4Kelpies

I take my dogs to Kim Lim too. I used to be a bit sceptical about alternative treatments but have seen so much improvement in my own dogs that now I am a firm believer. When Ruff had surgery for cancer much of the bone in his cheek was removed and the canal which drains tears was damaged. His eye wasn't producing any more tears than usual but as it wasn't draining it appeared that his eye was always weepy. Kim worked on this with acupuncture and the problem cleared up. I also believe that acupuncture helped with healing after such radical surgery (caudal maxillectomy.)

bump

Here's hoping there will be another good news story about this one soon when Mickey is found safe and sound. Having a dog go missing is an owner's worst nightmare.

I agree with most of what you said Shortstep (of course I substituted Kelpie for BC.) You wrote ....."As far as shock collars, I have never seen nor heard of a shock collar used on a kelpie or border collie. They are far too soft to tolerate that type of training. I would guess that the shock collar use comes from those doing attack training, police training and those sorts of activities." Unfortunately I have heard of many sheep dog trainers who use shock collars and not in any gentle scientific manner recommended by obedience trainers. I was speaking to several highly successful 3 sheep trainers not long ago and they only ever had their collars turned to the highest shock level. They believed that if they were going to use shock collars the dog really had to feel it. I know of a young dog that was bred and trained by another top level competitor. This dog had a lot of presence and tended to upset his sheep. His new owner found that he would go half way on the cast and then throw himself to the ground whimpering in anticipation of the shock. He is now having fun working sheep in the yards where he has no bad memories and where his presence is an asset. A rule was brought in (last year I think) that in 3 sheep trials no collars were allowed. There was disagreement from a large number of trainers who used to run their dogs in heavy collars with bits of wood attached so the dog would still think it was wearing a shock collar. I don't know of any Kelpie trainers who admit to using shock collars on their dogs but I've heard the talk about several "suspects." Maybe as most yard dogs earn their living on farms and go to trials on weekends as opposed to the more specialised 3 sheep trial dogs who rarely work on farms, their training relies more on instinct and less commands and correction. Most working dogs are valuable and so are well cared for. These dogs may spend much of their lives on chains or in small runs with none of the fancy bedding or toys that pet dogs take for granted (they would probably only destroy these,) but get to do a job they love and are happy. I know of working dogs who are treated as valued partners and have a great life. Unfortunately I know of other working dogs who have a miserable existence, worked hard, fed small amounts of the cheapest food available, housed with little shelter and shot when their health gives out. I doubt that any amount of information about training and care sent out by govt. departments would have any effect on their owners.

I have purebred Working Kelpies who come from generations of dogs bred to work sheep rather than hunt them, but I would never leave my dogs unattended with sheep. Their hunting instincts would take over. In time you will be able to train your puppy to walk quietly through a paddock of sheep in your presence, but you will never train the prey instinct out of him no matter how much you punish him. Remember he is only a baby so trying to call him when he is excited and wanting to chase will only give him practice in ignoring you. Don't waste your money on an e-collar, spend it on safe fences that will keep your dog and sheep apart.

I wore mine (well OK it's my dog's but he doesn't know that as I haven't given it to him yet) around Colac show yesterday and didn't get any weird comments or looks that I noticed. The two Kelpie girls competed in the morning and then spent the rest of the day wearing theirs and resting in the dog trailer. It was hot but we all coped. I'm sure we would have been much hotter without them. I showed them to friends who were most impressed. I'm not sure that I would want a full body suit - maybe a hat or a blanket to go around shoulders.

I have a large backyard (about an acre) and paddocks but my dogs spend most of their time with me. When I used to work and now when I leave the property the dogs are kept in a run 15 metres by 5 metres, probably smaller than your backyard with no problems. I don't know how my dogs would cope in a small suburban yard - I think they would bark at any noise made by neighbours, but I would imagine a dog brought up hearing these noises regularly rather than being in a quiet country environment would be used to them. My dogs have two off lead walks/runs/wrestles in the paddocks each day and the Kelpies work sheep regularly. I don't think they would like walking on lead around city streets, but then they might find the environment more interesting than paddocks. So much depends on how much mental stimulation you can give your dogs. This is so much more important than a large backyard or mindless exercise. I recently heard of a Kelpie who had been owned by an active professional couple who ran and rode bikes kilometres each day with the dog running alongside. When they came home, the dog was kept in the backyard (never the house) and was bored and lonely for twenty-two hours each day. He began barking, digging and destroying the yard and was eventually rehomed with a very large extended Italian family. The dog thought he had gone to heaven. He was often only walked at weekends but was always with people. He would sit by the great grandfather's chair and keep him company. The baby would play with him - not always appropriately or well supervised but the dog greeted clutching hands with lots of licks. He spent time with the grandmother when she worked in her garden. When the children came home from school he would play with them. He was allowed to come inside where he was could lie around with the family. He was much happier in this situation than in the home where he had lots of exercise.

Hi dyzney. My cool collars have arrived. I've had them soaking all ready for a yard trial tomorrow. It is meant to be hot and I think my dogs will appreciate them. I haven't tried them on the dogs yet so I just might borrow the big dog's (he will be staying home) for myself.

Try this website http://www.blinddogs.com/support.htm Good luck with your old girl. i hope she can still enjoy life for some time yet.

Hi dyzney, Thanks for all this information. I've just ordered 3 collars (hope you still have that many left) for my Kelpies who get hot working at trials and one for my old dog Ruff who has been panting over the last few days. As he's nearly 14 years of age I need to do all I can to keep him comfortable.

There are several discussion/support groups for this disease. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/k9Addisons/ http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AddisonDogs_/ People here may be able to tell you more about treatment. Good luck.

Hi Vickie, This condition can be found in Working Kelpies. Unfortunately some top working dogs in the past were carriers and their bloodlines were so popular that they and their descendents were used widely. Now it is very difficult to find a well bred Working Kelpie who doesn't have a carrier in its pedigree. I don't know anything about this in Border Collies but I believe that Borders and Kelpies have common ancestors and many working type Border Collies may have some Kelpie in them, so I suppose it stands to reason that the condition would occur in Borders. Here's a link to the Working Kelpie Council's website giving more information. http://www.wkc.org.au/HistoryAtaxia.html

My dog had a different type of cancer so I can't help you wiht this. I suggest you join http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/CanineC...?yguid=69740366 if you haven't already. You will be able to talk to many people who have had experience with nasal cancers. I know of several dogs with nasal cancers who have gone on to lead quality lives for much longer than the vets ever thought they would. Best wishes and healing thoughts to you and Lucy.

The black and tan girl in my avatar is the biggest poo breath around. She eats any kind of poo - dog, sheep , horse etc. In the mornings she is fed Eagle Pack with either (on alternate days) an egg, a tin of sardines. liver or chicken mince as well as yoghurt or cottage cheese, Joint Guard and a Fish Oil tablet each day. In the evenings she gets meaty bones. I doubt that there is anything missing from her diet. She is walked twice a day through my sheep paddocks and has the chance to eat plenty of sheep poo (unless I am close enough to stop her.) She has a lovely shiny coat, plenty of endurance and energy and is healthy. Maybe she needs a study of her own. :rolleyes: I would love to know what is causing her revolting habit but I suspect she just likes the taste. I agree that looking away is about all I can do.

Well done!

Congratulations. :D What a great effort for your first run. How good will you be when you've had a bit more experience?

Hi dysney. I remember Ruby too. She was a stunning dog. I'm sorry to hear you lost her.

Thank you

This is a discussion forum. I expect to see a wide range of opinions. I've read some messages here where I've thought I'd really like to meet this person and others where I think the poster doesn't know nearly as much as they think they do. But this is going to happen anywhere I go. Probably people have read my messages and thought either of these things as well. If I find a post or a discussion too long winded I tend to skim it or sometime just lose interest and go to another topic. Some arguments I find quite silly but I admit I tend to read them to the end - they're more entertaining than the soapies. Corvus I haven't read all your posts (haven't read all of anyone else's either) and haven't agreed with all of your ideas but I haven't seen any that I found insulting or arrogant. I don't think you need to apologize. It's very hard to express an opinion in writing (even with all the emoticons) without sounding arrogant. In a spoken conversation no one keeps say "I think" or "these are my ideas" without sounding big headed, but when contributing to a forum like this it's inevitable. Wouldn't it be dull here if one person wrote their ideas and all the other posters said "Yes I agree."

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) I have four WKC registered Working Kelpies but have been around Kelpies most of my life (and that's quite a while . ) I have friends and family who own and breed them. I've never owned a show Kelpie. 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? In Australia for working sheep. 3. How common is it in Australia? Very 4. What is the average lifespan? Well into their teens. A lot depends on how hard they have worked and how they have been looked after. A farm dog who has been knocked around by stock or run over (unfortunately too common when working sheep on the roads) and lives outside in a kennel or 44 gallon drum will develop more stiffness/ arthritis etc. than a dog whose body hasn't had as much wear and tear and who has a warm bed indooors. A lot of farm dogs are put down when they can't work any more and are not happy when they can't do anything. Those that are treated like pets (and plenty of old farm dogs are) and are allowed to come inside to sleep by the fire etc. will go on for longer. 5. What is the general temperament/personality? Intelligent, enthusiastic with plenty of energy and initiative. Most of the Kelpies I've known have excellent temperaments and rarely show aggression to people or other dogs. Of course so much depends on bloodlines and how they are handled. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? Not nearly as much as most people think. While they are not a dog to be left alone in a backyard for long periods of time (and I don't believe any breed of dog deserves this) they can get by quite happily without lots of exercise as long as they have plenty of mental stimulation. Most farms in Australia are mixed farms and there will be times such as shearing when dogs have plenty of work and other times when crops are being put in or harvested when the dogs might be lucky to get off their chains for 15 minutes a day for a week or more. Dogs that bark and dig holes etc. won't last long on a farm. Most Kelpies will accept these boring times and just lie around and wait to be let off and have fun again. I know some farmers who will take a dog with them wherever they go - on the back of the ute or at their feet when on the tractor and the dogs don't get much exercise at all but are happy to be with their owners. My dogs are lively outside but are quiet indoors and will just lie around and sleep if I'm on the computer, reading, watching TV etc. As soon as I'm up and moving they are ready to go again. I have to explain that housework has nothing ot do with them and they don't have to follow me around form room to room. ]7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? Yes as long as they are prepared to put in the time and effort to train their dogs and spend a lot of time with them. Unfortunately some first time owners have unrealistic expectations of their dogs and how much of a commitment they are prepared to make and young healthy dogs end up in shelters. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? I've never had a solo Kelpie so I can't answer that one. My Kelpies were often left for 10 hours a day while I was working with no problems. They would have a walk in the morning and be left with a bone each, then would have another walk in the evening and would spend the night inside with me. These days I've retired from work so they often spend the whole day with me. They still sleep most of the day just as they used to do when I was working. 9. How much grooming is required? Little to none. I don't know any farmers who groom. My dogs get the occasional bath - usually if they've rolled in something. I will occasionally brush dead hair out of their coats to stop it from coming out inside the house but rarely do what I would call grooming. I do have to trim their nails regularly. These grow really fast. 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? Probably. Young pups can be lively and boisterous. They usually respond well to training but could trip or knock over small children or elderly people. I know plenty of homes where Kelpies have been kept in the house along with children and elderly grandparents with no problems but it could be a risk. 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? Kelpies are one of the soundest breeds around. Any dog not healthy enough to work hard usually doesn't live long enough to breed. Ataxia (Cerebellar Abiotrophy) although not so common these days has been in the ancestors of many well bred Working Kelpies. This usually (but not always) shows up soon after birth. It is recessive so dogs who are unaffected by the condition could be carriers. Although a lot of research is being done there are no tests as yet to tell if a dog is a carrier. This won't be a problem for pet owners who don't intend to breed . More information can be found at http://www.wkc.org.au/HistoryAtaxia.html 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (e.g. what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) You should probably talk to people who have bought puppies from the breeder in the past and find out how their dogs have turned out. Meet the parents and other relatives of your puppy if possible. Be realistic about your lifestyle and how much time you can give to the dog. Reputable breeders will know if the pups they breed will suit you or not. Not many breeders x ray hips or elbows and if they do there is not set standard for Working Kelpies to compare. My puppy began limping at six months and my vet suggest x raying his shoulders for elbow dysplasia. (It turned out to be a muscle injury and all is fine now.) The x rays were sent away to a specialist vet and the report came back as excellent but they couldn't give me a score as they didn't have a score standard for Working Kelpies.

That's good to hear. I hope you have many more days like that with her.

No stay here. I love hearing about puppies and don't want to go through all the breed threads to find puppy stories. I won't be getting a puppy for some years so have to get my puppy fix hearing about other people's. :D

If you search through the advertisers on the lists you'll find some different kinds of crates. For a Lab you'd probably be better off with the collapsible metal type crates rather than plastic or soft crates. Once you start crating your puppy you'll wonder how you ever managed without one. Your puppy will always have a safe place to rest and any time you can't watch him you can know that he will be safe and can't chew anything. I don't like leaving a dog in a crate all day as seems to be done overseas but they are wonderful for a pup to sleep in at night and times when you are busy. There are lots of links to articles about crate training here. http://www.k9events.com/pups1.html

I agree with using a crate. They are the best ever invention for puppies. I like to have my puppy in a crate next to my bed for the first few weeks. I use a cat collar with a bell so that if the puppy wakes up and becomes restless, the bell wakes me and I can take the puppy outside before any accidents happen. This has made toilet training so much faster and easier. It is very stressful for a puppy to be taken away from its litter mates. In the wild any young pack animal totally alone will die and all your puppy's instincts are telling him to cry out for the rest of the pack to come and find him. If he is close by he can hear you breathing and knows that he is not alone. He will also be warmer in the bedroom than in the laundry. Later when he is more secure you can move the crate to another room or wherever you want him to sleep and when he is older (and has outgrown chewing) can either leave the crate door open or put it away and let him sleep in whatever kind of bed you choose.

Do you know what is causing the condition ? I have a lot of faith in Lew Olsen at B-Naturals. Here are some links which include diets for different conditions. http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/utis/ http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/categ...bladder-stones/ http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/category/kidney/ You would need more details and test results from the vet before you started on any alternate treatment.