Guardienne

Well it soon will not be a problem for you, the large scale breeding facilities will be inspected and any small breeders that are still around. Now if you are buying a puppy from an inspected and approved large scale breeding facility, I am not sure if you as the buyer will be able to visit the mum and pups. Play with them, temperament test the litter and have weekly updates and discussions about the pups as they grow with their breeder like you might have done in the past with a home breeders. Which BTW would have given you ample time to scrutinize how the pups and dogs were managed in the breeders home. But I am sure the staff member on duty that day at the facility will be able to answer any questions you have. You will also know that the large scale breeding facility has passed inspection and is approved to breed and sell puppies. So it seems you will have ample opportunity to get a pup from an inspected source. For the greater good. I'm not all that interested in made up hypotheticals...... I was hoping for an answer to the questions posed

Of course the rally was a good thing. If nothing else it raises public awareness that these places exist, that most of the cute puppies in the pet shops are bred in puppy factories and that they shouldn't but from them.

I certainly don't support Baillieu's pledge. In fact I am very against his proposals. And I don't support making life difficult for ethical breeders. I do have problems however with some people's arguments "why should I let someone into my home" and "who should have the right to tell me what I can and can't do with my dogs"...... If you are breeding and selling "anything" you should be transparent, open to scrutiny and open to inspection. No matter what your business. And as with anything else that is sold, you have to have regulation to protect the animals in your care and to protect the people purchasing from you. Every one of us that sell things do so under legislation. Why are you so special?

And an amazing job they did

where is the problem making it to size? I still dont see links to these laws. If they're going to impact on the breeders so badly why isnt the ANKC doing something about them? There is no problem as long as you find the law, understand the law and then get a box (or what have you) made just the way they want it. Frankly they can shove it, my box (or what have you) has worked just fine for 20 years, I really do not care to meet every law so that I can have the honor of loosing money breeding a litter of puppies and maybe end up makeing the evening news as a criminal dog breeder. Thanks but no thanks!. Look you should be happy, you have driven off another small breeder. Now you can get your puppies from commercial breeders who meet the laws to the letter. I bet they will be great pups too! Read the NSW dog and cat breeding act. However ff I can point out, this is not the law you are wanting in QLD, so it is a non issue. Dogs are living in misery and we want laws to stop this from happening, but you expect us to not fight for change and are upset because someone might tell you what size whelping box you are supposed to use........ please......

Very proud Oakway! As many have said all along if you are an ethical breeder and you aren't doing anything wrong, it shouldn't affect you.

It was a fantastic day. I'd say roughly 2000 people attended (hubby the numbers person) counted 800+ on the steps alone.

For anyone wondering if it's worth attending tomorrow. This is current footage taken this month in Victoria of what is at stake. Don't watch if you have a heart and you don't want to cry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erWL0v_tsKo

No I don't think it's coming across as though you don't support oscars law. I hear what you are saying and I am interested in what was in the codes of practice in the other states that made you wary or scared to support it, even if the definition of what a puppy farm is did include small scale operations? It is good to get this stuff out in the open and debated. It's not smart to just blindly follow anything. But so far I haven't seen anything that has made me concerned for ethical breeders. The codes of practices in NSW and QLD cater for dogs to be housed inside etc. I have seen things that are quite worrying for private rescue but that's a completely different topic. Edited - because I really should proof read before I post to remove gramatical errors :S

In Victoria, it's the local councils. The DPI make the rules, local councils enforce them..... or chose not to inforce them.

I am interested... Exactly what in the mandatory codes of practice would make your dogs suffer more? Well for a start My dogs would suffer more if I had to house them down the back in a shed with whirly birds and concrete floors. But there's nothing about having to do this in the codes of practice you're referring to...... I can't see how either of these codes of practice would make your animals suffer?

I am interested... Exactly what in the mandatory codes of practice would make your dogs suffer more?

If it was to enforce the laws already in place I'd be there too. Yep I'd be all for enforcing what currently exists... But I know that's not the case and supporting such events is just helping to bang the nail in my own breeder coffin. When the RSPCA and the likes can come up with something that is not to my detriment, or anyone who breeds dogs with due care and consideration, then please let me know about it. Re the quote in red above, to put it in context you need the rest of the quote.... It actually says "Now is your chance to be a voice for the dogs living a life of misery in Victoria's puppy factories. Join the RSPCA along with many animal welfare organisations on the steps of Parliament House to advocate for tougher laws and regulations to be put in place. Help us send a strong message to the State's political leaders that factory farming should not be tolerated." Not once anywhere have I seen any intent of changing laws on how dogs are currently kept by breeders or establishments just the intent to change legislation to outlaw large scale/mass production of puppies. But if I'm wrong I'm happy to stand corrected. From Oscars Law "Now is your chance to be a voice for the dogs imprisoned in Victoria's puppy factories. Help send a strong message to the State's political leaders that we will not tolerate the factory farming of our companion animals. Join us on the steps of Parliament House and stand up for all the dogs on puppy factories and support Oscars Law" The only legislation Oscars Law itself talks about changing is Quote: "•Abolish the mass production of dogs. Make factory farming of dogs illegal •Ban the sale of animals from pet shops, online and in print media" Each of these campaigns describe puppy factories as mass producing facilities. People are even saying they don't want regulations changed... From Debra Tranter herself on Prisoners for Profit website: "How is increasing the fine going to help the dogs Joe Helper? $2400 the cost of one litter of puppies-so what! Mr Helper, we do not want more regulations that the local Council ranger simply refuses to enforce or doesn't have time to enforce. We want puppy factories abolished. Stop telling us how our pets can be kept, bred and sold." From what I've read throughout these campaigns "ethical" breeders have been supported and even promoted..... people are being told to go to shelters, rescue or ethical registered breeders to purchase their dogs. I'll be at the rally with my ex puppy farm breeding girl and hope to see as many likeminded people there as possible I want to say this - and please - this is important. The proposals being tendered do not - I repeat - do not specifically target large scale commercial breeders. The definition of a puppy farmer for the purposes of proposed changes is and I quote from the RSPCA roundtable conference. Recommended way forward: 1.1 A puppy farm (also known as a puppy factory or puppy mill) is defined as an intensive dog breeding facility that is operated under inadequate conditions that fail to meet the dogs’ psychological, behavioural, social and/or physiological needs. Puppy farms are usually large-scale commercial operations, but inadequate conditions may also exist in small volume breeding establishments which may or may not be run for profit. OK now I see where you are coming from as far as breeders, not looking after their dogs could also be affected as far as the RSPCA are concerned, but help me out here..... What's the issue if they are are trying to stop anyone that isn't providing adequate conditions? Not sure that I can see this as a negative thing regardless of who isn't providing adequate conditions.

If it was to enforce the laws already in place I'd be there too. Yep I'd be all for enforcing what currently exists... But I know that's not the case and supporting such events is just helping to bang the nail in my own breeder coffin. When the RSPCA and the likes can come up with something that is not to my detriment, or anyone who breeds dogs with due care and consideration, then please let me know about it. Re the quote in red above, to put it in context you need the rest of the quote.... It actually says "Now is your chance to be a voice for the dogs living a life of misery in Victoria's puppy factories. Join the RSPCA along with many animal welfare organisations on the steps of Parliament House to advocate for tougher laws and regulations to be put in place. Help us send a strong message to the State's political leaders that factory farming should not be tolerated." Not once anywhere have I seen any intent of changing laws on how dogs are currently kept by breeders or establishments just the intent to change legislation to outlaw large scale/mass production of puppies. But if I'm wrong I'm happy to stand corrected. From Oscars Law "Now is your chance to be a voice for the dogs imprisoned in Victoria's puppy factories. Help send a strong message to the State's political leaders that we will not tolerate the factory farming of our companion animals. Join us on the steps of Parliament House and stand up for all the dogs on puppy factories and support Oscars Law" The only legislation Oscars Law itself talks about changing is Quote: "•Abolish the mass production of dogs. Make factory farming of dogs illegal •Ban the sale of animals from pet shops, online and in print media" Each of these campaigns describe puppy factories as mass producing facilities. People are even saying they don't want regulations changed... From Debra Tranter herself on Prisoners for Profit website: "How is increasing the fine going to help the dogs Joe Helper? $2400 the cost of one litter of puppies-so what! Mr Helper, we do not want more regulations that the local Council ranger simply refuses to enforce or doesn’t have time to enforce. We want puppy factories abolished. Stop telling us how our pets can be kept, bred and sold." From what I've read throughout these campaigns "ethical" breeders have been supported and even promoted..... people are being told to go to shelters, rescue or ethical registered breeders to purchase their dogs. I'll be at the rally with my ex puppy farm breeding girl and hope to see as many likeminded people there as possible

They certainly are. In Victoria, remember that the majority of the pounds send their dogs to either the RSPCA or the Lost Dogs Home who decide the fate of the dogs. The very interesting thing in the DAMP's I've skimmed through so far is the common theme of increasing the number of animals rehoused and this seems to be a common theme in their action plans. For those interested, this could be a good thing to point out when you are writing to councils in relation to kill rates and the kill rates of the larger super pounds they send their animals to.

Hi Stefie I'm not sure if there is an easier way to find statistics in Victoria. But it is now a requirement by legislation in Victoria that all councils prepare and implement a Domestic Animals Management Plan (DAMP). Each Victorian council has figures in the DAMP for the year which include number of dogs and cats impounded, returned to owners, euthanised etc. This is very useful if you want to look at the statistics from council to council. http://www.mav.asn.au/CA256C2B000B597A/Fra...x?OpenDocument~ The following is a link to a list of all the councils in Victoria. Within each council you would need to search for their DAMP. Hope this is helpful

I'm sure she'll never do that again, silly girl. But then again their are still so many uninformed people out there that think it's fine to give a cooked large roast bone....... it's scary!

Sister went to the vet this morning. They believe it is some sharp bone in her system but aren't too worried at this stage, have just given anibiotics to ward off any infection and recommended only feeding rice and boiled chicken as a buffer and keeping an eye on her.

Thanks. I finally got through to Lort Smith. They said if she is alert, not showing any signs of distress or breathing difficulty, not vomiting or having continual diarrhea and if the gums are a nice dark pink it can wait till first thing in the morning, but to monitor her during the night. I'll pass on the advice about the food to buffer the bone shards.

Also tried to ring Lort Smith but their phones are not working. Can't get through to anyone......GRRR. Yes it was cooked bones. She was telling me last night at dinner that she'd fed her the left overs and was worried when she threw up really sharp shards. I already gave her the whole lecture on never feeding the dog cooked bones and that I'd be more worried about what she hasn't thrown up.... At that stage, there were no real warning signs though as Buddy throws up occasionally....

Yes, bleached everything, including bath, brushes, my floorboards and the concrete she walked in and out on and the stones her "explosion" happened on, at least 4 feet either side of where she stepped on to them and I threw out the towels. She is vaccinated. And is always given booster shots on time yearly, my sister is very good like that. But still you have to be very careful! At the moment I'm more worried about Buddy, I rang the 24hr emergency vet and they were quite, "oh well you can bring her in if you want...." I asked "what about if its a bone shard, is it important that they get her in straight away" and their response was, "not really, we'd still have to wait until tomorrow to do xrays, so it's up to you...." So much for a 24hr emergency hospital if they can't do anything for another 10 hrs.... (edited because I can't spell oops.....)

My sister's ridgy x was here today having a hydrobath. At the end of the session on her way out, she had an awful diarrhea explosion in my front yard ewww. But sister said she had just given her an all wormer today, so put it down to a possible combination of the all wormer and the stress of the hydrobath and dryer (she's not big on bathing). Tonight, my sister says she has a bit watery blood leaking from her bottom. Sister said she fed her leftover roast lamb bone after Christmas and said she was a bit concerned because she vomited up very sharp shards. I said I'd be more worried about the very sharp shards she hasn't vomited up....... Would you be racing the dog to the vet tonight incase it has got something sharp in its bowl or intestines causing the problem, or just monitor and keep and eye on it overnight? Buddy is apparently looking ok and not lethargic.

Blue Ice, I just want to say how great it is that you are doing everything you can to work out Tuk's behavioral problems now. You don't know how many 7 month old pups end up dumped in the pound, some make it out, many don't, because their owners gave up on them too early. It was too hard, too much effort and they just didn't care enough. So a big from me!

We've had success with toilet training rescue dogs that aren't house trained of all ages, but haven't had any really young pups, but I'd think the same principals could work. Firstly we keep a leash attached whenever we are with the dog. Just a short leash that we can quickly reach whenever needed without having to pick up or touch the dog. Then we confine it to a small space in the room we spend most of our time in, to begin with. Even a normal sized lounge room gives lots of room to sniff and wee/poop around. You could try blocking off part of the room to make a small space and inside this space have his bedding, water bowl and a bit of room to move around, bigger than a crate area, but not too much room. Then gradually make the space bigger day by day when there have been no accidents. If we aren't going to be in that room or able to keep a close eye (i.e. cooking dinner, doing the washing etc) we keep the dog attached to us. I tie the leash to myself, either a belt or belt loop, so the dog never gets a chance to be out of my sight but I can do the things I need to. This way I'm always with the dog they don't normally tend to do their business when attached like this and if they do need to I almost always get to see the telltale signs. As per previous replies we take the dog outside whenever there are telltale signs with and "outside" command and give masses of praise when there we get wee or poo in the right spot. I usually use the command "Toilet" while they are doing it followed by an excited "good toilet!" a play and a pat. If we do have an "accident" inside and we see them in the middle of it, they get a firm but not scary "no". I believe they need to know you are not happy with them doing it in your house otherwise how do they know not to keep doing the same thing if you don't tell them. They also should not be scared so it's never a yell. (Some people don't believe in the correction as they think it scares the dog so they won't ever do their business in front of you. So this part is up to you. However it has always worked for us. If you are already giving the correction and it's not working perhaps drop it. If you aren't giving the correction, perhaps this will help the pup make the connection that inside is not what you want?). If we don't catch them in the middle of it, it's our own fault, there is never a correction, and we clean it up when they are not looking. It sounds like you are already giving all the praise for doing the right thing If the dog is weeing again when you bring it inside, this is when I would make sure I have the leash on him/her so that you can give the correction the second the dog starts to do it's business and straight outside. This way you don't have to pick it up or touch it which can be seen to the dog as a reward in itself..... And very importantly make sure you totally get rid of the urine/poo smell or it will keep going in the same places. The enzyme based cleaners are really good for removing the smell. Another little thing we do is, if there is a spot they tend to go back to, after thoroughly cleaning it, put some of the dogs bedding over it and they don't tend to go there. That's worked a couple of times for us on some serial inside, in the same spot, weers. And most importantly. Patience and persistance!!!! It's just a baby. It may take a while to get it right but it will eventually happen. Some dogs take a bit longer than others, but when the whole thing starts to fit together in their minds they realise outside gets praise and attention inside doesn't or inside gets my owners upset.

Paralysis ticks can be found in Victoria, usually along coastal areas but inland in some places. One of our local vets has a good description and illustrations of the types of ticks, it may help you identify the one you found..... http://www.bhvet.com.au/petcare/dogtick.php