Nic.B

Sorry, but this snake made me laugh.... He seems to be going straight ahead with his body when released, to move away, though has his head turned as if to say "Im keepin an eye on you" I know snakes have poor vision, it is just my wicked sense of humour. No sightings of snakes recently here that goodness. Touch wood & fingers crossed.

In regard to the article I have posted from the G2Z summit this year. I can relate to the frustration re desexing/surrender/lost figures as compared to the stats of 90% owned cats desexed. It is very common for dog and cats owners to claim the dog or cat they are bringing into a pound is lost rather than their own cat or dog. This is probably due to shame upon surrender and also avioding the surrender fee. Staff in pounds and shelters witness this on a daily basis, though as their prime concern is the welfare of the animal they will always take them into care to avoid pets being further neglected, dumped or let loose somewhere.

I believe that if those people dumping pets in pounds to go on holiday had the opportunity of taking those pets on holiday with them (I guess I mean dogs mainly) then maybe the problem might be reduced a bit - the same with being able to rent with dogs/cats. Australia is generally a really unfriendly place for owning dogs, perhaps if we were allowed to let our pets participate more in our lives publically (sp? It doesn't look right!) the dumpage rates might not be quite so high? I read an article a few weeks ago in the Sydney Morning Herald - promoted by the awarding of a dog with the VC (or doggy equivalent) for braveness in the line of duty - but somewhere in the article she quoted figures which showed that here in Australia we PTS around 250,000 cats and dogs each year in pounds/shelters. In England however the figure is 25,000. How does that compute, given the huge difference in human and animal numbers between the two countries? Could it be that there in England a) they don't sell pets in pet shops and b) dogs are allowed in all sorts of public places...? Just putting it out there - I really have no answer to your questions Leema! Some people dump animals to go on holidays but around this time of year people who are in financial hardship suffer more and feel they have no option too . A neighbour used to look after animals for people once now its boarding kennels and pet sitters etc - perhaps if we could encourage people to join a buddy system where they looked after each other's animals when each went away that would stop some who dump them to go on holidays? This system worked really well just after the bushfires where people were too frightened to leave their animals at home while they went to work so we had others who didnt live in a high risk area looking after them while they were away from home. Those peope were repaid by the peopel they had helped by various means including looking out for their animals when they went away. It works. Pacers helps to set these systems up. Great idea. A bit like a babysitting club for families! We mind children in our home for local families and if we need a babysitter the favour is returned with no cost to either family other than a house full of kids, a few grey hairs and some fun!

I agree 100% Steve that offering help and support prior to surrender is desperatley needed and makes a huge difference for some owners and their pets. Thank god for organisations like Pacers, I have no doubt you witness some incredible success stories on a daily basis. It works, I have been helping a local family with their dog this week. They are good people and have been trying to find a great home for their sons dog for over two months (son has left the family home). The elderly couple are moving into a small ret villa. The dog is a good dog, fully vetworked and adored though they had no idea where to start and need some support and guidence.

Oh poop! I lost my long post. Wont go through it again other than to say I have found this doc from the G2Z summit in QLD this year re cats. It does refer to a 90% desex figure, though also discuses reasons why those stats could be off. Hope it works for you, I am not good with computers! Alberthsen Corinne and Rand Jacqui What Can 191 000 Cats Te.docx

Perhaps the undesexed animals entering your facility are the ones that are in undesirable or irresponsible homes to begin with. I would suggest that the 70-something-% who do desex their pets are also the kind that keep their pets safe and secure, and do not surrender their animals at a 'drop of the hat'. Exactly. Responsible owners that desex their pets are less likely to dump them at a shelter or in the street to become strays. It is the "don't give a damn" types that get a cheap puppy, don't desex or train it and get rid of it when it becomes a nuisance. Then they go out and get another cute puppy and so the cycle continues. You have to work in a shelter accepting surrenders to believe the attitude of these people. Puppys and kittens are easy to get and just as easy to dump when the novelty runs out. These people are the number one reason so many animals need to be pts in shelters. they tend to put no thought into the type of dog or cat and pick somehting that is unlikley to appeal to to many others when they get sick of it. All puppies and kittens are cute but a lot are not so attractive when they grow up. Then there are the impulse pet shop or online buys by people who realise they didn't really want to have look after an animal. When I worked in a shelter about a quarter of the surrenders were sad cases were the owners really could not find suitable housing that allowed pets or the pets had belonged to elderly people and no one was able to take them when the owner passed away or went into car. These are the genuine cases where more needs to be done to help and most of these animals were already desexed. The other three quarters of the surrenders were from owners that simply didn't care what happened to the animals so long as it was no longer their problem. I agree the majority of surrenders are by people who simply dont care. These pets mean nothing to their owners. We have had some beautiful desexed, fully vetworked and well trained dogs surrendered though these are a minority. Simply mind blowing, I will never be able to understand it as long as I live...

Perhaps the undesexed animals entering your facility are the ones that are in undesirable or irresponsible homes to begin with. I would suggest that the 70-something-% who do desex their pets are also the kind that keep their pets safe and secure, and do not surrender their animals at a 'drop of the hat'. I agree that this is an aspect for sure and you have made a good point. However, even if you look at the small number of dogs and cats entering this particular pound from one council area (who come from a very high socio economic area and pets are often reunited with their owners) the great majority of dogs and cats remain entire. 90% of owned cats desexed is a huge number along with 70% of dogs. Do you mind me asking where those figures come from and what area? I am really interested. Great topic by the way

Children (and I have three) should not even come into the issues faced by dog owners in terms of rentals, holiday accomodation etc. Where did kids fall into this? How are kids also related to the number of dogs and cats being pts in pounds/shelters? ETA aside from training related or settling issues between a new baby and a family pet/s. This is most often not the dogs fault as training/or working toward change has not even taken place prior to surrendering a dog.

Can't be much worse than the generations that came before them- letting dogs "experience" having at least one litter, dogs (and cats) being allowed to roam because "it's what they do" and so on and so forth. Awareness of rescue is only on the increase and I can tell you from personal experience, not only is it becoming generally unacceptable to buy puppies from petshops or crossbreeders but there's also plenty of gen Y people actively involved in rescue (I'm one of them). Younger generations have access to the sorts of information and services never available before so I don't think it's really fair to tar us all with the Paris Hilton brush- there's irresponsible people in every generation. I agree. In my experience the majority of volunteers in shelters and pounds are young adults. They could be out running the streets or shopping with friends though these kids volunteer week in and week out on a saturday or sunday at the local shelter. Parents go out of their way to drop the kids off and pick them up, they are great kids who really make a difference and love animals. I believe the younger generation will be the ones who bring about real change.

Yes, so very true Aussie3. Different areas or socio economic groups for those working in pounds/shelters and rescue stick out like a sore thumb. I can only share my experiences, though the great majority of impounded healthy rehomeable cats and dogs are entire. Very few are desexed and if they are it is a big bonus. The more vetwork, training and skills a dog has, the better their chances of finding a new home.

The problem of unwanted animals in pounds and shelters is multi-pronged IMO. It is certainly no coincidence that the number of unwanted dogs and cats rises significantly during christmas and the new year, easter, school holidays and long weekends. I do not agree that around 90 % of owned cats are desexed in Aust. The great majority of owned cats in my local shelter are entire, very few are desexed. Feral cats are not sheltered as they can seriously hurt or kill domesticated cats. I do not believe 70% or so of dogs are desexed either. Once again, the majority of dogs in my local shelter are entire. I do believe TNR would be a step in the right direction for feral cats or community cats. There appears to be a huge difference in socio economic areas directly relating to the number of animals impounded and the number of animals reunited with their owners. Unplanned/unwanted litters are an issue, along with those who breed/sell irresponsibly and home poorly. Training is definitely an issue. Many large breed dogs are surrendered between 6 months of age and 18 months, often they have no basic training, though do incredibly well with it when given the chance and are very responsive. Elderly people often break my heart as they go into full time care. Many try to do the right thing to rehome their pet, though the new owners may change their mind or worse, the family lies to the elderly person and surrenders the dog to the pound without them knowing. Rentals is definitely an issue. I would hate to be looking for a decent, pet friendly rental with my bunch. Pounds and shelters are low on resources and have tight budgets in regard to running costs, staffing etc. The staff and volunteers at my shelter often give their own time and money to meet the animal’s needs. Our local council exceeds the minimum standard required which is great, though there is still a long way to go. We rely heavily on donations which pays for flea treatments, wormers, shampoos, medical needs etc which are vital. The work and effort that goes into finding dogs and cats homes or rescue is extraordinary on a daily basis and it never ever ends. You get one bunch out and then you are straight onto the next lot who are falling due. Mass education is needed. Even the simple things like "plan for your pet at the same time you are planning your holiday" I honestly believe there needs to be a public equiry to identify and address the issues.

I have no idea what type of plum tree? It is two trees and the dogs have never touched them before. We have lived here over 10 years. You have probably been very lucky with your dog. It is a great cause for concern for some dog owners though according to our vet and for us now with Bella. I would have never expected this, ever. Bella's poo was terrible for an active healthy girl. At one stage we thought she had two issues going on at the same time. Stroke and a tummy upset. None of it made sense though really as she was hydrated and had no temp, no sign of infection etc. So the two were not connected with stroke or tetanus. She had the signs and symptoms of both stroke and tetanus or being poisoned in some regard though I know that is not possible as they only spend time in the yard supervised. Was not expecting plums though. Drooling, listless, the strangest eyes I have ever seen, muscle spasm and tightness including her jaw. Not eating at all and just 100% off altogether. She just could not move or function at all and it has been scary for us.

I think you mean "amygdalin" this is the glycoside attached to the CN. Enzymes "Beta-glycosidase" cleave the glycoside and the remainder hydrolyses to produce toxic HCN. Your body can detoxify this to an extent but once you have exceeded a certain dose you will start to get effects. Poor Bella must have eaten a lot or chewed the kernels very well! Continuing low level doses can cause permanent paralysis - if you're interested look up konzo. Arsenic is a heavy metal and Im pretty sure it is not in kernels or seeds. ETA Having read through the rest of the thread I should add that plant HCN is rarely released spontaneously. It is harmful to all cells including plant cells hence it is stored in a harmless form bonded to a suger moiety. Only when in the presence of the enzyme does it get released and become harmful. Usually the glycoside is stored in the vacuole and the enzyme outside the cell - breaking the cells (through chewing) brings the two together and disaster strikes the offending chewer. Thank you Will look it up. It makes sense to me that another dose of the same (even on a smaller level and different types of things) will upset her system more than this time. Bella did eat a lot of plums. I saw that in her droppings. She has never done this in 10 years? Do you think she may have some sort of deficiency which has caused her to eat so many plums? If so, where do we need to head from here?

I did think about bird netting the two trees and tying the bottom up with some twine but decided just to strip it. Birds also get the fruit and drop it about & I dont want to risk it. I will speak with the vet again later today (am driving him nuts! gee he must be glad Bella is better and home ) I wonder now if she will be more prone/sensitive to this sort of poisoning again? Ie it will take a smaller amount of something to poison her... Raz they are buggers at times! I have always said to my husband, the dogs take a lot of looking after to make sure they are safe! Now I have a plum, compost heap and snake phobia lol.

Sorry, I missed this. Here is what is written in the link; "Grapes or Raisins Although the minimum lethal dosage is not known, grapes and raisins can be toxic to dogs when ingested in large quantities. The symptoms are gastrointestinal signs including vomiting and diarrhea, and then signs of kidney failure with an onset of severe kidney signs starting about 24 hours after ingestion. The amount of grapes eaten varied between 9 oz. and 2 lbs., which worked out to be between 0.41 and 1.1 oz/kg of body weight. It has been reported that two dogs died directly from the toxicity, three were euthanized due to poor response to treatment and five dogs lived." Perhaps apple is a better option (without the seeds) as it is sweet, my dogs love peices of apple and carrot.

Truly beautiful pics of Hero and Takoda, very very special I have no doubt that Heros owner Justin and your dear Gyps are both with you in every way and watching over you. xx

Thanks guys for your thoughts, Bella is doing well now considering and is home with us. We have to keep her quiet for at least a week, so she is busy looking out the timber doors watching the horses from inside. One minute she is at the front of the house watching them, the next at the back of the house. Shaz, I had no idea so many things could pose a problem! Two of our fosters pull mandarines off the tree, though they dont eat them. We have just cut that back as well. We also have lemons and limes. I have done a search and come up with this from DOL, might be handy for a few of us. http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/189010-foods-that-are-poisonous-for-dogs/ ETA

Oh dear, our vege garden is fenced off thank god! I am just so glad she is ok Raz I adore this girl.

I am not 100% sure though think it is only the seeds that are dangerous. Will find out more info later today.

Yes Kirislin she ate the seeds as well, I have no idea why after 10 years? We found lots and lots of seeds in her droppings before she had symptoms. The plums are very sweet and juicy, perhaps that is why she ate them... She is almost back to her old self, but is was a stessful weekend to say the least.

I just wanted to share our Kelpie Bella's story with you all, who over the weekend was poisioned by eating plums on the ground under our fruit tree. Bella became very listless and we rushed her to our vet. By the time we arrived Bella was very unstable on her feet was disorientated and clearly very unwell. She then suffered muscle spasms and her jaw was very tight. All her bloods came back ok as with stool samples (very runny poo and a weird colour green and what we thought was dark red blood) The red colour must have been from the plums. She had no temp and wasnt dehyrated. At first it was thought she had suffered a mild stroke or perhaps it was even tetnus. We have since found out it is cyanide poisoning. Thank god Bella is much better now, after a weekend of vet trips, phone calls, intensive care, many tears and worry. I have no idea why she ate the plums? she has never eaten them before. And feel terrible. Today I will be spending the day pulling all the fruit off the trees. It's just not worth the risk. I honestly had no idea that plums were toxic for dogs and that the seed can cause cyanide poisioning and wanted to share with other dog owners. Bella is 10 years old now, we simply adore her, thank god she is looking and feeling much better.

Oh what a shame I missed you Dogmad. I went to the sat night show as well. I agree he was entertaining, I think it is geared for your average dog owner though...I found myself wanting to see more complex behaviours. I think it is great to have someone out there in the public face for dogs. I too loved the pine cone dog, he was simply gorgeous and so funny with his antics. He reminded me of Bella our Kelpie with the horses.

I have a little foster pup with me. She was only five weeks when she arrived, very heavy worm burden and very malnourished. I started her on Canidae salmon and she is doing brilliantly. Lovely soft shinny coat, her growth and development is perfect, she really looks fantsitic

Interesting Didnt vote though. I pick up a couple of times a week in the house yard (2 acres) each day close to the house though, this is more often with foster dogs/puppies. Traditionally fosters/ rescues will not leave my side and poo is easily picked up on the spot. Is there not a difference with when or how often we pick up dog poo due to different circumstances? What sized yard we have? How many dogs we have? How they are housed (Kennels and supervision)or other. Commitments etc? I dont think you can compare one from the other. Some of us are on properties, some in town houses, some in a suburban yard. Some people have 1 dog others like me have multiple dogs on a property who live as part of our lives and our family.

Elly is beautiful Thank you Dogmad and K9 Angel for helping Elly, fingers crossed Elly has a lovely new forever home before Christmas