2 years. ;)

I completely agree with you Icemist Kalina is the foundation of Australian Samoyeds and we have Mrs Y Sydenham-Clarke to thank for that. Some of the stunning dogs - Eng & Aust Ch. Imperial Rebel of Kobe (imp UK), Ch. Kalina Kirof Kozak, Ch. Kalina Uki Tochka, Ch. Kalina Silver Troika (to name a couple) played a part in the establishment of our beautiful breed and it is because of the Kalina Kennels. In Vic, we have a recently introduced a Kalina Trophy at our yearly Championship Show, which is awarded to an Import or progeny of an import to knowledge the wonderful contribution Mrs Sydenham-Clark did by importing loving dogs and establishing lines here in Australia. Kalina is definitely a name everyone knows in Australia and around the world. I enjoy looking at the old dogs and the lines, especially photo's on the original Samoyeds, they really haven't changed that much as time goes on. In regards to keeping in contact with puppy buyers, we like to know our puppies are well and happy and try and keep a relationship with their owners long after the puppies grow up. This way if the person comes into a situation where they can no longer care for the puppy, hopefully we will be their first to call. It is always nice to feel they can turn to the breeder for advise as I think Malo appreciated the relationship with her breeder. A puppy buyer sent me photo's the other day of Tamiera's (Ch Airebis Arctic Whispers) Son and Daughter, they are 9 years old and 11 years old and very happy. It brought a tear to my eye as they are very similar to her. As for Victorian Dogs, we have a large number of very competitive Samoyeds in Victoria (I think we average the highest entry at shows). So there's more to choose from here plus we have a few imports. I am looking forward to the National in June to see all the dogs around Australia. Icemist are you heading to the National? Hi Kelza, Welcome to the forum. I actually didnt recognise you with your first couple of posts. I don't think my brain was in gear! Too much going on at the moment. I have been thinking about going to the national, but I am hoping to hear the sound of little paws and play fighting around that time if all goes to plan.

So sorry to hear of your loss It is such a hard decision to make, but lovely that you can help her when she must have needed to be free. She has her wings now. RIP Beautiful Tara. I don't think anyone wrote them off, i thought we all said that we didn't have any experience or knowledge of SA breeders? I think Icemist may have said something like that and he's not even in Victoria Please pass the details of this breeder onto Bonnie Parker as i'm sure she would prefer to be able to go and meet the breeders personally, so it's great that you, a local, have seen this thread Hi, Sorry about your loss Melo. It is hard losing part of your family, especially a Sammy. They love you unconditionally through the good times and the bad times. I understand that are upset by your loss, but what I said was "In SA, there are a few, but you will get better quality from VIC." I look at this as a State wide view (eg Vic v NSW), not as a single or individual breeder ( eg Icemist v Skyforger). VIC has always had the strongest dogs and lines. There was no writing off of SA breeders, and I DID NOT say that the quality coming from SA was poor or anything like that, I said that the quality (breeding) of Samoyed is better in VIC (state wide view). And this goes for all the States and Territories. Traditionally, and history of this breed, going back to the 1950 -60's with the "Great and Legendry" Kalina Kennels in Victoria have always dominated with the quality of the breed. That is why nearly ALL the top Samoyed breeders through out Australia have started and gone on from strength to strength because of those dogs that have come from the boundaries within VIC, including the ones in SA. This is still happening today. Most breeders when looking for a stud dog will investigate VIC due to the vast amounts of breeders and the quality they produce within that state. All the top Kennels today and in yester-year in Australia, have all started with Kalina stock or from Kalina stock (VIC). A FACT that is not, can not be debated by anyone with knowledge into the history of the breed. Mrs Eve Sydenham-Clarke, owner of Kalina, is WORLD recognised, and is without doubt, will go down in history within this breed, and all breeds. She is the Grand Mother to all Samoyeds in this country. She brought into this country, and has bred some of Australia's greatest Samoyeds. which will be behind nearly every Samoyeds lines (exception to the current imports). It is good that your breeder has supported you for 10 years. IMO, who ever your breeder is, if they have supported you, through thick and thin, I will pat them on the back. There should be more support from breeder’s wether the pups are pets or show. It’s good to hear this, and there is no offense to your breeder or others from any state, by saying what have said. My Views being a second generation breeder, being within the breed since 1975, trialling and showing Samoyeds since 1985...... and yes I know what breeders are breeding in all states inc SA....I also know the history of the breed to make my opinion. And this is my opinion alone without be biased or impartial to any breeder within Australia.

Hi, I hope no offence is taken here, but I would seek advice from a second vet practice. But if this dog was mine, I would be x-raying. The reason I say seek other advice is I know of cases where a vet has decided that an operation is needed. The owners have got a second opinion, and have found out that an Op was not needed and was rectified in other ways. There was even one vet that said a dog that I breed was infertile...complete infertile......HE THEN SIRED TWO LITTERS WITHIN TWO MONTHS OF THE DIAGNOSIS!!!! without any treatments. I call it immaculate conception. (I think he had approx 16 pups from the 2 litters). Not bad from a boy without any live sperm! So vets do get it wrong. Get a second opinion. Some vets are specialist in areas. Toughgirl....find a specialist!

I think her hip score alone shot the breed average through the roof.... (just kidding) But youve got to wonder how many other Sammies have scored really high

I am unsure when the scores changed in Australia, maybe in 1985, unsure, but Lady was scored in the first week of Feb 1986, and they were scoring out of 53 per side, total 106, type of score. it would be interesting to see when this was actually brought in, looks like sometime between 1983 and at the end of 1985.

Also you guy's need to understand. I have a 3yo Samoyed that has HD, over extended hock joints, and recently shoulder problems that are only slightly improving after 2 weeks of pain meds and cartrophen injection. If it doesn't show major signs of improvement in the next week, my boy may have OCD which, I think, is usually hereditary. But I love my boy other than his health probs he has a wonderful temperament and he is beautiful! So I am a bit peeved that maybe the breeder knew about some of these things and didn't tell me what I was in for. I mean you guy's know more than I do, could she have known or at least suspected these problems due to his parents? XXToughgirlXX Hi, Having first hand experience with this, I will tell you a little story...... Sammie’s with HD. In 1985 my parents purchased a Samoyed from a very recognised breeder (not breeding anymore). Her name was 'Lady'. At 6 months of age, her first show as a Minor puppy she won Best Exhibit In Group. A week later she could not walk. She had HD. She was scored at 104 out of 106. She had No Hips. The WORST possible. We were told to put her down. My parents gave her every chance. The breeder said it was OUR FAULT! The breeders even wanted to still breed with her. Lady was put on high doses of Dolomite tablets, Vit C, was given acupuncture, and did a lot of swimming. She built up muscle around where the hips should have been, and she lived to just over 10 years of age. 9 1/2 years longer than she should have been. These are things you should try. I recommend it. During her life, nobody could ever believe she had HD, let alone an extremely severe case. Lady went on to obtain her Aust Ch title, her CD obedience title, won first in the Open Bitch class at the 1988 Australian Bicentennial Show in Canberra, and came (Scored) in 3rd place from over 130 dogs in the Bicentennials Novice obedience Trial. Won Obedience Point Scores etc. She even went to jumping in CDX. She was x-rayed again and still came back with the result of 104. Her muscle held her legs into place. For anyone that has a hip dysplastic dog, don't give up... above is an example why....she and we treasured her 9 1/2 extra years. Now HD, I believe, as with many breeders, the hereditary part does have a major influence. That is why we x-ray......even though some breeders do x-ray, get bad scores, will still breed with those dogs.......oh my, did I say that, how naughty of me! Their is evidence and belief that HD is not just hereditary. It is also environmental. What do I mean by environmental... From what the breeder feed the litter from weaning to they go to their new homes, to what the new owners feed. The food in which the puppy has been on i.e. dry food, meat etc, puppy milk, basically not the correct diet, too much (extra) exercise, i.e. long walks, walking and running up of stairs (sorry if I come back to this point), excessive and rough play with older dogs that jump on top of the puppy, as well as the puppy/dog being severely over weight. These are just a couple of things. As a breeder, I inform and stress the impacts that the above can have on all of a puppies joints (not just hips), from feed to play, and try to put, and teach any of my puppy owners to take it slow with exercising and to feed the correct diet. From this, your puppy will be off to a good and healthy start to life, right through to after retirement. Having a HD dog in the past, has opened my eyes up about this subject.

Hi, I have a bitch to whelp in the next few weeks and I am looking to move her on a good puppy dry food. She also has a mixture of raw meat, rice pasta vegies etc. Can anyone recommend a good puppy dry food to put her on.

I agree, and i wasn't being sarcastic or anything. I literally meant it exactly that way, that it is because they're providing her with a ball of white fluff so of course they're the best! I just wanted to point out that that was the reason - not due to opinions of breeding practices/champion dogs/exports/imports. I sounded rude but it wasn't meant that way!! You put it better thats alright, don't worry about me, I'm just having one of those days. Its about time you got another fluff ball. Anything in the pipe line?