Nic.B

We have going through problems with our neighbours, so I can certainly relate to the frustration Dju. I would report the hitting, the poor little pup, I couldn’t sleep knowing that was going on. It may be a simple as the RSPCA offering them some guidance with training and correcting him appropriately when needed. I think you have to actually witness them hitting the puppy. I wouldn’t speak with the owners. Either way, I would be doing everything I could my end to address this now, not wait until it escalates. If this continues and when this boy hits maturity it could very well end up being a nightmare . I really feel for the little Jack and the owners too. Make sure Hugo is inside the house if you or your Mum are out. Even if it is just for five minutes, or take him with you if you can. If you are worried about baiting, do a yard check before he goes outside (make sure your lawns are short). I would stay and supervise him outside, do some training, exercise, throw the ball etc. If he even thinks about going near that fence recall him and reward. I would probably be inclined to extend the fence and hot wire the top section. You will have to check with your council though, and if allowable, you will need to advise people the fence is live with special plastic signs. At the end of the day, people may not value their dogs as we do. My neighbours are happy to have their dogs running lose all day long (they are lucky they are friendly natured dogs) We had no other choice than to go through council. In our case, I agree with the advice we were given from the police, council and DOLers do not give them an inch. Report everything and hit them where it hurts, in the pocket. We have spent a small fortune since hotwiring the entire boundary fence, planting 50 meters of screening plants, and putting up screening blinds on our deck for privacy, aggisting the horses out etc. Even though it is really unfair, it all had to be done for safety. I have always supervised the dogs while outside, though now I am fastidious. When our new front fence goes up we will have to make sure its included in insurance, if not, pay for it to be because there is a good chance the flips will do something again going by what we have experienced already. Good Luck, I really do hope you reach a positive result.

This is true. They get you to pay for transport up front, will do the same for chipping and vaccination fee. The money for chipping and vac's x god knows how many people can add up to a lot. Saying the parents can be viewed is used to lull people into a false sense of security. They are long gone after the money goes into their account. Having said that, if they are legit the puppies need out of there.

Awwwe I remember a Dane and a Chi picked up as lost and impounded at Renbury, years ago. The Chi slept on the Dane's back :laugh: that was used as their impound pic.

Giddy up! Awesome thread Shmoo :) Desesxing! Vet treatment when needed, even if this means a consult over the phone for treatable conditions such as dry eye. Pain relief for dogs who are injured/very sick and waiting to be pts. As Dogmad has said, a Vet surgery on site would be unreal! Access to qualified and recommended behaviourists to assess dogs who’s owners are dishonest with the reason for surrender which eliminates the dogs chances of adoption/rescue. Also for dogs who may have shut down in the pound, display any behaviours which are difficult to assess/work with. There may be behaviourists and trainers who are happy to donate some time every now and then. Heating for dogs in winter in cold areas. Pre surrender interviews and advice on working with behavioural issues which lead to surrender, new baby arriving, having to move, going on holidays, can’t afford to keep the dog etc etc etc. Strong, experienced and devoted volunteer group who are supported and appreciated by staff. Experienced temp testers who staff/rescues and the public can rely upon to give an honest, individual assessment identifying any or all issues in the pound environment. As others have said enrichment programs, exercise and training programs. While the dog is impounded we should see an improvement in this area. I would LOVE to gather info on "where did you originally get your dog"? when they are being surrendered to identify which sources of supply are of most concern in the area. Education to address this. A lot more marketing and promotion of rescued pets in the community. Don’t get me started on a rehoming centre! separate from or alongside the impounding facility.

I would also suggest a reputable rescue group under the circumstances. Just wanted to add that not coming when called is not unusual in a shelter environment IME We dont know the dogs name and she may not have formed a bond with anyone at the shelter. High value food rewards are often great to grab their attention or as you have already said perhaps a toy. Being distracted, particularly in the first few minuites is also common as they often check out the environment where multiple dogs have already been taken. Pound/shelter environments are often stressful for dogs. Working breeds can be more sensative to movement, sights and sounds in a shelter environment. Knowing how she interacts with other dogs is crucial, esspecially as this ladies other dog is a senior, there are also disease risks associated. The issues identified may be just as they are though. ETA something else to take into consideration is how long she has been at the shelter. Dogs are often highly stressed during the first two or three days. Depending on what positive interaction she has had inside or out of her pen also has an impact. Dogs who have had time to unravel, with positive interaction most often develop confidence and feel more settled.

Oh how did I miss this thread? Dusty and Phoenix are simply divine and look incredible! Indigirl, Dogmad and Ella I am so grateful that these dear boys are in your care. You certainly are three incredible women To see the boys so happy, nurtured, healthy and loved fills me with such happiness. Congratulations!

I am so very sorry... Run free little one

I agree with what others have said. I would much prefer to offer assistance with food, flea treatments, wormers etc rather than to call rangers to remove dogs from people who are homeless. I have seen so many well cared for dogs owned by people who are homeless. As others have said the bond appears to be at a soul level. Offering their friend food before themselves, ensuring they are safe and well cared for. Compare that to the hundreds of people who are far better off, who get up on a sunday morning with the kids and surrender their pet between 7-9am. Despite being told there is a real possibility that their dog may be pts they all happily wave "bye Buddy" as the poor soul bum plants and looks back at the owners while being taken through the door.

Oh, little Cookie is most certainly a fighter. I am not at all experienced with cats, though when my children were tiny they at times developed a nappy rash. Urine aggravated it enormously even though they were changed immediately. A family friend is a midwife with over 30 years’ experience and she suggested putting bicarb in a little shaker and cornflour in the other. Once they were clean and dry I sprinkled a little bit of the bicarb and cornflour on their bottoms. I was amazed how quickly it cleared up! I would be inclined to give her a little brazilian around those areas, it may help as all traces of urine etc can be easily cleaned away and dried immediately. Puppy pads underneath her would also help draw away any urine. I agree with a second opinion if you have any doubts, at least that way you won’t ever be wondering “what if”. There is most certainly no doubt Cookie is looking much better, seeing her feeling the love and compassion she needs and deserves is beautiful. ETA The bicarb neutralised the acid in the urine, forget what the cornflour did! perhaps just sooth the skin.

Fabulous news for Sydney! I can’t wait! I cannot recommend Underdogs seminars highly enough, what I have learnt from Tamara and Stuart is instrumental for the dogs I have worked with at our shelter, fosters and for my own bunch. If you need a hand with venues etc Cosmolo just let me know :)

I dont think we can stop PR's Julie, though I do believe that council need to made aware of the issues. There are particular 'rescues' who HP will not work with. The pics and notes on DOL are designed for experienced rescuers as a guide only. The dogs then go into care and are assesed, vetted rehomed responsibly. Only on Saturday I was asked to introduce a small breed dog to two families with young children. I had not previously met the dog though realised very quickly that he was unsuitable as he had rear end issues. I made that clear to the families, they were very grateful, and I then informed the staff. I have a good working relationship with council and believe that they will be very concerned with a number of issues involving PR's. Sorry...OT but what are "rear end issues" - just curious He didnt like being touched or handled around his rear end. It could be medical or behavioural, either way, not suitable for young children. Rescue is probably his best option where he can be assesed :)

Seems like an appropriate time to ask as any. Why are the pics and notes being posted in a public place? If there is a finite number of ethical rescue orgs, why not set up a private mailing list for them, for them to distribute to their own staff or carers as they see fit? Wouldn't this make it harder for PR to advertise dogs that are still in the pound if they had no access to this resource? Dodgy rescue is everywhere, even here. Are you refering to DOL or facebook GM? I think a private mailing list is a great idea and something we have considered. The number of dogs they are pulling from HP and BP are huge. They are very much an extreamist group.

I dont think we can stop PR's Julie, though I do believe that council need to made aware of the issues. There are particular 'rescues' who HP will not work with. The pics and notes on DOL are designed for experienced rescuers as a guide only. The dogs then go into care and are assesed, vetted rehomed responsibly. Only on Saturday I was asked to introduce a small breed dog to two families with young children. I had not previously met the dog though realised very quickly that he was unsuitable as he had rear end issues. I made that clear to the families, they were very grateful, and I then informed the staff. I have a good working relationship with council and believe that they will be very concerned with a number of issues involving PR's. O.K. so how are they getting them out then? Are you saying PR rather than someone else is actually getting them out ?That HP is seeing them as a rescue or do they usually release dogs to private people as well without temp testing and without screening? I thought they were just putting people in touch with pounds - or are you saying they are actually having dogs released to them with council assuming they are doing the work that is required to temp test and screen homes? I might email you Julie if thats ok :)

I dont think we can stop PR's Julie, though I do believe that council need to made aware of the issues. There are particular 'rescues' who HP will not work with. The pics and notes on DOL are designed for experienced rescuers as a guide only. The dogs then go into care and are assesed, vetted rehomed responsibly. Only on Saturday I was asked to introduce a small breed dog to two families with young children. I had not previously met the dog though realised very quickly that he was unsuitable as he had rear end issues. I made that clear to the families, they were very grateful, and I then informed the staff. I have a good working relationship with council and believe that they will be very concerned with a number of issues involving PR's.

Ok, I have well and truly had enough after a number of hard working volunteers have coped an avalanche of abuse from PR today. I will be speaking with council tomorrow, this is out of hand, council need to be made aware of exactly who they are dealing with here. I believe under the circumstances, given that PR have made it clear that if there are any issues with a dog they become involved with/rehome/rescue or god knows what else, responsibility will fall back upon councils who release the dog. Councils are at great risk of being sued and they need to be made aware of this. There have been endless issues for rescues, volunteers, foster carrers, families etc. If you are comfortable, please feel free to email me [email protected] with your experiences and concerns. I will ensure any information will remain strictly confidential. Facts and first hand experiences are crucial. Thanks in advance, Nic

I have flown a couple of times from Sydney to Melbourne with rescues going to their new homes. I organised the dogs when booking my tickets, as they were smallish breeds it was only an extra $40 as I have an airline approved crate. It has been worth buying the airline approved crate, they were well priced. The dogs were checked in the main terminal (special baggage area) and they were picked up the other end in the special baggage area. The dogs were fine, I didn’t fuss over them (hard not to do) though made sure they were comfy. My vet is against sedating, it can be very dangerous for dogs on flights. Remember to take a small pair of scissors with you in your main baggage (that goes in the cargo hold) so that you can cut the cable ties they use to secure the crate gate (if you decide to buy your own crate).

What concerns me is that (as I understand) this reflects the Mayor's 'personal opinion' on entire animals. Obviously he is not looking at this objectively and it is part of the position he holds as Mayor to do so. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong, though I believe 75% of animals impounded at Blacktown Pound come from the Blacktown Shire. Clearly there is a major issue in this area and they need to implement serious change. The argument used by councillors, that desexing from a pound or shelter does not reduce the number of animals coming into a shelter is flawed. If you take Vic, who desex all animals leaving shelters you will see there is not a reduction in numbers of animals entering pounds and shelters for obvious reason. Not one other avenue of breeding at point of sale are required to desex in Vic. Byb's, puppy farmers, pet shops, internet sales, unwanted/unplanned litters etc, etc the list goes on. Of course you will not see a reduction in numbers entering shelters when only one avenue is desexing. Pounds and shelters can however, be part of the solution, and not part of the problem. Pounds and shelters must be part of the solution, most councils promote responsible dog ownership which includes micro chipping, registering and desexing companion animals, yet some continue to send out entire dogs and cats into the community!

Thank you all so much :) all fantastic suggestions and great products. I use malaseb and aloveen at home, I have also found Fidos great as it seems to hit the fleas hard and fast and smells nice. Hoss Gloss is a beauty. I find maleseb is fantastic for the dogs feet at the pound, I put it on neat and rinse off after bathing. The malaseb spray is a great idea, we can use that easily 10 mins before their bath. We have a hydropath, the heating element needs fixing, though we fill it by hand with warm water. We have two vet nurses on staff and visit/consult with a vet if other meds are needed, Anti-biotic for KC and eye infections are probably the most common, abscesses for cats at times who need antibiotics, scourban on occasion. Capstar would be ideal to give the dogs when they come in and are wormed and vaccinated, which spot on do you find most effective? I know frontline is hopeless in NSW. I use comfortis at home, though spot on would probably be best for the pound animals. I was really suprised at the price my local chemist sells comfortis and aloveen. Comfortis $70 pack (6) for dogs 27.1-54 kg and one litre of aloveen for $40.99. Thanks for the link Clyde, I will have a look at it later tonight, just running out the door.

Hi Guys, I am seeking a group of recommended and effective treatments, shampoos, and conditioners for companion animals at my local shelter. The most common issues are fleas and flea associated allergies, dermatitis, mange, ringworm (not so common) and breed specific skin conditions (Staffy, Shar Pei etc) Ear cleansers, eye cleansers, liquid tears, eye ointments, bandages, dressings, calming pastes etc. Treatments including heartworm prevention cannot be used as dogs are not tested at the shelter. As there is quite a lengthy written process for any new chemicals used at the shelter (20+ pages) required for each item, I am trying to limit shampoos to three or four at the most, and perhaps one conditioner. Treatments must be over the counter, though I suspect creams such as neocort etc are acceptable. I have a favourite list of my own, though would really value other dolers opinions and experiences with products you love and are very effective. I know natural remedies are also great for some conditions, so am open to these as well :) Oh and brushes, clippers, and nail clippers. Thanks in advance :)

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. When you said that "Its unfortunate that most behavioural problems are a direct result of poor human handling, and not a personality defect in the dog, as many would have us believe.", I assumed you meant that the cause of the aggression was all environmental and not genetic or inherent in that particular dog. I don't agree with that as many dogs display behaviour other than aggression when stressed. The genetics of the dog is what will make a dog more prone to aggression or anxiety or timidity, and environment won't necessarily make any difference to the way the dog will cope with that environment. But it can make a difference to whether a dog has to use many coping mechanisms at all. This is exactly the type of activity that rescues selling to the public should not be involved in. People that are serious and responsible about about security will only use sound dogs, usually of known bloodlines. Those that would be attracted to own an anti-social staffy or cattle dog for 'security' might not be the type of person that understands normal dog behaviour or the responsibilities inherent in owning an aggressive dog. I think a rescue would be crazy to get involved in this market unless a qualified behaviourists is assessing the dogs and giving their approval for placement. I don't think an unqualified rescue person would do very well if one of these dogs bit somebody and they were taken to court over it. Or do you get professional advice before you place these dogs in the community? I think that blaming people for a dog's faults is always the easy option. It is much easier to believe that this affectionate animal was treated badly by a bad person, than it is to accept that the dog may be homeless because it is not a safe dog to have around. Because that leads to hard decisions having to be made. And an acknowledgement that effort and care doesn't cure all problems. You must come across some terrible people and some badly bred and badly neglected dogs. Rescue only works with what has already been bred. If you have issues with breeders and how they select breeding stock, maybe it is a discussion for General instead of here. My own thoughts are that there are some fantastic breeders around who are trying to select (their version of ) ideal temperament. And this results in valued dogs that are not so often seen in rescue. This ^ and what others have said. I have never recomended a dog (impounded) for security, though I have for the EDU. These dogs are assessed at the pound and if they meet certain criteria the EDU is contacted and they are assesed at the shelter. These dogs may have some behavioural issues, commonly a high prey drive and very high energy levels, they may have no basic training and be quite a handful for your average handler/owner. Having said that, they do not show aggression, either HA or DA and are quite often paired up with another dog during kenneling periods/training or free time in the padocks. DA or HA is not acceptable for obvious reasons. These dogs work and travel together with other dogs and their handlers. I agree with dogmad, ethical rescuers do not make a profit. If they are lucky to save a few dollars on a rescue who requires minimal work, that money will then be spent on dogs who reqiure greater work, care or training. Shiner no one likes to see a dog pts, though in some cases the most humane and responsible gift you can offer a dog is a dignified death. It is for their welfare and the safety of the general community. I have seen dogs with questionable temps rescued, while another outstanding dog in temp and nature is pts. That is what I call heartbreaking.

There must be someone this group can be reported to and action taken. They claim they are not a rescue though have a clause, they steal photos and notes volunteer temp testers have taken (then delete part of the notes if they are not happy with them) all of which is a clear breech of copyright law, there have been numerous serious incidents where both people, families and dogs have suffered at the hands of this group. They publish false and misleading information, such as "fostering is free" god that gets my goat! advertise DA and HA as "special pooches" Call consistently for donations and do not disclose nor are transparent about exactly where that money goes. They are manipulating people into donating, fostering, adopting and offering no support, guidance, let alone offering any credible assessment of the dog. This is very serious on so many levels. I have said before, and I will say it again, there have been multimillion dollar court cases where a rescue or org who have knowingly rehomed a dog with behavioural issues which harm or injures another person or animal and or have been negligent in the rehoming/fostering/adoption process, have been successfully sued for millions. Kizzyneo I am so sorry for your loss, I can’t imagine how you must be feeling. Please report this group to your local council and the council where this dog was released from. Which pound was this dog released from? This council need to be made aware of how incompetent, negligent and dangerous this group is operating, especially as they have a clause. (Though they are not a rescue group ) Kizzyneo, if these people continue to contact you, manipulate you, or bully you please put it in writing, if they continue to harass you, call the police. I would be seeking compensation. Run free little man, and watch over your Mum, I am so sorry for your loss and such a terrible experience .

I agree shelter pets are often devalued, there are also stigmas attached to shelter pets "if they are in the pound they must have done something wrong' 'or they must have something wrong with them'. Education is vital in this aspect, companion animals are surrenedered or unclaimed for many reasons. Lack of training, socialisation, grooming, or workable behavioural/health issues, impulse buying, not being able to (or prepared) to pay impound fees or fines etc all fall back upon the owners realistically. The great majority of companion animals at my local shelter are all healthy, rehome able pets and make great companions. They respond to training and boundries quickly most often and improve each day most often, many do have some basic training already, some are faultless! At HP the purchase fee for a dog is $36.50, a chip $40, and rego $150 if undersexed. $40 if desexed, the fees vary greatly depending on their chipping and desex status. Seniors are $50, chipped and registered. Puppies under six months are not required to be registered until six months so are $ 76.50. I agree pounds and shelters really need to look at desexing all companion animals prior to leaving the shelter. I agree with Anna, some councils are wary of vetting as they believe the price will rise to buy a dog from the shelter if vet work is included, and this will impact on their current rehome rates. Realistically it would not cost much more to have a fully vetted dog, especially if vets are happy to assist with cheaper rates and the chip fee is reduced. Lifetime rego will automatically be reduced to $40 (NSW) $250/$270 or even $300 is a fair price to pay for a vetted companion animal (cheaper for cats) from a shelter. The ideal setup would be to have a small surgery on the pounds premises, with numerous local vets assisting in the vet work. This is not cheap though. Most people in the community I speak with tell me they get much more bang for their buck buying a dog from other sources (free to good home or BYB'd)where rego and chipping (both vital) is often not achieved, let alone desexing. There is also the argument that desexing from pounds and shelters will not reduce the number of dogs arriving at shelters. This view is flawed as until every source of supply desex (aside from RB;s) we will never see a reduction in the number of dogs entering pounds and shelters. Vic is a classic example of this, pounds and shelters desex everything that is adopted, though byb’s, pet shops, and internet sales, free to good homes etc do not. Until all these avenues desex and chip their dogs, we will never see a reduction of the numbers of dogs in pounds and shelters. We CAN however be part of the solution and not part of the problem.I have witnessed females adopted from the pound, only to be returned with the puppies 6/12 months later. I have witnessed dogs adopted, bred, the owners keep one female puppy, sell the rest and then surrender the mother. It happens despite best efforts. Then we get the pups/adolesants at the classic age of between 6-18 months who have been offered no training or stimulation, they also clearly lack a bond with their owners. ETA Muttrus, I would also sugest contacting Illy at BP. The pup may be under six months (check teeth) so rego will not apply until he is 6 months, desex straight away and your rego will be reduced to $40 for his lifetime. :)

I had no intention of getting involved with this thread, though feel I need to say something. Firstly, there are a number of issues to address. As I understand things; The Facebook site has been copying and pasting notes from the DOL HP thread for some time. I can only speak for myself though do have grave concerns about this group and how they operate, therefor do not want to be associated with them in any way, shape or form. I don’t want my photos and notes being used by this group in any way, shape or form. The temp notes on DOL are designed for experienced rescue groups and are a guide only. We work very hard and do the best we possibly can though these notes are not designed for rehome from the pound for obvious reasons. I know that Pound list, Anna in particular, has repeatedly tried to address the above issues and those attempts have been futile as this group appear to be hell bent on causing trouble. All they need to do is get their own pics and notes! I have never been asked not to temp test or volunteer, in fact the opposite applies as the staff always greatly appreciate any support for the animals. I have always been able to get a pts list and any updates needed. At times I would call the staff four times a day, I also spoke with them at home if urgent. I make sure though that staff have the time and are available, otherwise I call back, or they call me or we email. My reasons for not temp testing at this time are personal in the most part and while this has been stressful for me, it is not the reason I am not temp testing atm. All going well I should be back in a few weeks. The face book site has a lot to answer for IMO. I know they have caused endless trouble. I have been at the receiving end of them and it is not nice. I agree it is not an issue that staff should become involved in, aside from ensuring these dogs are appropriately placed with any group. Personally I would not be involved with the face book site, though that is just my opinion. The HP DOL thread is a valuable tool for staff, rescue and the animals there is no question of that. I have met and spoken with the most fantastic rescue groups, god only knows how many dogs and cats have been saved via the DOL thread. I know the staff cheer when a fantastic group are able to take a needy. Rescue is only one vital element in the cog for pound staff. They deal with dog attacks, people looking for lost animals in tears, feeding, cleaning, medicating, dogs hit by cars, complaints about noise or straying animals and god knows what else. They are often understaffed and often give their own time to help the animals. This is very disappointing for me personally as I know the unbelievable effort that goes into the HP animals. I know how hard the volunteers work in trying to achieve all they can. Justin (Blacktown list) please refrain from getting involved in this issue, clearly there is a conflict of interest. I have a rough idea of your agenda, and would prefer not to get involved in discussion with you. My advice is to focus on the Blacktown dogs and do the best you possibly can for them. Clearly (and you admit the same) you have absolutely no idea re the Hawkesbury dogs and the issues being faced. I have probably missed a bunch of stuff, though that’s all I have for now.

:laugh: re the tea towels, thats too cute. Another of Ferns favourites is jars of peanut butter on the bench or tubs of butter. You only have to forget for a moment and leave the baby gate open and she is happily licking them away in her crate. I do give her empty peanut butter jars to lick out, and peanut butter in her kong, perhaps this is not a good idea? If she wasnt so gorgeous, gentle and goofy I would be going mad :)

Lol re the cat poo (I forgot that one!) Fern also loves barbie dolls and is always scoping out the kids room. She then comes casually sliding back through the house with something in her mouth. Fern is the only one who steals, our other three are fine. She is a big girl though and can reach everything. She has taken the remotes, my husband’s caps are a favourite, loaves of bread from the bread basket, a leg of lamb recently. She takes books, magazines, clothes, hairbrushes, plants you name it. I do think she likes to nest for some reason, her collections are always increasing!