4Kelpies

Jules I'm sorry to hear that you've reached this sad stage with your old girl. I'm sure you'll know if she is ready to go. I think there is a lot of pressure on dog owners to make "the decision" when our dogs get old. I don't think there is anything wrong with letting an animal die peacefully of old age as long as it isn't suffering. I have to say that so far none of my animals has gone quietly in its sleep, I've always had to make the decision for them and I have no doubts that I made the right decision at the right time as they were suffering from cancer, heart conditions, a broken leg or navicular disease (horses.) Animals belonging to friends of mine have just slowed down and died in their sleep and I think this is the best way to go. I keep hoping this will be the case with my dogs but I know I may have to step in and stop their suffering.Make the most of your time with Fern as it will be gone only too soon. The Caninecancer list has a quality of life scale called "HHHHHMM", which stands for: hurt, hunger, hydration, hygiene, happiness, mobility and more good days than bad days. Do you think Fern is in pain? Is she still enjoying food? It doesn't matter if she isn't eating as much as in her younger days as long food is still enjoyable. Is she able to eat and drink enough? Incontinence can be managed but if dogs are losing control of their bowels and lying in their own mess they are likely to be distressed. Is she still happy to see you and is she responsive to you? Is she able to move around enough to eat, drink, toilet, get in and out of her bed and generally make herself comfortable? You'll know when these have reached the stage where there are more bad days than good. As you've said Fern is your heart dog, You will be able to make the right decision for her because you know and love her better than anyone else does. I know what a draining and stressful time this is. Take care of yourself. :D

True but then you haven't seen me at the starting post with Holly - jumping around like an idiot, getting her to bark and generally trying to rev her up. Then I send her on a cast hoping and praying that she won't run out of oomph while she gets slower and slower and eventually walks to the sheep. Once the sheep move she's fine and comes to life.

Why do you think it is important for your dog to tug? My oldest dog was never interested in tugging. I could get him to take a firm hold of a toy and move back a little but no more. I would let go of the toy to let him win, but he would always immediately give it back to me. It didn't stop him from earning 19 agility titles in ANKC and NADAC. My black and tan Kelpie is far too much of a lady to ever tug or engage in any rough behaviour (except with sheep) and she earned three agility titles before we went "sheeping." I used to leave my dogs well back from the starting line and then walk out to give myself as good a start as I could because I'm such a slow runner and my dogs would cross the starting line at top speed. Since then the chiropractor who treats my dogs told me she doesn't agree with people revving up their dogs through tugging as it can cause neck injuries.

Thank you for sharing Molly's story with us. I'm glad you were able to say goodbye in the way you planned and she was able to go so peacefully. I'll be lighting a candle for her tonight.

I'm so sorry to hear this. It sounds as if you and Molly have had a wonderful life together and you will have lots of memories to treasure. I hope you can spend some more time with her and I'm sure you'll know when it's time to let her go. We can only try to give our dogs the best life we can, and when this is no longer possible we have to let them go as easily and painlessly as we can. You'll do the best for Molly as you have always done. I'll be thinking of you over the next few days.

Have you tried this website? http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#ibd

I can only add my best wishes and healing thoughts for you and Molly. I have had two dogs diagnosed with cancer and know well the horrible dread caused by hearing a vet say this word. One of my dogs was pts 10 months after diagnosis while the other is still going strong three and a half years later. Try to stay positive, there may well be a non cancer related cause for her symptoms. Make the most of the time you have now. If it does turn out to be cancer there are options. While there is no cure for cancer as yet, we can do a lot to help our dogs' healthy cells stay that way and to give them quality of life. I'll be thinking of you and hoping for good test results.

My Mini Foxie had bladder cancer for the last ten months of her life and became increasingly incontinent. I kept her inside through all this. She slept a small plastic crate (cat size) which was inside a larger wire crate (over a metre long, not sure about the width. I used puppy training pads but found that lots of newspapers and a towel were more practical and stayed in place better if she scratched around trying to make a bed. The plastic lined adhesive pads tended to scrunch up in a ball and stick to themselves and weren't a lot of use. I always had one towel one her bed, one soaking in disinfectant and one drying on the line. It helped that she was a very small dog and any accidents on the floor could easily be cleaned up. I didn't let her walk about on the carpet. I tried "bitches britches" - not sure of their correct name , they were on loan from a friend, but found they weren't absorbent enough and she piddled right through them. She wasn't happy wearing them and tried hard to get them off. She was an older dog and content to stay in one place. She would run about outside and then come in and sleep in her crate. I suppose a lot depends on the age and activity level of your rescue dog. Maybe her condition will improve with time. Good luck with her. She has certainly been through a lot. I hope she can find an understanding home.

Hi Midnight and congratulations on rescuing Faith. I hope you have a lot of fun together. I read your message last night and gave myself some time to think about a reply. Here goes ... I find Kelpies easy to train once you get past the highly distracted adolescent stage and once you convince them that you are part of the team and good things happen when they work with you. With a rescue it's hard to know where your dog has been or what has happened to her, but if she is like a lot of young Kelpie crosses that end up in shelters it could be that she was played with as a small puppy but once she began to outgrow the cute stage and started jumping on people, mouthing etc. she was banished to a back yard until the level of barking, diggging etc. got too much for the owners and neighbours so she was dumped in a shelter. If she was living in solitary confinement with no training or stimulation, she will have awful leash manners and be easily distracted by other dogs. Kelpies were bred for to do a job with little or no commands. The kind of dog that was bred to have the initiative to find 1000 sheep in a bush paddock, bring them together and move them through a series of paddocks and then into yards while the owner drives from gate to gate in a ute or on a motor bike, isn't going to be fascinated by walking at heel watching a handler. She will be stimulated by movement and will find it hard to pay attention to you when walking on leash. Do you have a safe place to exercise her off leash? Walking at heel may well be the hardest thing to teach her and it would be good if she could get the zoomies out of the way before you try to teach her anything. I've seen a number of Kelpies coming to obedience clubs but sadly many dropped out as block heeling was so boring for them and they hated being constantly corrected and ended up by shutting down. The handlers that were able to make a game of heeling and kept their dogs interested had great success and went on to earn titles. I haven't seen many Kelpies doing well at novice level but those that made it to UD were very successful. Agility and tracking (and of course herding) are great activities for Kelpies. They love tricks and any active games. They don't need huge amounts of exercise but need lots of things to think about and just thrive on being with you. You don't need to be harsh but you will need to be super consistent. Kelpies are quite sensitive and love to know that they are doing a good job. You will have to find out what your dogs finds rewarding - toys, food or just you doing a "happy dance." My dogs respond to all three at different times and situations. I would never attempt to give them food when doing agility or working stock but when teaching sits, stays etc. I've found clicker training really works well. Just shut the door and ignore all the other dogs who are trying to convince you they should be given treats when they hear a clicker. They'll soon understand the routine. You will need to help Faith learn self control and to understand that here are times when she needs to sit quietly and not act like a hooligan. Crates are a great invention, but you can also tie her to a (solid) piece of furniture while you'r sitting at a computer or reading. She will learn that being with you doesn't always have to mean fun and games. I found this article by Turid Rugas really helpful in understanding young dogs. I'm not sure where it originally came from but here are some of her ideas. "Once the puppy period passes at around 4 to 4.5 months of age, the adolescence begins. It consists of several stages and lasts up to around two years of age. Sometimes it takes more time, other time less. Young dogs are like young humans: • They like action and speed. • They get easily bored when nothing is happening. • They have no self-control at all. • They cannot control themselves when something exciting happens. Like kids who see a firetruck or dogs who smell a rabbit. • Their ability to concentrate over any longer period of time is poor. While kids ´forget´ to come right home after school, the dog forgets what you asked him to do ten seconds earlier. They prefer to be with others the same age or with similar interests. • They will rather play that do other things. • They find cramming boring and it takes the fun out of learning. Young dogs need training, but in short and fun sessions so that they are able to stay focused and not get tired of it. Their needs of activities can be met with short and easy training sessions on an simple agility course, recall training, taking walks in the woods, being with other dogs and play off leash, and so on. • They gradually need to learn self-control, but only little at a time. That´s why we do things stepwise, like expecting the dog to remain gradually longer in exercises like ´sit-stay´ - 2 seconds, 5 seconds, 10 seconds, etc. • Be considerate when the dog is loosing his concentration - allow the dog to get a break in order to get his focus back, help him to continue the training. • Let the adolescent dog meet with other dogs - Important! • Avoid long training sessions, repeating the same exercise over and over, punishment, and so on, so that the dog doesn´t get tired and fed up with training. • Socialization - Social training with people and animals is important. Teach the dog to deal with all kinds of situations in all kinds of environments. • Practice fun activities like tricks, retrieving, searching, tracking, etc." This wasn't written with Kelpies in mind but it certainly sounds like the young Kelpies that I have known. It probably shows that young dogs of all breeds have similar needs. Good luck with Faith. I hope you'll tell us more about her and how you get on with your training.

Rachel that is beautiful. Thank you. Now how do I get it from your message to my signature? Edited to add Ignore that last comment. I worked it out. I'm not sure exactly what I did but I saved the photo to my computer, then to photobucket, then after several tries managed to copy and paste the IMG code. And it worked. Big thanks to you Rachel.

I rarely bath my dogs once they are past the puppy stage. Then I use it more as a training exercise. If the dogs are healthy and don't have any allergies, they don't tend to have coat problems. It probably helps that my Kelpies all have short shiny coats and even if covered in mud from working in the yards, once the mud has dried and they shake themselves, their coats are clean again. The girl in my signature hasn't had a bath in about two years (last time was when she rolled in something unpleasant.) They all come inside and have no doggy smell. I probably do my German Shepherd about once a year - mainly to help shift his undercoat. I don't know enough about long haired breeds to know how often they might need baths.

Hi Dova, I was wondering how you'd got on. I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. No you're not herding tragic just addicted (I'm sure you were warned.) It will be good to have some time to practise and then go back to another school to see how you've developed. Don't worry about what anyone thinks of your chosen breed. While I haven't seen a Koolie/Coolie with as much instinct as working bred Kelpies and BCs, I've seen plenty of homes where because of their (mostly) calmer temperament and less drive they can be very suitable. If you had a large property and had to work thousands of sheep I'd be telling you to get a Kelpie, but if your dog is mainly a pet and herding is your hobby rather than your occupation, Izzi will suit you fine. I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with her. I realized a long time ago that if I want lots of success in sheep dog trialling, I would have to be prepared to buy and sell lots of dogs, but because once a dog has become part of my family I'll never get rid of it, I'm content to work on improving my skills and making my dogs better and enjoying any success that I may achieve.

Vetbed is a wonderful invention. My Mini Foxie had bladder cancer and leaked badly towards the end of her life. I kept her in a crate lined with newspaper and occasionally puppy training pads (although she tended to dig these up and then miss them.) When I discovered vetbed it made life easier and more comfortable for her. I used to have at least one piece on the line, one soaking and one on her bed and managed quite easily. There was no cure in her case and although she was on medication, this wasn't having much effect. Hopefully in your case it will only be temporary but it would make things much easier for you to keep your girl inside with you.

I thought I remembered you mentioning him earlier. I met Ben and Lyn at the Kelpie Championships at Coleraine a couple of years ago and thought they were very nice. At that time they had both Borders and Kelpies and did 3 sheep and yard dog trials. I'm sure you'll have a great time and they'll give you plenty of help.

Have a good time Dova. Don't worry about being the dunce of the class. The only dunces are those who never take their dogs anywhere or try to learn anything new. Who are the instructors? You'll only be sleep deprived after the first night. After that you'll be so tired you'll probably crash. Hope you're warm enough in the car. Usually dogs make lovely hot water bottles ( and they stay warm all night.)

Congratualtions Gamby. You must be so thrilled. Great detective work Ness. That will save Gamby from having to search through all the things she has packed away when moving. Moving can be so stressful. I hope you're enjoying your new home Gamby and have lots of warm clothes. Does this mean you'll be changing clubs?

do you have a larger one of the fourth dog. you can email me the pics if you want and rename the pics to what the dogs name is if possible [email protected] Thanks Rachel. I've sent you an email.

I never mess about with eyes. There is just too much that go wrong and damge can be irreparable. It's too hard to tell if the condition has been caused by an injury or an infection. That's one of the reasons why vets won't give you ointments without seeing the dog. I ring my vet for an appointment at the first sign of an new eye problem.

Great topic. I haven't done agility in years but I used to mix up my jump heights when training - different heights on the same course, some over and some under the height the dog would jump in competition to make the dog jump more carefully. I suppose it's a carry over from when I used to jump horses. It always surprised me that in agility every jump was the same height both in competition and in training classes. I also did some grid work. Have those of you who do NADAC and ANKC seen any difference in the number of bars being knocked with the more flowing NADAC courses? Or are ANKC course becoming more flowing these days? I used to trial in the days when many ANKC judges came from an obedience background and didn't have much agility experience. Many of their courses just weren't dog friendly.

Thank you

Never and I have fed bones daily to a number of dogs for many years now. But I've had to remove the occasional bit of bone stuck over teeth or wedged in the roof of the mouth. Fortunately all my dogs let me put my fingers in their mouths to remove these.

Hi Shellectra. I think your puppy is beautiful. I would love another GSD but now that I'm into Kelpies and can only own a limited number of dogs it's not likely to happen. Pulling is a difficult problem for trainers to overcome in the early stages of their learning. Don't worry it gets so much easier with exoerience. I can remember taking my first puppy to obedience classes and being dragged around the ring with my dog leaning into his choker chain (it was a long time ago when everyone used these in puppy class) making choking noises while the instructor called out "Nice loose leads." What on earth was I meant to do? Walk faster, hold my arm out straight in front of me which loosened the lead for a second until he leant into it again. I didn't have a clue and often jerked on the lead in my frustration. Later when I joined another club I learnt that walking on lead is more about teaching the dog position than about equipment or jerking and pulling. Here's a link to a great article on pulling on lead http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/nopulling.html I really like the line "Your dog pulls because someone, somewhere at some time, took a step when he put tension on the leash. " These days I do my training off lead when teaching my dogs to walk beside me. I'm lucky in that I have my own paddocks - it would be a diffierent story if I had to walk my dogs around suburban streets. I have started teaching pups indoors using a clicker and treats but these days use sheep as a reward for much quicker results. When I'm heading to the paddock to play with sheep I ask my dog to walk beside me. If he steps out in front, I immediately stop and don't take another step until the dog is beside me again. I don't think I've ever waited for more than 30 seconds but of course it can seem like ages. Occasionaly I will use a grass rake to block the dog from going ahead (not hit it) and walk beside a fence so the dog can't go wide around the rake. The dog very soon learns that if he wants to get to the gate to the sheep paddock it's in his best interests to walk beside me. In time this also works inside the paddock with the sheep. Walking on lead in public is easy then, as there are no greater interests for my dogs than sheep. You may not have sheep but I'm sure you can find lots of rewarding places that your dog wants to go, that can be used as a reward. I don't like using a check chain or halti. I think walking on lead is far more about training than equipment to solve problems. If my dog is distracted and lunges, I would much rather strong arm him with a flat collar or martingale to make him stop. It's a bit like when training horses you use a mild snaffle bit on young ones and only when your training is advanced and the horse responding to refined signals, you go into a double bridle or curb bit.

Congratulations Ness and Piper. Are you still celebrating? Dova I hope you'll be telling us about all your news soon.

I have a "Werka" working dog muzzle from Vet-n-pet Direct. I've tried the plastic type but it didn't adjust enough to fit my Kelpies. What breed is Boof? There may be a type of muzzle recommended for his breed. The nylon muzzles are not suitable for walking a dog as he won't be able to pant. Some dogs accept muzzles easily others hate them. With one of my dogs I tried putting it on her for a few seconds then giving her a treat and taking it off (there is room to put a small treat in through the side.) She never got used to it and when I eventually tried to work her with it on, she totally ignored the sheep and kept pawing at it . She managed to get a dew claw caught and ripped it out with lots of blood and trauma to both of us. I haven't put a muzzle on her since. With my other dogs who liked to bite sheep I only used the muzzle around sheep, put it on and went straight to work. They were both so focused on sheep that they didn't take any notice. Now when they see the muzzle they wag their tails knowing they are going to work sheep in the yards. I'm not sure how you would find a distraction as strong as sheep. 1080 is a real problem in country areas. While farmers are only allowed to use it on their own property, the baits are often carried by crows and foxes to nearby areas. My neighbour lost a lovely dog to 1080 poisoning several years ago. This dog used to run along with his owner on her horse. He never went into private property but she remembered him picking up something on the side of the road. He came to her as soon as she called him but must have eaten enough of the poison as she found him dead next morning. Does Boof have a reliable recall? It would be dangerous to let him out of your sight or to let him run in thick bush. Muzzles get caught very easily and he could be trapped or suffer a neck injury if it catches on something when running. If you have wide tracks to walk on and he will stay close to you the muzzle could work and keep him safe.

If anyone has the time I would love a signature with my dogs. I've been trying different things with Photobucket but it isn't working. Must be a klutz. Here are the photos of my dogs. Tia Caleb and Holly Cara is in the very small photo. I don't know why this happened. If you need a larger picture I can send another. Thank you.