Nic.B

Interesting link . https://pethelpful.com/dogs/A-New-Study-May-Forever-Change-the-Way-We-Train-Our-Dogs there is another link to what has been released further down. I am not in any way spruiking this study, though it is an interesting study/read (for me) and something for each of us to digest no matter if a committed, responsible owner, trainer, behaviourist, vet, those of us working with dogs in any role.

Such great advice from experienced, compassionate, proactive professionals who have endless years of hands on experience, particularly with senior dogs. I personally know Powerlegs and Stelnmes care and commitment for senior dogs, truly amazing stuff, such an important role. Oldies are truly so special, always so very individual in their needs, it requires a holistic approach. We lost our darling old Kelpie Bella at 17 not that long ago. We took it a day at a time, everything we had done with Bella during her life with us (she was one amazing dog!) went out the window toward the end of her senior years :laugh: lets just say there was a lot of flexibility involved each day and god we laughed at times . It was very much a journey, I am so honoured we were able to have shared that experience with Bella . The thought of Bella being knowingly forced into a state of distress during this time is something I can not even begin to contemplate. For the OP, your little man is gorgeous enjoy this time and these experiences together. Find the humour in it all and remember we all get old. I am seriously going to be a major PIA if I get to that stage and have given the kids an idea of what they are in for :D

:laugh: Nice!

^This, even if it means 30 mins of casually doing other things while not acknowledging the dog at all. Do you food reward him upon entry at your house?

Thank God ! Perfect post for the op Simply Grand.

Probably. She likes following me around and has this thing about killing and culling which in these circumstances I disagree with.

Neither did I. Start a new topic then :)

Congratulations Tessic :) Mum and puppies are gorgeous! I would be no good as a registered breeder, whelping and raising a litter is such hard work! plus you invest so much emotionally into the litle dingbats. I honestly look like I stuck my finger in a power point after my first whelp :laugh: Your female sounds like a great Mum, I am so happy you have the support of your breeder and your vet. Good on you!

Tessic I am so glad you contacted your breeder, good on you! There are so many experienced people on DOL they can answer just about anything, otherwise they will advise off to the vet! I was very nervous and a worry wart for my first whelp and asked far too many questions, it all went really well with advice from DOLers. Others can give better advice though if she becomes wrestless and will not settle also take some time to gently (both hands) feel and become familiar with her belly. Once in labour you will feel her belly tighten up and then release, it becomes more intense prior to each birth.

I have had some bitches not go off their food at all. The belly dropping quite a bit is pretty good sign. I have had some also that don't nest right up until the last stage. Has she started to pant a lot and be quite restless? Keep an eye out for contractions, she could be having them, but they are not enough to start labor properly. I had that with one bitch - had complete uterine inertia and needed to have a C-sect. Have you made the whelping box a den? If not, grap a couple of high backed chairs or put a table over it and then drape a sheet over the sides to create a den. Sometimes this will help with nesting and her feeling more secure and not so open. Even if 63 days is today, she still could be a day or two out - depending on when she actually ovulated. Whether it was at the time of the mating, a day before or after. If nothing in two days, then I would talk to your vet. My first rescue whelp (Border Collie) never went off her food either and she didnt nest until 24 hours before whelp.

This is so true, places to go people to see!

This is me well at least until you are all on the same page. Pers idea of short, simple tricks and games is a great way to bond and build confidence. I am a control freak esspecialy with dog to dog interatctions Allowing unknown dogs to reach that level of arousal, and excitement with a toy gives me the willies! Once the incident has occured you are simply in damage control, it's too late. Understanding dogs body language and what it represents is important, great recall, contolled interactions (which is difficult at dog parks) and if things are getting a bit antsy, time out to settle down and think of something else, like you! I agree with Dancinbcs your dog is probably looking to you rather than your Husband. I would guide the pair of them through things. I am sure your Husband has learnt from the experience, so it's probably a good time to begin training :)

Are you able to seperate them 100% if you need to? Yes - we are using one of our spare bedrooms for the 'whelping' room and although both dogs are 'inside' dogs, our boy can spend most of his time outside and sleep in our room at night. BUT I am thinking it might just be better for him to go elsewhere. I think it is going to be much easier for all of you if your male has a holiday from what I have read.

No, rough play is not good for a female about to whelp. IMO the owner can put her energy into much more positive and constuctive things and interactions with her female aside from playing "rough" a week from whelp.

Are you able to seperate them 100% if you need to?

IMO It is not activity levels. Please think about a holiday with the MIL for your male. Gentle, short easy walks if she is open to it and willing. Otherwise leave and supervise her.

doesn't everyone :laugh: I should have said I felt like I stuck my finger in a powerpoint for about three days and then it just went on, and on and on :laugh: Anyway, I remember that first whelp and it was a very difficult time for me from start to finish. Little ding bats are living the life of their dreams and I get pic's of them chilling out on the beach or having puppy chino's in a cafe.

Nic.B you have whelped more litters then me! But yes I see your point about the two dogs got together when they shouldn't have. Whatever makes it easiest for everyone which includes the young bitch. :laugh: I was thrown into it head first and it was very difficult for me I can assure you. I looked like I stuck my finger in a powerpoint after my first whelp. I worried too much mostly and spent lots of time asking questions, which reminds me of the OP.

I am not the OP though I would find having opinions am not comfortable with forced down my throat very difficult. Obviouisly you have culled litters and late aborted and you are familiar with it. The OP has not!

I don't get this either ..she will probably be more relaxed if she knows he's around :) Really Pers? I have to disagree. Despite the fact the OP does not have any experience with whelping so far? It is one thing having the perfect 'setup' and 'experience' as a breeder (endless years of it) it is another expecting someone with no experience (who has asked for help) to have the ability, confidence and knowledge that you all do.

One person suggested culling and another, me, agreed with it. How is that browbeating and hammering? I agree to not abort/desex the bitch now as it is too risky to the bitch but yes I would cull (browbeating and hammering cause I said it again) Why are some so quick to say move the male dog off the premises? I, and others, don't get rid of all other dogs when a bitch whelp's and mine whelps in the loungeroom You have been a registered breeder for how long Rebane? You don't move males away because you are set up for it AND you have great experience. The two dogs got to each other, clearly something has fallen appart! Unless there is some sort of weird thing going on about the OP and the circumstances I am well unaware of what is wrong with suggesting moving the male?

You poor bugger it took me forever to write that post in between my children and dogs and the thread is another two pages long :laugh: Good news re desexing bubs prior to homing :) My vet has desexed my rescue puppies at 8 weeks (very healthy, tubby, robust puppies) and mum (doing just as well as bubs) at the same time. Every mum and litter is different, if desex is not recommended by your vet at eight weeks it simply means having the puppies with you for a bit longer (or as long as it takes) to desex/responsibly rehome. I would not worry about potential homes just yet (you can begin a list perhaps) get your head around what you need to do right now and get organised for that. One step at a time :)

That's how I understood it as well :) Thanks, I can see how it could be read differently though Christina :) I was reffering to the bubs and agree Mum needs some time for things to settle after weaning and bubs have moved into great loving homes. I come from a rescue/welfare background and have only whelped a few litters under DOC where the females have arrived in late whelp. I personally would not ever be able to abort a litter at this late stage unless there were major health or temp issues with the mother or major health issues identified in the unborn puppies. Culling healthy, strong puppies delivered by a healthy, happy mother with no issues is beyond my (own) comprehension. I did see it done once when I was a child, it broke my heart, I will never forget it. I have desexed/aborted prenancy (rescue) early stage and would do so again. It was simply my gut that told me to desex immediately, then there was the logic :laugh: entire female in season running the streets, picked up by rangers loose impounded for manditory time (7 or 14 days). Quarentine and off to my Vet. I was the only one in my year to refuse to disect any living creature in science 29 years ago (which was a huge deal!) I just could not even fathom the idea, it was simply not possible for me to do that. What I am trying to say is that IMO it is really unfair to brow beat and hammer the OP re aborting and culling, esspecially when it is something she is clearly not comfortable in even considering. I get that. It will simply drive the OP away from great support and knowledge from very experienced DOLers. For the OP; Please contact your breeder, accidental matings happen even for great registered breeders. I kid you not I have even had the horror of seeing two dogs tied through the fence during opening hours at an impound facility Think about moving your male to your MIL's. Your girl (despite the fact they get along well even now) will not like him being around. She will want and need to focus on her puppies with no distractions it is also much easier for you. Please read and take what resonates with you and leave the rest behind. Lastly; If you need help or advice re early age desexing, homing etc there are heaps of awesome DOLers who can assist. Just pick one and send a PM Happy to help and support!

Fantastic, simple, practical advice :) Yes I agree contacing your girls breeder is important, I am sure they will understand. It is certainly not uncommon! Desex before homing the puppies without question. Others will have a better opinion on this though is it possible for your male to have a holiday with you MIL once pups arrive? or just prior? Having him around may stress your girl once she delivers. Keeping them seperate is also another thing you will need to manage during an incredibly busy time.

Kwirky one of the most valuable things you need (or will very quickly develop) is a sense of humour! Murphy looks like an angel in your pic :laugh: It always makes me laugh as we all know how naughty puppies can be. There is great tips and advice in this thread, I also agree relax and enjoy Murphy :) Murphy might prefer a messy bed or 'nest' my large breed must have a messy bed, if I fix it up she gives me death rays and fixes it.