jacqui835

I think the other dog is a dobe The part where the OP says "similar to our existing dog" is referring to the drive. Thanks, that's exactly right. We are looking for a shepherd this time, and unfortunately, our other breeder only has dobermans and a small toy breed (I think yorkies or something). And yes, we want one with a straight, level back - old style german shepherd. I am looking into breeders myself, but was hoping that perhaps someone had had some good experiences with a couple or something along those lines...

I have already posted this in the GSD breed threads, but since this is the most viewed part of the forums, I thought that there might be somewhere here who has some advice. I was wondering though whether perhaps anyone had any advice. My partner and I would like to add a Gsd to our family, and we have been asking around and meeting a few breeders, but really want to make sure we make the right choice. We are looking for a traditional Gsd - one with a straight back, highish drive to be similar to our existing dog, and athletic so that eventually happy to come on our long bike rides. A breeder that focuses on intelligence, confidence and stability would be ideal - as that's how I would describe our dobe breeder. We live in sa but interstate is not a problem, we just want the right dog. Any recommendations would be great, thanks

My partner was a bull terrier cross - looked like a cute pitbull type

Lol I'm a weimeraner... Better not show my partner or he'll insist we get one for sure!

Thanks for sharing, loved it :D

Excellent post, and conveys many of my fears too.

Would you desex a Grey at 8-12 weeks tho'? Or is it that if a dog is not good enough to breed from, they are therefore not good enough for show or dog sport, so the side effects of early desexing aren't as important as keeping them out of the gene pool? I say that with kindness btw, being a companion is an important role. I will support initiatives to screen people before they get pets - issue licenses or something. But I will never support mandatory desexing. It changes your dog dramatically, and I am personally not a fan of a the desexed dog. I managed to talk my sister into desexing her papillons, when previously they had considered breeding from them. Their male is completely unrecognisable. Desexed as an adult, he has since gained a lot of weight, lost almost all his drive and become lazy. His fur lost some of its beauty and is 'fluffier' - this is probably the part they dislike most. The female was desexed at 6 months, and is just a lot leggier than the male. She has always been lazy and fat so we don't know what her personality would have been like otherwise. Desexing was the right decision for them though, because they didn't bother with training, and a desexed fat lazy dog is much easier to handle. I'm sure not all dogs react so strongly to being desexed, and maybe through reducing their food substantially (compared to entire dogs) and forcing them to exercise, you can reduce the physical effects. But the male papillon used to want to go for bike rides and 10km runs with his owner. He likes his walks still, but has no urge to go on adventures with the pack, and is content with a walk around the block. If his owner pulls out his bike, the dog runs to the end of the street, and then turns around and goes home. This all changed within a couple of weeks/months of him being desexed. People just need to screen the homes they send their dogs to, not change the dogs themselves.

If there was screening for suitable owners, you wouldn't need to sell all dogs desexed. I do not personally like desexed dogs and yet I think my dog has a very good home. It does affect their personalities and looks, so we should have a choice. But I agree that all owners should be screened before hand, especially for these sorts of breeds. Of course I'd say the same about having children...

Oh wow and just this morning, another one. "dobermann male must go" This time though they want $250 for him.

Yeah, they have so much to offer under the right conditions, but they're certainly not the breed for everyone. And he's always been energetic, but since switching him to an all natural raw diet, he's just a machine... It just breaks my heart because dobermans become sooo attached to their owners. I remember when I got mine, the breeder was so thorough about ensuring that we were the right people to own him and would always be able to keep him, because she said that although she would take him back, they'd had a lot of trouble rehoming them after they'd bonded to their first home (she'd had and bred dobes for over 30 years).

When you spend a lot of time here, you sometimes forget that the majority of dogs live under very different circumstances. I can't help but keep an eye out on dobermans being sold or rehomed, and this has to be one of the worst I think I've ever seen How did they even get a doberman in the first place? Dobermans do not take as easily to being re-homed as some breeds and it just breaks my heart Well here's what the ad said for anyone who is interested. "i have a beautiful male dobermann that is just a bit boisterous for me and young children he has a gorgeous nature regretful sale or swap for older more obedient dog"

That's kind of how it is for me, in that you have to narrow it down to the breeds you just have to have. I will always own a doberman now, though the terrible thing is I own a doberman who isn't quite a purebred, he also has a bit more rottie and even a bit of ridgeback in him so he's very unique - and I don't really like other australian dobes anymore compared to him. He's kind of irreplaceable now, I'm not for creating mutts but he really is a superior specimen - slightly cuter looking than your average dobe, less pointy, ridiculously clever and good-natured (whilst having protected me now from weirdos at night on two occasions) more healthy - dobes sadly aren't a breed known for longevity (just had his hips checked and he's perfect etc) and attracts a lot of attention wherever he goes (we get some crazy stud fee offers - it's lucky I'm not desperate for money). Of course I'm biased though lol. So when he passes, and god knows how I will cope with that, I am going to look into importing a dobe from europe or the states that reminds me of the dobe in that john travolta movie, eyes of the angel (look up doberman eyes of the angel on youtube, and you will see the most beautiful animal god ever put on this earth...) Going to need a lot of money for that though no doubt, might import a few and try and create something in Australia so I can always have some, even though I'm not really keen on the idea of breeding. I have a thing for german shepherds too, and I will have to own one eventually. Don't remember when or why I started wanting a doberman, I must have been very very young.

Which is pretty much all of them (with some exceptions). It would be hard to say they weren't getting enough exercise (although I wouldn't rule that out as a possible factor in the captive wolf problem). All the documentaries I've ever seen on wolves and coyotes have left me with a different understanding (and just confirmed it with a couple of google searches). A wolf pack typically only has one breeding pair, but can have up to 15 + adult individuals both male and female. The alpha pair breed, the rest help raise the young, they are typically related anyway. I know in lions the males leave (or are kicked out) upon reaching sexual maturity, as do elephants (although of course no males stay with the herd at all so it's a bit different), but it's a different story for wolves. I have read that young animals may leave to find a mate and start a pack of their own, but that this is not the norm. I always thought that was why dogs fit in so well with a family so long as they are not occupying an alpha position.

and the fact you consider size to be an issue shows you and probably a few others dont understand how I do it. Size does not matter I can help a mastiff in place with little effort - everyone can help their dog into position. This is because everyone thinks I'm yanking them around and manhandling them against what they actually want to do which is wrong. I'd just like to note that I have been taught to put my dogs into a sit position. I just push gently on their bum to make them sit... jenna does it quite well.. but as the topic title says, max can be a shit. lol but a lot of the time he is quite good, will sit and stay until I tell him to get up. I dont mind a hands on approach but thats just how IVE been trained! As the owner of a young entire male doberman, we have experienced similar sorts of things. He will be being naughty, so myself or my partner will tell him to sit. Usually with me he listens, but with my partner it's a different story. If he doesn't do what I tell him, I get up, follow him around until he's cornered and he sits. If I give a command, I always ensure it's followed through. And I very rarely touch him at all, I just stand over him. If my partner tries to do the same thing though, the dog will sometimes crouch down in a play position and then half challenge him - maybe growl a bit or even jump up at him. At this point, my partner will grab him by the collar, yank him sideways and repeat the command, and I always come over and stand beside him. Once I get involved, he has always given up immediately and sat down. My partner is more hands on with the dog, and I think the dog likes it, and deliberately tries to get him angry so that he'll 'play' with him. There's no fun in my discipline, I'm not going to try and force the dog to physically sit because I can't, and I actually think the dog knows this, so it all has to be mental. But it's an ongoing battle between my partner and him. Dan loves him, but is convinced the dog wants his spot in the pack lol.

I too have never crate trained a dog, but have also never had a dog who wasn't toilet trained. A dog that age should be able to hold it in for a long time - sometimes I get home from work and my dog has held it in for like 9 hours (I'm talking about wees as well), so the first thing I would do is take the dog to the vet and ensure there's no problems that end. Whilst I don't crate train though, I did keep my dog very confined until I was sure he was toilet trained. At night, he slept in my room and could barely get out of his bed without alerting me. If he did try to get up, we took him outside immediately, and hung around outside till he went. If I couldn't supervise him 100% he was outside. What I found really helped was teaching him a command to 'go toilet'. Treat when they do, and make it a good treat. He is so good at this command now that I can walk up to whatever structure I like, tell him to 'go toilet' and he will (not that I ever would of course...) I also found that telling the dog off for a mistake done earlier was very effective. Prior to doing that, he would go outside and get his treat, but if I wasn't there, he would go inside because as far as he was concerned, outside was preferable but there was no real reason not to go inside. You have to catch them in the act a couple of times (so not leaving them unsupervised where they can have accidents), but once you have, I am a firm believer that dogs can understand something bad they did a while go. My dog would hide from me when I got home if he'd had an accident; if he hadn't he'd be his usual affectionate and hyper self - so he definitely knew it was going to upset me when I found it. Vigilance and persistence are key. And don't scare your dog. If your partner doesn't want the dog, you need to sit down and sort that out first, because the dog may continue to have accidents just because its feeling so emotionally unstable.

Hi Steve, I think what youre doing is really lovely. I know when I lost my dad a couple of years ago I was a complete mess so she's lucky to have you. My partner and I live on a huge block in Adelaide with only one very social dog, so if you still need a place for any of the dogs, or anyone else is struggling to look after them, we're very happy to help. Feel free to pm me.

Lymphoma is a type of cancer, and yes whilst it can be fast growing, you couldn't watch it increase in size. The kind of increase you seem to be describing would be indicative either of a burst saliva gland, or some type of infection. Either way, the dog needs immediate medical attention.

I completely agree with you oakway on the 'expect the unexpected' - the thing I don't agree with you about was that going to a dog park is eventually going to lead to seeing dogs fight... as some of us have said on here - some of us have NEVER seen a dog fight that has been serious, as in leading to blood shed (not that other dog fights AREN'T serious). And I think everyone who goes to a dog park would be stupid to think that all dogs want to play nicely. Again, we are just saying from experience that dog fights aren't as common as people think. And I think people have every right to come on here and talk about a fight they've seen - plus, the OP was actually asking for advice on whether or not she should report the owners etc, not just to bitch about the dog fight. I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have already said "I" was not referring to the the OP. I said stop complaining, not stop reporting. Most of us are just plain sick and tired of these reports (I know I am) of what happens at Dog Parks. What we are saying is, that if you frequent Dog Parks these incidents MAY happen and be aware of it. What some of us are trying to tell people reading this out there that dog fights happen and they appear to be more frequent at Dog Parks. NOBODY said that they were the norm. This what Oakway saying is common sense is like saying I am not wearing seat belt becuase I never had accident in the car. Maybe you dont having accident in the car or see dog fights at the park, but doesnt mean is safe to drive with no seatbelt or go to the dog park and you needing to remember that accidents can happen and there is ways to minimize the risk with things you cant controlling. You cant control idiot drive through the red light and hit you and you cant control idiot taking nasty dog into the park, but you can control some aspects to prevent these happenings or reducing the effects if it happens. Driving with no seat belt is same as dogs with no leash for my opinion? Joe I disagree with this analogy. If you don't wear a seat belt and you have a crash - you have a much higher chance of being killed. Crashes are unlikely and always going to be bad, but my sister wrote off a car and walked away practically unscathed because of a seatbelt. Seat belts don't prevent accidents, they reduce the damage caused by accidents. Dogs and leads? A lead will not save your dog from other off-lead dogs - especially if your dog is too large to pick up. If a dog attacks your dog whilst your dog is on a lead, it will not walk away unscathed. It will prevent your dog from attacking others if that's the issue? Unless you're saying that no-one should ever have their dogs off lead for any circumstances, but to me, that's the same as saying you should never go in a car... If you have learned to drive, or, trained your dog in good recall, well you have to balance risk control against enjoying your life. Fact is, most dogs don't want to fight. They don't want to get injured, they don't see dogs as prey and many really appear to enjoy meeting new and old canine friends. Avoid the dog park if you don't have a social dog. I don't know about everyone else, but I have a dog who has no interest in chasing balls and frankly I get bored of walking and bike riding every day. His favourite thing in the whole world is the dog park - you should see how he lights up when I tell him that's where we're going. So either go or don't, but you can't say that it's objectively the wrong or right thing for every dog.

Wow this sounds like a pretty terrible situation. I have seen the advertisements for these dogs, and seen pictures of the parents, and nothing about it looks very good. They claim that they are deliberately breeding this mix for loyalty and intelligence, but the fact is what they're creating imo is a dog that may or may not be intelligent, but that is definitely going to be dominant (as both sheperds and malamutes are) and may or may not be independent. Both breeds require a decent amount of training and socialisation - as they are both inclined towards aggression and distrust of strangers. Malamutes are not known for being a particularly tolerant breed, and have a tendency to hunt and kill smaller animals. They also roam if they can, and can easily climb or dig under most fences. They are intelligent, but don't feature often in obedience competitions because they can be obstinate and free-spirited. Shepherds can be very dangerous in the wrong hands, and will often happily assume 'top dog' if no-one else does. Both breeds are prone to similar problems in that as large breeds, they should have their hips and elbows tested etc - so there won't be any hybrid vigour. If you see the photos of the parents, the white shepherd is a mangy yellowish thing and the malamute I couldn't pick for a purebred. $700 seems really unreasonable price for unregistered animals without any health testing. To me it seems they were able to obtain these animals because they were pet quality and unfit for breeding. I think I should note at this point that I am an owner of one of these breeds and a lover of both.

I don't expect my dog to ignore it necessarily, but to be more reasonable about it. Fact is, this staffy from this account appears to have been virtually ready to kill another dog for bumping into it. The husky was not trying to fight back and just wanted to escape, and I would consider my dog to have some sort of issue if it was trying to kill an animal not out of a need to hunt or self-defense... (and even if this account is false or incorrect, I have personally met staffies/staffy crosses that acted in a similar fashion and seen them do serious damage.) Fact is you can typically go to the dog park without having to worry about your dog being killed. They may have little scuffs, but to want to seriously maim or kill another dog is truly unusual.

One of the reasons people will give you for desexing your dog is that it will make other dogs less likely to attack yours, and I believe this is probably true. There are desexed dogs who for some reason are desperate to attack entire dogs (typically their owners have no control over them whatsoever). So if you choose to own an entire dog, as I do, it is a little something extra you have to be prepared for. If you have good control of your own dog, and your dog trusts you entirely, the situation becomes immeasurably easier (though still not ideal by any stretch). This is because you can tell your dog to leave it, ignore it, and stay behind you so that you're free to address the other dog without having to worry about the signals your dog may be giving. Key also is being aware of other dogs, so that you have as much warning as possible. If I see that a dog is becoming more and more keen to try and dominate my dog, and is tracking him (searching groups of dogs at the dog park, following his trail), I call my dog to me immediately. The thing is, I have a very well-socialised dog. He will tolerate a high degree of rude behaviour (your dog needs to if you're going to take him to the dog park) and will ignore dogs trying to start something for quite a while, but if pressed or cornered, he won't back down so I need to intervene. I have successfully managed to 'claim' my dog if you like from dogs who wanted to attack him, even after they've tried to bite him, just by standing between my dog and the attacker and confronting them - telling them no, and to go away in a firm but not hysterical voice. Most dogs that are dog aggressive are fortunately not human aggressive, so if you can identify the signs before the attack, and you can be really assertive, you have a decent chance of preventing the whole thing. It was kind of sad, the owners of these dogs never listen and often completely ignore their dogs. There was a staffy cross at a park I used to visit in Sydney who tried to attack my dog twice (we started leaving the park when I saw him there after that). He wasn't human aggressive at all, and would completely back off when I challenged him, but he was trigger happy with other dogs (he was desexed early but hated entire males for some reason). Friends of mine who owned a lovely, totally non-aggressive entire male beagle who used to play with my entire male doberman very happily weren't so lucky. They thought their dog was going to die, and the owner had no idea what to do so he stuck his finger up the backside of the staffy cross and fortunately he released. The beagle couldn't stand up, let alone fight back and still has some terrible scars right across his front leg where the staffy grabbed and shook him. But once the dog is attacking - well everyone else has already given great advice about that. I just thought that perhaps it could be helpful to talk about preventative measures as well. I know people have disagreed with me on this before, but nothing scares me more than a staffy or bully type breed. They just do seem to be more reactive and less predictable, and then once a fight begins well you know who the winner will be

Amazing photos, thanks for posting

This. We just don't understand enough about genetics at this stage to take these chances and reduce the gene pool even further...

Sorry OT.....but this really broke my heart. What hope Is there when the law protects criminals, even though this one paid with his life but he also destroyed another family In the process Mine too Sounds like they were the perfect dogs - and who in their right mind jumps off the fence into a yard with 3 dobermans?? I would not want to come up against that person because they would have had to of been a complete lunatic and probably on drugs. Bit OT, but, what is the law in these instances? I ask because recently we have had people sneaking around our house at night - they seem to watch for when we take the dog out, and then they try and steal our gas hot water thing (3 times in 4 months - police have been useless and we joke that we need a 2nd dog that we don't love that we just leave at home to guard, since they seem to be so scared of them). Anyway, point is sometimes we hear noises, the dog barks and we take the dog with us to investigate. It's always dark and they always disappear (it's true we don't live in a great environment but this seems to be your lot if you want to rent with a dog...) I'm not sure what he'd do if he saw someone, but if there was someone there, and the dog attacked them, would our dog be in trouble?

I now do 15km bike rides with my dobe, but we worked up to that (more quickly than I had expected)only once he was over a year old. Prior to that, the only way I had of tiring him out was to take him to the dog park and organise play dates with his best friends. An hour or so of chasing and wrestling had him buggered. But people have given some good comments about the mental exhaustion aspect - even to date, my dog is more tired if we've asked a lot of him mentally, whether that's through making him behave very carefully around children for a couple of hours (guests over at the house etc), or done some more training than usual. I've unfortunately been sick lately, and wasn't up to my usual bike ride, so instead to drain his energy, we did 1/2 hour walk nicely on lead, 1/2 hour at the dog park and then learning a new trick. He learned to limp, touch his nose to my hand and whine on command (whereas previously he only knew bark), so it's been quite productive lol.