jacqui835

This is a terrible situation, and rottie cross terrier doesn't sound like a breed I'd like to own... That said, this comment made me lol

I agree with it to an extent, but I completely disagree with the idea that dogs don't recognise size. A small balanced dog will behave differently from a larger balanced dog, because the world is simply more threatening and everything is bigger than what they are. This doesn't mean however that the smaller dog can't be dominant. Dominance in dogs is based on more than strength and size, it comes down to who is the most confident and competent leader and who can make the best decisions for the group, which is fortunate indeed for the people who own dogs stronger than themselves (such as myself).

I don't object to students studying on a dog that is due to be PTS. However I fail to see the correlation between this and a human being whose condition/injury is incompatible with life, donating an organ to either save or improve another's life. There are very few people in society who do disagree with organ donation, and those that do tend to do so due to religious beliefs. Could you explain this further? As I read it, benefiting through surgery on a being that is going to die anyway - either directly in the case of organ donation or indirectly through educational use (but potentially more benefit in the long run since a student can go on to save many lives if they have great training). I had a friend who didn't want to be an organ donor, not because he was religious but because he wanted all of his 'bits' with him when he died. It was actually quite a contentious point for us.

I don't think it is the best of a bad situation though, I think it does contribute to an ugly side of veterinary practice. I know exactly why the phrase 'they are going to die anyway' sits badly with RottnBullies, it sits badly with me too because I've seen hints of it with vets treating my animals. Basically throwing in the towel because they are pretty much knocking on deaths door. It's going to die anyway so why bother wasting time and money figuring out what's wrong with it? Many vets I've dealt with over the years have had this demeanor, maybe it's their experience maybe it's their training but I do think that it's an issue which is often ignored and IMO needs further investigation. To me it's not the welfare of these animals as people are so quick to point out, they will die anyway, however the toll on our young, learning veterinary students where they learn that 'oh well it's going to die anyway so make sure you don't cry or have any moral objections to it because that means you're just too damn soft and namby pamby to be a vet!!!', well that's a different story altogether. A vet tech student had an objection to a dissection experiment and was told by the lecturer "how are you going to be a vet tech if you can't handle that?!" (said with a certain amount of scorn and contempt), the problem is that people seem to think that a moral objection to something is somehow a sign of weakness. Excessive desensitisation is something I have a real problem with, we want vets to be hardened about death while training yet we want them to be sensitive and understanding while treating our own pets? Can you see how this would create a conflicting set of ethical values? You have to be desenstised to be able to perform at your optimum. Take surgeons for example. I did work experience with a gynie and when performing surgery, he always had the person's face covered. They can't operate on their family members because they can't think clearly. The ability to distance oneself is to the advantage of the patient, be them animal or human because the result is a professional who can focus on implementing their skills and assessing the task at hand, rather than being overwhelmed by the emotional context. They literally need to disengage the part of their brain that would be getting all worried about the fact that the life of a family member (be it pet or human) is in their hands, and what the repercussions of failure could be - ie children and adults becoming depressed, destroying lives etc. The role of a vet is not to counsel you, it's to save your pet and keep them as healthy as possible. If you need counseling, well there are professionals trained for that too. The skill sets and personal traits you require to be a good surgeon are extremely different from those you require to be a good counselor. I know which set I want my vets to have...

A tiny bit OT but do you have any toys I could buy for paps? My sister has 2 and has the exact same problem, in that they love toys, but there are few that seem suitable. She currently gets them a mix of cat toys and baby toys. And so it's not too OT - well, I am purely a dog lover lol. We go to obedience and agility and I honestly love my dog more than anything else in the world right now (it's a good thing my OH doesn't come on these forums, but he probably suspects as much anyway). My two passions were animal science and psychology - ended up choosing psych because you can take biology as an elective which I did - so it seemed like a compromise. When I have made enough money to live off investments (lol if that ever happens...), there are 2 things I plan to do that involve dogs. One day when I'm closer to that reality I'll post about it here in the hopes of getting some input. I think as dog owners we're very lucky to have this forum, it's an incredible source of information.

That sounds like a great idea actually.

My partner and I don't really have similar taste in breeds - he likes the hunting hounds like vizlas and weims etc, and I like the guardian breeds. I knew him when I got my dobe, but we didn't live together and at that stage, he was actually scared of dobermans. Since then he has grown to love my dobe almost as much as I do, so I suppose I've been lucky. He wanted to choose our second dog and naturally tried to steer us towards a hunting breed - I felt like I had to at least consider his input since the dobe had been completely my choice. So, we went out to meet breeders of both the breed I wanted (a GSD) and the one he wanted (a weim), and fortunately, he loved the GSD's because they reminded him a bit of our dobe - similar sort of temperament, just with a few differences. Not such a 1 person dog, a property guardian as well as a personal one, more likely to enjoy playing fetch since the breed has been bred to perform a variety of tasks and more fur so that she will be able to keep herself and our dobe warm in winter lol. My partner has bonded very strongly to my dobe, but the dobe is a bit of a one person dog, and so we have decided that as much as we can control, we will try and encourage the new dog to bond to my OH the way the dobe has bonded to me. And I'm not saying the dobe doesn't love him, because I think he does, but it's just little things like, if me and Dan walk in separate directions, he can't even call the dog away from me unless I tell him to go find Dan, and even then, he will run over, then run back, so to separate him from me you basically need a lead. I think that having a dog bonded to him - like being the dogs' 'person' will make a huge difference to how he views their relationship. And in the case of the OP - isn't a dobe a working breed too? I mean sure he also fits into the lap dog category, but if you have a job for him he's overjoyed, and he actually loves anything you ask him to do, like agility, obedience etc. Dobes I think are one of the few breeds that might be really intelligent but are also not independent at all, and so you can ask them to do whatever you want, and they are just desperate to please.

It's true, maybe I had him on too long a lead. He was right at my side, and I was teaching walking with a loose lead. I didn't want to have to pull his lead really tight every time we saw a person because I was worried that would teach him to be tense and on alert every time a new person approached. Now well to be honest, if he doesn't listen to me, you have to really get in there and make quite a scene to stop him jumping, because he's incredibly strong and will pull you along if you're just trying to hold onto the lead. What I used to do was grab him by the collar, yank it to the side, and say no. But it didn't work because whilst trying to get your dog under control, the other person is already patting your dog and laughing and saying it's fine. And you're trying to explain, no it's really not, what if he jumps on a physically impaired person or child Look it's just one suggestion. I remember feeling quite hopeless about the whole situation myself and well it took 10 mins and my dog has not jumped on anyone for a couple of weeks now. He still loves meeting people, but damn just today I took him into the pet supplies store to get his home made deli food lol and the shop assistant who loves him actually got upset because she thought he wasn't happy to see her because he didn't try to jump on her. When she bent down and asked for kisses he went up and licked her face - he didn't hurt anyone, the shop was unscathed (he's knocked things over before from jumping which they found funny but I thought was really wrong), it was just a great outcome for me, and something that if the OP is desperate and feels like they've tried everything else (like I did - I had a dog who had completed advanced obedience but still jumped on people :s), well it's an option hey.

I don't know, sometimes I didn't even see the person coming. We would be sitting at a cafe, and the next thing you know there would be people patting our dog and literally encouraging him to jump on them (when he was a puppy). Very often people patted him without asking, because as they approached, his ears went back, he put on his cute face and his body language was screaming - I want to meet you. I guess I wasn't comfortable yelling at people from afar who 'might' come over to my dog not to come near and not to touch him. SecretKei's post explains this better than I could. Difference is I didn't tell enough people to f* off and consequently a fun behaviour was rewarded. Now when people approach he still looks extra happy but he doesn't jump. No-one ever hurt him or was cruel, and because it was all done by trainers and people at the training club, the no jumping command was always followed through with a, oh good boy now I'll pat you etc. So he's not scared of people, he just now knows that jumping on strangers isn't a good idea, because they might get angry. The way the trainers did it btw (in case the op is interested) was to stand straight, hands at their side and just say no jumping quite firmly and loudly, the second he even looked like he was about to jump. I tried the commands thing and he seemed to get most of them. But I don't know what you mean. I'm currently sitting on the couch with my laptop on my lap, and the dog is on the floor. If I say, "want to go out the back?" he goes to the back door, sit he sits whether he can see me or not, leave it - he leaves it even though he's looking at the item and not at me etc - so I'm not sure if that's what you meant or if I'm supposed to be out of the room or something. Point is, he can be mouthing us and we can say, no biting and he stops. He can be kind of quivering ready to jump and we say no jumping he stops. And the real point is, we had a dog who jumped on people who grew to be 40kg and was rewarded intermittently for the behaviour (which is the way to make a behaviour even stronger). We introduced a negative consequence for the jumping action, but not for interacting with people. We now have a dog who still loves to interact with people but who no longer jumps as a way of greeting.

Are you a member of your state govening dog body, eg Dogs Vic, Dogs NSW??? you can join as a acciated member, this also allows you to compete for Obedience titles, Agility Min age of participating is 2 yrs for Et Hmm what is the one for SA, and how do you join? Here is there web site you find the contact details in there, just give them a ring & have a chat about joining up they can give you all the details http://www.dogssa.com.au/Website/index.php thanks

Are you a member of your state govening dog body, eg Dogs Vic, Dogs NSW??? you can join as a acciated member, this also allows you to compete for Obedience titles, Agility Min age of participating is 2 yrs for Et Hmm what is the one for SA, and how do you join?

Wow I will have to do this with my dog when he's old enough. We currently do 15km at least 3 times a week at an average speed of 20-25km, would be awesome to have a title for it. I have to keep riding further and faster to tire him out, he's getting ridiculously fit... One thing though, if he's not on the limited or full register can he still get a title? He's just a mixed bred doberman.

What exactly do you think "don't jump" or "no" means to a dog? Don't you think its easier for an animal to understand what's required of it rather than what isn't? If you tell your dog to sit before allowing people to approach and get them to back away if it breaks the sit, dogs learn very quickly that no bum on ground means no greeting. I've said before, I've seen a talented trainer get a dog doing this with 5 minutes of consistent reward for the right behaviour and withdrawal of the person for the wrong behaviour. No, the behaviour wasn't likely to have been completely extinguished but the fact is that the dog knew what behaviour was required, rather than what behaviour wasn't. I really don't think its a good idea to be getting people to tell your dog off for a behaviour that as a handler it is completely within your power to control and correct. Why frighten a dog when you can give it a very clear picture of what is required of it. You'll never see me support any program of training that requires strangers to behave aversively or frighten dogs, ESPECIALLY for breeds with guarding instincts. Maybe, but you need to read the OP's post again. The situation sounds like the same as the one I had. It is very difficult to stop everyone from coming over to your dog, especially, when, if like me, you like to take your dog everywhere with you. Therefore, they often get rewarded for the wrong behaviour and it's extremely frustrating. You can have a few people doing the right thing - ie not patting the dog until he sits nicely, but if you have even one person pat them when they jump well then they think they should just always try that approach - because it might be rewarded AND because it's fun for them. So we had to introduce a negative response to unsolicited jumping - same as if he jumps on the couch without permission he knows he's in trouble (so they can obviously understand the concept of only being allowed to do things with permission). It was not frightening the dog so much as giving it a shock, and making it very clear that in some cases the behaviour (the jumping) was completely unwanted. He was doing it because he was excited and because he wanted affection and knew he could get it that way, as it had worked so many times before for him. My dog is not the type to do something to try and start a fight, so now that he knows that not everyone will like being jumped on, he doesn't do it. All I can say is it worked perfectly for us. And what does no jump mean? It means don't jump... Dobes - at least my one, seem at least to be very capable of learning lots of different words. I can say to my dog, inside, outside out the front, out the back, get x toy, get your collar, no biting, get behind me, leave it, get behind me, get back, stay close, cross over, get off the road, quick, slow down, give me paw, give me other one, find x person, say hi to x dog (he learns their names too), careful (if I don't trust a dog and don't think he say hello like usual - he learned as a puppy that these were the dogs likely to charge and be antisocial), gentle (which I think he just thinks means lick or something but no bite and no paws), bring here etc etc etc - the list goes on. I would say most dogs would be able to learn what no jumping means. But of course you need to work out the right training method for your dog - they all have unique personalities. This was just a suggestion as I had the exact same problem with the same breed and had managed to resolve it with the help of our training club.

We had a similar problem with a similar dog (another dobe). We went back to training, and I asked the instructors and a couple of other people there to help me. I told my dog not to jump, but if he did anyway, the people very firmly told him off, and made it a very unpleasant experience for him - almost gave him a bit of a fright. Took about 10 mins, and now he will only jump if asked to. Then they learn that sure if people encourage and ask for it you can jump on them - and to be honest there are times when I ask him to jump on me and give me a hug. But it's no longer his default reaction, and he knows there can be negative consequences (not just from me) if he makes a mistake and jumps on someone who doesn't want it.

Yup. We own a doberman and many people told us that he would 'turn' once he hit 1. Of course he didn't, so now they have revised their facts and claim it will happen instead at 2 or 3 :s And it gets even worse if we confess that our dog has some rottie in him... Don't worry about it, you will never be able to convince every moron out there, just create the dog you want and enjoy it.

This. To me this actually seems like they're making the most of a pretty drab situation. Dogs that are going to be put down anyway firstly being utilised to improve the skill of future vets. On the other hand, as a psychology student, I never got over the fact that I spent 8 weeks taming and training a rat, and then one week was told it had been killed as it was now too old for the program. I was devestated, and would have happily given "Spike" a home with me (my study partner would have done the same), but we were never even informed of the intentions for these animals. ;)

As many of you will know by now, we have an entire male doberman who we plan to keep entire despite having no plans to breed. I have also started a couple of threads that talk about how my partner has decided he wants his own dog because the dobe is a bit of a one person dog, plus we know our dog will love it (he never looks happier than when his canine friends come over to play - or even new dogs, he's just a social butterfly). We have decided on a female to increase the chances of them getting along long-term. We have even finally decided on a breed and are meeting with several breeders (yay for interstate holidays). The problem is as our second dog will also be a large breed, we don't want to desex her before 12-18 months. This will likely mean that she experiences at least one season before she's desexed, and therein lies the problem. Sending my dobe off to boarding is not an option, and I'm sure we'll end up feeling the same about the new dog too (ie want her with us all the time). Our yard can be divided and has fencing in place already. But will I be able to have them in the house together etc? The dobe has been around entire females on heat before, and though he's interested he has always still listened to me, but I can't even imagine what it will be like if they're friends - does it make a difference? Does anyone have experience with this sort of thing? Please don't tell me to desex my dobe - there's no point posting that here as it's as much an option for me as sending my dog away to boarding for a couple of weeks (I'm one of those people who like the increased feistiness of an entire dog and love his personality the way he is).

Lol at the dog who 'caught' the mouse in the mouse trap... I'm not sure if my dog could catch a mouse or rat, but I know he can catch rabbits - which was unexpected since he's a doberman with a bit of rottie in him - and rabbits seem like a hard animal to catch. He has caught several, but hasn't killed any yet. He just gets them between his paws, then lies down on top of them and licks them, sometimes removing a bit of hair. I actually thought the rabbits were dead at first, because they were still and stiff. But when I took them off him and put them in a dark box to throw out, they came back to life! They typically run off seemingly no worse for wear except for maybe a couple of bald spots... Fortunate indeed given that he doesn't only catch wild rabbits; if you can believe it the last two neighbours we've had (one in nsw and one in sa) have had 'free-range' rabbit pets that often visited our yard in search of greener pastures.

This is true. I reckon I have just about the fussiest dog out there, and he also seems to be very weight conscious lol. He always seems to be off his food, but if we offer him roast or bbq chicken... well, he's a different dog.

Haha this is a cute thread. My dog has a few attitude problems... Firstly, there are tricks he likes to do, and tricks he feels are beneath him. If for example you ask him to speak or to jump up, well these are desirable activities. If however you ask him to roll over, he is less than impressed. Firstly, he'll try and walk away. When we tell him off for that, he'll start whinging and whining and trying to 'talk' over the top of you asking him to do the command. I know we shouldn't tolerate his little tantrums, but it just cracks us up. We do always make sure he follows through in the end.

Ohh what a beautiful dog! I don't anything looks quite as nice as a shiny black well-muscled dog, but unfortunately, I knew that because I wanted a dog I could take everywhere, I would be better off with a red doberman rather than the traditional black and tan. It's definitely true. I have met up with a couple who own a male entire doberman almost the same age and same size as mine a couple of times now (they are great playmates), and yet despite the black one probably having the softer and sillier temperament, people are always trying to pat and hug my dog, and giving his a decent birth.

I have a doberman who has a bit of rotty in him who to date has not been desexed. He did most of his growing by about 8-9 months, but continued to grow slowly (and actually had a couple of short spurts too) until he was about 18 months. He probably gained about another 2 inches at the shoulder from when he turned 1. We could tell he'd finished growing because we were finally able to get some weight to stick on him. Then he just started to get really musclely and ridiculously strong, and is continuing to bulk up. Seems like it just depends on the actual dog.

Well you're right there, but I suppose it would be difficult to do a scientific study because it's almost impossible to isolate all of the factors. It's not like we could have 10 beagles with floppy ears to compare to 10 beagles with erect. We can only compare the few people who own erect eared dogs who bother to take their pets to the vet when they have ear infections to the masses who own floppy eared dogs who bother to take their pets to the vet when they have ear infections. There are many more floppy eared dog breeds than erect, and more importantly, the floppy eared breeds typically comprise all of the most registered dogs, except for GSD's. I suppose the fact that it's a common ailment for many floppy eared breeds compared to not being mentioned on the common conditions for erect eared breeds seemed relatively indicative of a correlation. But you're right - essentially no-one to date that I know of has done a study that conclusively proves floppy ears cause ear infections, they have merely identified correlations. What's important to me however is not that they've identified a correlation, but that they've developed a hypothesis to explain why dogs with floppy ears would experience more ear infections which can be tested under other circumstances - for example, you have something out in the sun and the wind, it won't grow nearly as much bacteria as something in the dark and that can stay moist due to an absence of wind.

The family dog we had as a child killed all of my mice by actually pulling their metal cage apart, I was about 9 at the time. Strangely enough however, when I decided I wanted a rat instead of more mice, and being a rat I got a lot closer to it and interacted with it a lot more and eventually even succeeded in convincing my parents to let it live indoors, the dog stopped wanting to kill it. I was very young and naive but fortunately our gut instincts were right/our luck held out, and the dog and rat co-existed inside the house for 2 years until the rat died of cancer I think the difference was the dog decided this rat was part of the pack, but if I could go back, well it makes me nervous just to think how close to disaster we could have been.

Indeed. To be significant however, we're going to need a sample size greater than one person's experiences... It kind of similar to what cigarette companies do, in that they claim that because they know of someone who smoked and didn't die from it, cigarettes can't possibly be bad for you. Yay for scientific method to help us see the forest from the trees. I haven't seen any scientific studies that show that (all other things being equal) dogs with flop ears tend to suffer from more ear infections than cropped or naturally prick ears. Can you post a link? Well it would seem obvious no? Consider what bacteria, yeast and fungi require for optimal development - that would be a moist, dark, warm environment. Look at a german shepherd/kelpie/cattle dog and then look at a beagle/spaniel/labrador, and you tell me who is providing the better conditions for infection causing organisms... "Otitis externa is an inflammation of the outer ear and ear canal. Animals are commonly prone to ear infection, and this is one of the most common manifestations of allergy in dogs. In dogs, those breeds with floppy ears are more prone, since air flow is limited and a warm, moist environment built up, which is conducive to infection." "The first was the advent of pets with floppy ears. Floppy ears trap moisture and air within the ear canal and make it an ideal place for bacteria and yeast to grow. This results in infection and inflammation as bacteria and yeast proliferate . Cocker Spaniels, Setters, Basset hounds, Beagles and, Shar Peis commonly have this problem, but any breed or mutt with floppy ears is more susceptible than a pet with ears that stand erect." "Ear shape. Pets with floppy ears are more prone to ear infections because the air does not dry the ears naturally, as it does for pets with erect ears." "A dog with floppy ears is more prone to developing ear infections and unfortunately, many dog owners with breeds like Cocker Spaniels, Beagles and Basset Hounds find that their dogs suffer from chronic ear infections. "The key to treating and curing chronic ear infections in dogs long ears is to understand why these frequent infections occur. Why Are Dogs With Floppy Ears More Prone to Chronic Ear Infections? A dog with floppy ears is more apt to develop frequent and chronic ear infections due to the warm, dark, moist environment that's created inside the ear canal." "Dog breeds with large, floppy ears are more prone to ear infections. This is because the large ears tend to trap moisture within the ear due to poor air circulation. This leads to the growth of microorganisms in the ear leading to infections. Also, the dog ear mites get an opportunity to hide and grow within the ear. The hair growth in the ears also block the air circulation. These factors along with improper pet care lead to ear infection in dogs. You can prevent ear infections in dogs by taking some good home care. You need to clean the dog ears, especially ones with large floppy ears, regularly to prevent development of infections." It's not really disputed...