malsrock

I agree, great advice

Personally, I have had working breeds for years with a keen interest in obedience training, so I don't want my dogs enjoying other dogs too much which affects their focus upon me. My dogs can have reactive tendancies and I don't trust them to run free and play nicely with strange dogs and wouldn't subject anyone elses dog to bad manners that mine may display with the wrong stimulus. Knowing this, I wouldn't take my dogs anywhere near unleashed areas where dogs are free to interact with them either just in case things got nasty with the wrong dog at the wrong time. To me it's a balance of risk and too often, I think people who seriously cannot control an off leash dog think an unleashed area is a free for all and anything goes The problem is, people do take known reactive and DA dogs into those places for a run thinking they have a right to do so which is what worries me. My dogs go nuts when you mention WALK or see a leash and we have a lovely time which I am sure they enjoy the outing and exercise just as much as dogs who visit dog parks, and I enjoy the risk reductions too. Fiona

Hi Guy's, Just looking for an opinion what people would do in this case: A dog 3 1/2 years old, had puppy vaccinations, a C5 booster 12 months later, another C5 booster 12 months after that and is due now for another under the 12 month regime. Would you re-vaccinate again, titre test, or would the dog be considered to have immunity for another year or so???. The vet doesn't recognise anything other than yearly boosters as extended regimes are off label apparantly??? Any thoughts appreciated please Fiona

It's a start Erny and a good springboard now a GSDCA view has been published for them to recognise what they have just preached, firstly beginning with the recognition of Schutzhund as a breeding pre-requisite and the recognition of dogs work titled in Australia. Fiona

I am not purposely being offensive to anyone but considering these type of situations come up regularly the simple answer to these scenarios is "don't do it". Don't take your dog to off leash dog parks etc to mingle with strange dogs because it's an accident waiting to happen. We can't control or know how other peoples dogs may behave and there is always the chance of people owning reactive dogs which they can't control or can't be bothered to control being there also that can and will attack your dog. It's bad enough counteracting off leash dogs in leashed areas on the street and paths, but letting your dog loose amoungst strange dogs to play gives me shivers up my spine just thinking about the risks involved in these practices. Just my honest thoughts on the matter in general Fiona

Well, some might tell you that, but are they right? A presumably reputable police dog trainer recently told me that the aim in proofing was to trigger the dog into defence or fight drive, whatever you want to call it. I gathered it was a nice way of saying "the dog should be seriously concerned for its wellbeing", because in the line of duty that's exactly what may happen, and they have to know the dog will react in the way that they need it to react. I think we have to be careful not to mix up the emotion behind a behaviour and how the dog reacts to it. Erik is a moderately proactive dog, so when he feels a little pressured he may well behave aggressively, whereas Kivi might feel the same level of pressure and do nothing. That reaction is obviously wildly different between both dogs, but how do we know it's not driven by the same emotional disturbance in both dogs? Incidentally, I'm sure it was a Ted Turner dvd I was watching that had a nice little flow chart including states that led to aggression. Frustration and rage where in there, I believe. Neither of those are fear-based. Training in defence drive is exactly that Corvus, the dog is pressured to fight for it's life basically and gains the courage to engage and fight learned by winning which consequently releasing the pressure that has been applied to the dog. The difference is, a truly fearful dog will retreat under pressure and a courageous dog won't, but they both display aggressive reactions that are fear based. Are they both fear aggressive, or is it only the dog that retreats under pressure considered fear aggressive??? This isn't always the case though. Some dogs just think 'who are you to even try and scare me, I'm not scared of you, i'll kill you.' But what is driving that emotion DerRottweiler???. Is it civil aggression, social dominance, fear based defence aggression or sharpness???. Fiona

Is the GSDCA saying the do recognise Schutzund, they don't or only in specific circumstances??? Great letter, but somewhat contradictory to their policies i think

SA law is a bit different where effective control is restrained on a leash of no longer than 1.8 or 2 metres???. In an off leash park, none are under effective control from that definition when unleashed, so I don't know how that one sits legally here in SA???. Fiona fiona i am in sa and effective control means that the dog must respons to your commands when off leash. Yes, you would think so, but the Dog and cat Management Act only referred to effective control as leashed and restrained by a person 16 years or over I think it was and the 1.8 or 2 metre long leash. I haven't looked at the Act for a while, but there was no mention of off leash control that I recall???. I have read some other acts that mentioned voice control perhaps Vic or another state, but I can't recall anything like that in our SA one??? Fiona

I can imagine your anger with the council. They put all these dangerous dog laws in place, then when an incident happens, they just mess around with it What's the point of laws if they are not prepared to use them properly..........I don't get it

She did not have effective control over her dog; several people (including myself) asked her to call her dog away. She would just wave and say "he's all noise" and continue her phone converation. When we tried to move away, the dog followed us. My dog was walking at my heel when he was attacked. She obviously had no intention of even trying to do the right thing..........I do hope you can nail her Elfin and hope your poor boy recovers well

The thing is I think people do know their dogs, they just don't seem to care. My dog has a scar above his eye and 2 on his lip now from the Am Staff that attacked him the other week. When it happened the guy wasn't surprised at all, and was just like, oh he's fine so long as he has his ball in his mouth. Incidentally, he actually dropped the ball on my dogs' head so he could attack him. Fortunately he has now been banned from having his dog off-lead I think, at least from the park anyway, and I have not seen him since. All I can think though is thank god my dog is so big, the Am Staff had attacked 5 other dogs and all of them had much more severe injuries I think because they were so much smaller. Only one tried to fight back, a red cattle dog, and he was the worst injured of all because it was much harder to separate them. But yeah, complete moron is the only explanation that I think fits. I don't understand what the good outcome is when you know that you have a dog who wants to kill other dogs and you still decide to take it to an off-lead park. Either they kill another dog probably getting injured in the process, or they get killed or seriously injured by another dog trying to defend themselves - doesn't make any sense to me. Hardest part about an attack though I think is how long it takes the human to get over it. In my case, I now avoid letting my dog interact with unknown staffies or am stafs, just because I feel like should another turn on him, he just doesn't seem to stand a chance even though he's a big powerful dog. It's sad, since there are so many staffies around, but I've just seen one too many attacks now and I can't seem to get over it :s He still has two friends though, one staffy and one am staff that he plays well with, and the owners have made an effort with the training and socialisation. You do know your dogs too I agree. My GSD won't attack other dogs, but he can react to other dogs rushing at him. My Malinios will chase other dogs and get snappy in the catch and more than likely fight, so I don't take them to dog parks and unleash them, wouldn't even consider it. I don't even like unleashed dogs interacting with mine leashed, so I avoid those situations altogther for everyone's benefit. We shouldn't be breed specific, but I am scared of Staffy type dog's off leash if they start rushing at mine even though having a GSD and Malinios who can handle themselves, so can the Staffy types if things go pear shaped. I size up other off leash dogs encountered and feel safer with dog's rushing us that I know my dogs can handle if it gets nasty. I would rather encounter an angry JRT than a Rotty or Staffy if that makes sense??? Fiona

SA law is a bit different where effective control is restrained on a leash of no longer than 1.8 or 2 metres???. In an off leash park, none are under effective control from that definition when unleashed, so I don't know how that one sits legally here in SA???. Fiona

Yes, I experienced an off leash dog about 8 years ago when a nasty little Terrier ran out of a driveway and bit my old GSD on the leg who was on leash. My dog bit the Terrier with one chomp and crushed his ribs and the Terrier had to be PTS...........it was a totally devistating experience that happened so quick. By the time I had hoisted my dog away, it was too late. I was frantic about believing my dog would be PTS over it especially a GSD injuring a small dog and the ranger visited from the council and said to me that the poor little Terrier's owners had broken the law and sadly their dog paid the ultimate price and nothing would be recorded against me or my dog. None the less, I was paraniod for some time about what happened after seeing how much damage a big dog can inflict on a little one and how fast it can happen, truly dreadful ;) Fiona

What beautiful dreams, I have tears streaming down my face thinking of the one and only life like dream of mine In 1990 on a cold and wet Saturday morning I was waiting for a shoe shop to open looking at tropical fish in a petshop window. When the petshop doors opened for business still waiting for the shoe shop to open I went in for a look. Jumping up at me in a pen as I walked past, was a 10 week old GSD puppy with a sign above it Pure Bred German Shepherd Male $200. I instinctively leaned into the pen and picked him up cuddled him as he licked my face. The petshop owner said to me "would you like to buy him, he likes you I see"???. This was a classical impulse buy that we tell everyone to never do, but still with him in one arm I rummaged through my bag with the other and had $180. I said to the petshop owner, I only have $180, will you take that???. He hesitated for second or two and said "ok my dear, only because I see that you are made for each other". I never bought the pair of shoes I wanted, and bought a puppy instead :p Getting him home and taking him out on the back lawn, the sun suddenly began to shine after a few minutes the crappy wet day was turning around in this moment with my new puppy on the back lawn playing.........Sunny, that's his name which fitted the moment so perfectly. I had no idea how to raise, train and control a drivey GSD and he was the naughtiest puppy I had ever encountered and developed every bad trait you could think of including severe stranger and dog aggression as he matured. Many suggested he should be PTS, he was dangerous and out of control, but he was my baby and my mission in life to make a gentleman out of him which I did succeed and was forced to spend time with my dog to learn how to train and handle him. 15 years on with a lifetime of perfect health his poor old body was worn out and sadly had to give him his wings and say goodbye to my beautiful Sunny boy. I had a second GSD Sam by that stage who is 8 years old now and had lived with Sunny for 5 years. About a year after Sunny had left us I had this dream one night. Sam and I were walking along this railway line construction near where we used to live where I only ever walked Sunny and could let him off leash for a run. I was telling Sam as we walked along about how we used to walk Sunny here where he could run and stretch his legs off leash. I heard a dog bark in the distance behind us, Sam turned around and wagged his tail, I turned to look too. In the distance there was a GSD with the same distinctive ears Sunny had when alert stood straight up vertical and closer together than the average GSD ears. Sam barked, the dog in the distance barked back wagging his tail, I screamed "Sunny here"!!!. This dog ran straight towards us full pelt as Sunny did so many years ago, it was Sunny, he had come to visit us to walk together one last time running straight into my arms, he jumped and bounded around squeaked and yapped as he always did when I got home from work. He had a wrestle with Sam as he always did in his younger days like nothing had ever changed except Sunny was young and in his prime. We all walked together for about 5kms as we used to do, the dream wasn't sad, we were all happy it was a wonderful feeling and it was all so real. We walked up the path onto the street Sam beside me and Sunny behind and as we reached the road I commanded sit and I woke up and opened my eyes, Sam was sitting along side the bed looking at me I hoped that Sam shared my dream too which I like to think he did. Fiona

I thought perhaps given that it could be virtually impossible to control a dog running free with others at every moment, it may have been an enter at your own risk situation when there are no requirements for dogs to be physically restrained in those areas...........No???. Fiona

What are the general laws governing off leash areas where the normal leash control is not required???. I don't mean someone allowing their dog to terrorise others and act aggressively, but dog's being dog's in what is essentially a free for all environment, any dog could snap and bite given the right stimulus completely out of character for the most responsible owner which can happen quickly as we know. Your dog could be terrific with other dogs and playing beautifully as it has done a hundred times before, then could suddenly end up in a fight and hurt another dog which could have been triggered by the other dog, but by the time you can recall or physically collect the dog, it's over and the damage has been done.........where do you stand legally in a designated area that permits dogs to run free, exercice and play together???. Fiona

No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. The sooner the better I think Erny. Other influences are steering the ANKC's ship it seems to me. What skin off the ANKC's nose is retaining titles on pedigrees unless they are trying to save costs on printer ink..........doesn't make sense from an ANKC perspective why they would entertain the idea as a good thing unless they are trying to look after another organisations agenda for the wrong reasons Can we really trust the ANKC as the sole official registery and canine administrator to do the right thing??? Although I love the idea of an alternate FCI associated working dog registry in theory, I really do, my concern is that by forming another registry, we will lose any power to influence the AnKC. And only the AnKC have the political influence (through sheer numbers!) to influence the councils. The issue is bigger than keeping titles on pedigrees, I think. The issue is the AnKC's attitude towards schutzhund and other bite sports. If the AnKC stand up and proclaim that schutzhund is legitimate, I think city councils & state government will listen. If the AnKC say schutzhund dogs are dangerous, and just trying to form our own registry to get away with "attack training", then I think we're all in big trouble. Better we stay with the AnKC and try to influence them (if we get enough AnKC members writing to them, they will listen!) than abandon them and have no influence over them. JMO. I don't disagree with your feelings which have good merit I think Staranaise, but wouldn't it be a more powerful stamp of authority to have support from the likes of the FCI, WUSV etc to debate government bite sport legislation in opposition to an ANKC view???. The ANKC, a body that has never been involved in bite sports or has any real knowledge to provide a qualified opinion against world recognised organisations who conduct the sports, the government would have to listen to the most valid experience. The ANKC don't even recognise the sports let alone fight for them, but an organisation who will fight and use specialised word level entities in support I think would be a better option to gain the required outcome. Fiona

Yes, the head of the one I met was slightly more "setter-like", but I would say closer to a GR than a Lab. I would love to know the temperament and exercise differences of a Flat Coat too- the white fur of my Goldie shows up too much on my mostly black clothes! I believe that GRs were originally bred from FCs? But I have heard they are more boisterous than GRs. Yes, our freinds Flatty was often mistaken for a Gordon Setter X or a cross breed with a bit of Lab............very few people could ever identify her breed :p

I agree, the Belgian Malinios is missing from the list and the GSD is the smartest of that lot

What is that supposed to mean? I reckon they are smarter than the ones you mentioned. In fact, they are up with the Poodles in the smart range, but they don't have the grooming needs. Short hair and very easy to care for in that respect. Here's the intelligent's list top 10: Border Collie Poodle German Shepherd Golden Retriever Doberman Pinscher Shetland Sheepdog Labrador Retriever Papillon Rottweiler Australian Cattle Dog

A friend of ours had a black Flatcoat in the late 80's, she was a beautiful dog with the most gorgeous soft shiny coat midway between a Golden and Lab coat. She was a barker too with a keen ear and very territorial in the back yard unlike the stranger friendliness of most Goldens and Labs. She would never let a stranger in the side gate without the owners invitation I recall. She crossed the bridge with HD in the end at nearly 13 but had suffered for a few years prior. Fiona

No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. The sooner the better I think Erny. Other influences are steering the ANKC's ship it seems to me. What skin off the ANKC's nose is retaining titles on pedigrees unless they are trying to save costs on printer ink..........doesn't make sense from an ANKC perspective why they would entertain the idea as a good thing unless they are trying to look after another organisations agenda for the wrong reasons Can we really trust the ANKC as the sole official registery and canine administrator to do the right thing???

It's been interesting to learn the differences between the Golden and Lab, both beautiful breeds I have always liked. Does anyone know where a Flat Coated Retriever sits in the Goldie/Lab scenario.........not trying to derail the thread just that the Flat Coat has similar looks and temperament from what I have seen and interested to know if a Flatty is more like a Goldie, Lab or different again???

Great choice What about a Belgian Malinios, short coat, meduim/large, intelligent and you can buy an off switch called a crate

I am wondering how Royal Canin stacks up in food reviews.........any ideas