jacqui835

Shortest gap I've ever had was a year, and even then, I called my new dog the old name a couple of times - took a while to get to know him in his right but it's turned out better than I could have hoped for.

Same as me. I would not say that I love dogs, rather that I love dobermans and a few of the other working breeds. I would not want to own any of the others. I love other species of animal too though and always have. I've looked after rats, mice, birds, cats, dogs, tadpoles, rabbits, guinea pigs and horses. I would not want to own any wild animals though - their wildness and strength in their environment is what I admire and love.

Toilet paper rolls sans paper - he knows he can't have it until it has no paper left, and our toilet paper is within reach of him. He checks it regularly, and when it gets low the inspections become more thorough. As soon as it's finished, he claims it and has the time of his life for the next 5 mins (by which time unfortunately the roll has been destroyed). He also loves anything soft and squeaky, but these get obliterated He likes his Kong, but amazingly he has now managed to destroy this too. So we go through a lot of 'toys', but don't spend all that much.

This is interesting. My male doberman is an ok watch dog, to be honest, you can sometimes sneak in through the back gate and he doesn't even notice (we have a massive yard). That said, if he does notice something, he puts on a decent display. Rather than bark, he does more of a low growl and intent stare thing, then a couple of barks to call us (and if we don't come he comes and finds us in the house and leads us back to the 'problem'). But more than bark, he growls. When we lived with my sister and her two papillons, the female was a brilliant watch dog. She was always the first to notice anything, and barked the most. My dobe and the male papillon would come running to back her up, though when the dobe got there they kind of both stood back and let him handle it. Seems like what you need is a small female dog to be your watch dog, and a big male as the deterrent.

The lab is a wonderful dog. He's not desexed but plays beautifully with my dog (who also isn't desexed), is well trained and walks well on a lead. They are taking the puppy for walks each day with the other dog (and alone in the mornings now) and because it's cute and a puppy, lots of people are wanting to pat it. It just doesn't really respond to them, and sticks to the other dog like glue. I told them they need to spend more time alone with the pup, and they asked how they should do that - ie, what do they do with their other dog during this time? To get the puppy alone, should they be locking the other dog outside or something? Because if the lab is anywhere near the puppy, the pup will try as hard as possible to get to the lab. If they do lock the lab outside, well that doesn't seem fair to the lab? And also, the pup will undoubtedly carry on like a pork chop again trying to get to the lab.

8.5 weeks is not too young, especially for larger breeds. Almost everyone I know got their dogs at 8 weeks and they're all fine (mine included), I have never seen anything like this before. They wanted the dogs to be friends, but what they have is one dog who loves them and the puppy, and a puppy who loves the dog but is indifferent to humans, there's a HUGE difference. They were ignorant, but they're not selfish or bad people. They are not blaming the puppy, and they came to me asking for help. The reason they are looking at giving the puppy up is because it is growing into an impossible animal to own (imagine a dog that has no fear but no interest in humans), and they know they're at fault so they think they need to find it a new home - even if that new home is the pound. Thanks for the tips agilitydogs, I will try and find more information about that book.

Re-posted from puppy problem thread as I think they really need help. A colleague at work has just added a 2nd puppy to their family, a supposed belgian shepherd mix of all things. Anyway, they already had a labrador and the plan was for the puppy to keep the older dog company - whilst also being a new member of the family. Well the puppy absolutely adores the lab, but it doesn't really have any interest in the owners, like, runs right past them to greet the other dog, follows the other dog everywhere and only wants to interact with the other dog. I've seen it, and it's amazing, I have never seen a dog that has so little interest in people. You can't get it's attention with loud noises or anything, and if you have food, it obviously wants it but won't directly address the people - like it will just keep walking past. It waits until the lab has some, and then goes and tries to steal some from his mouth - which often means it doesn't get any treats. They have asked me to try and help, because now they are starting not to like the puppy - it just lives in their house without having anything to do with them. Their other dog loves them and is very well-trained, he is definitely more people oriented and whilst he obviously likes the puppy, the people come first for him and they were hoping the new puppy would be the same. But here's the thing. They both work full-time, and the lab is the one raising this puppy. I asked them how much time they spend alone with the puppy, and they said none. They said they were lucky if they spent more than 3 hours a day with both dogs during the week - but all day on the weekends. It's almost 12 weeks old now, and I said they need to start spending alone time with it and trying to build a relationship, and they have started taking the new puppy for a walk in the mornings alone but they are very time poor. Plus the puppy really cries if you separate it from the lab - like howls. It's not going well at all though, and they have started looking to rehome the pup. They have had people come to see the pup, but leave empty handed because although it's not scared or aggressive with people, you have to hold it still to be able to pat it, and it complains and whines the whole time until it can escape and run back to the other dog. So now they are talking about giving it up to the pound. This is obviously their fault, but I have no idea whether it's reversible, or what steps they should take to try and achieve this. Has anyone had any experience with this sort of thing? They got it when it was 8.5 weeks old, and it was more affectionate with them the day they met than it is now; it just doesn't want anything to do with humans. If you need anymore information let me know and I'll try and get it. They are trying the morning walk thing for a week or so before they make anymore decisions. PS Both dogs are walked together in the evenings.

South Australia

A colleague at work has just added a 2nd puppy to their family, a supposed belgian shepherd mix of all things. Anyway, they already had a labrador and the plan was for the puppy to keep the older dog company - whilst also being a new member of the family. Well the puppy absolutely adores the lab, but it doesn't really have any interest in the owners, like, runs right past them to greet the other dog, follows the other dog everywhere and only wants to interact with the other dog. I've seen it, and it's amazing, I have never seen a dog that has so little interest in people. You can't get it's attention with loud noises or anything, and if you have food, it obviously wants it but won't directly address the people - like it will just keep walking past. It waits until the lab has some, and then goes and tries to steal some from his mouth - which often means it doesn't get any treats. They have asked me to try and help, because now they are starting not to like the puppy - it just lives in their house without having anything to do with them. Their other dog loves them and is very well-trained, he is definitely more people oriented and whilst he obviously likes the puppy, the people come first for him and they were hoping the new puppy would be the same. But here's the thing. They both work full-time, and the lab is the one raising this puppy. I asked them how much time they spend alone with the puppy, and they said none. They said they were lucky if they spent more than 3 hours a day with both dogs during the week - but all day on the weekends. It's almost 12 weeks old now, and I said they need to start spending alone time with it and trying to build a relationship, and they have started taking the new puppy for a walk in the mornings alone but they are very time poor. Plus the puppy really cries if you separate it from the lab - like howls. It's not going well at all though, and they have started looking to rehome the pup. They have had people come to see the pup, but leave empty handed because although it's not scared or aggressive with people, you have to hold it still to be able to pat it, and it complains and whines the whole time until it can escape and run back to the other dog. So now they are talking about giving it up to the pound. This is obviously their fault, but I have no idea whether it's reversible, or what steps they should take to try and achieve this. Has anyone had any experience with this sort of thing? They got it when it was 8.5 weeks old, and it was more affectionate with them the day they met than it is now; it just doesn't want anything to do with humans. If you need anymore information let me know and I'll try and get it. They are trying the morning walk thing for a week or so before they make anymore decisions. PS Both dogs are walked together in the evenings.

I came home to a very excited doberman myself one day, but made the mistake of leaning down and trying to hug him. Well his head suddenly shot up and whacked my own, and I felt like I nearly lost a tooth. That same tooth went half way through my lip - which is not an attractive injury to say the least. I have a black bruise on my toe nail from where he stepped on me. Once when we were swimming together his paw came down hard in a stroke across the back of my leg, and I had a massive bruise that took literally weeks to heal. So, moral of the story is, dobermans are made out of rock and can hurt you very badly without meaning to...

Does anyone know where I can buy the nina ottoson toys? She has a couple of toys that look like they might be suitable for big dogs - unfortunately I think any toy with small parts will just be eaten - I have smart dogs but they're also very powerful dogs and if they can just physically tear it apart - well that's always going to be option A... http://www.wagsalot.com.au/nina-ottosson.html Thanks

Well you've inspired me to go and find out what all the fuss is about. I've never had a leather leash...

Oh gosh she's just a weirdo. Plenty of them out there. I am actually glad to see that even when handled well (ie by yourself), those people are still tards. I tend to become a little more irate and tell them to mind their own business (and in your case, I would have told them to work on controlling their own dogs) and of course it never ends well. I had a lady at Centennial Park have a go at me once for having an entire dog - it was the most ridiculous thing ever but supposedly my dog was causing 2 other desexed males to fight and try and dominate each other. I told her I was happy with my dog and didn't agree with her take on the situation (given that my dog was at this stage, lying in the shade under a tree). She said she hoped I was really happy with my dog, because he would be the only one who wanted to be around me. Well, I was actually so shocked I couldn't speak, but fortunately I spent so much time at Centennial Park back in the day that I knew everyone else, and one of the guys addressed her for me. She left with her two poor starving vizlas (and I'm not someone who believes fat dogs are healthy dogs, these things were just ugly skinny - bones everywhere and no energy) and we never saw her again. You're a fantastic and very responsible dog owner - and my dog loved Mindy (he's a good judge lol); if all dog owners were like you, there wouldn't be any problems at all. But you're right, some people are just looking for a fight.

Our obedience club promotes the use of check chains - but they check the fitting before each class. If used correctly, they are much more humane and effective than a halti or gentle leader type device. But that said, I use one on my adult dobe, our puppy is on a flat collar until she's old enough to make the connection. With a check chain - it's the noise and the tightening that work in conjunction to help the dog self-correct. In the beginning, if your puppy is anything like what my two have been like, it will be a bit scared on walks, and won't be doing the sort of pulling a check chain hopes to address (ie pulling to try and get to something they want). You just want to be boosting confidence and building a relationship to start.

Does anyone know where I can buy the nina ottoson toys? She has a couple of toys that look like they might be suitable for big dogs - unfortunately I think any toy with small parts will just be eaten - I have smart dogs but they're also very powerful dogs and if they can just physically tear it apart - well that's always going to be option A...

Although PF and I disagree on aspects of socialisation, it is at least on my part very respectfully. In my mind, I try to be realistic about what my dogs are likely to encounter in their lives and socialise my dogs to those things, places, and situations. I live in suburbia. There are a limited number of places I can take my dogs for an off leash run. Sooner or later they are going to have to get used to dog park/dog beach madness, dogs that don't know how to talk dog, and dogs that have no idea how to behave. It would be lovely if I could choose to only expose my dogs to other dogs that are polite, considerate, predictable members of the canine population, but it just doesn't work like that. But that doesn't mean I have to avoid all the places I'd like to go with my dogs. My dogs learnt how to deal with the playground bullies, social retards, and all the rest along with the model canine citizens. I consider it an important part of their socialisation because if I want to take them to the river or the beach and have fun with them outside the yard, they WILL meet these types so I may as well make sure they'll be as comfortable as possible with them. I have to say it makes my heart swell with pride when they deftly turn a bully aside, gently coax a timid dog to play, avoid a dog that starts fights, and defuse tense situations with an easy "I'm no threat" signal. They are nearly always comfortable and confident no matter what is going on around them. I can take them anywhere and even if it's packed with dogs they are completely fine. Having said that, it didn't just happen. I took a lot of care to gently introduce them as puppies and have always closely monitored their behaviour so I could move them before they got overly anxious or otherwise distressed. I do a lot of training with them when they are off leash in dog parks, and they didn't earn the right to make their own decisions about dogs until they got better than me at reading them. I ever so carefully let them make mistakes when I believed they were safe mistakes and guided them towards better decisions and rewarded them whenever they chose non-aggressive coping strategies. Well, I did with Erik. Kivi hasn't realised there are aggressive coping strategies yet. I listened to them and never forced them into interactions and got them out when they were saying they wanted to quit but the other dog wasn't paying attention. I see puppies in dog parks and routinely cringe about it because they are kind of tossed in on a Saturday afternoon and the owners are so dismayed that the puppy is screaming and trying to run away that they never go back again. I figure, if you want to use dog parks, there's no real reason why you shouldn't, but there are some good rules of thumb to follow. I don't want to hijack PF's thread, and she'll probably disagree with some of my rules! Suffice to say dog parks are dynamic places and every situation is different. If you are not confident reading the situations you will probably not enjoy being there. I'm in exactly the same situation - ie living in suburbia and wanting to take my dog everywhere with me, and I have done the same things as Corvus and had very good results. My dog is quite large, and so once he reached about 7-8 months, he lost all fear of other dogs and was quite happy to take them on if they tried to start something. We had to work quite hard to make him realise that we would never tolerate that, and that we (humans) had the power to intervene and control the situation. It was hard work though, and sometimes scary, because his main rival (at the time) was a slightly older GSD. Fortunately though, the GSD understood the word no and had no HA. If this particular dog saw him, it would charge from the other side of the park right at him, so we had to be very vigilant. We visit dog parks at least once a week now, and it's true, especially when you own an entire male you will often find a dog who takes offense to his presence - whose owner naturally is nowhere to be found - or thinks their dog is just trying to play... My dog will just ignore them, without letting them dominate him or anything - he just goes about his business, ignoring them and sometimes even playing with a different dog, but when he senses that they're likely to take action, hackles have gone up, stare is too direct etc, he comes and stands at my side and I know this is my cue from him to intervene. I think his arrogance sometimes annoys the other dog even more, because it's not like he comes over and hides behind me. Tail and head are right up, he almost acts like he's bored by the other dog, and so sometimes other owners get annoyed when I tell their dogs to bugger off, because they don't realise that this is my dog saying I don't want to fight this dog but this dog dislikes me and is about to attack me. This was a hard and perhaps more risky approach than what some people here might have been comfortable with, but the result has been that we now have a bomb proof dog. I can imagine for people with smaller dogs, where one bite could be all it took, this would not be a viable option.

Mine are about 14 months apart, and it is working well. They are both large - GSD and doberman (though the GSD is still only 11kg), but the dobe was quite well-trained. It has been great in that she copies him and thinks the sun shines out of his backside - he taught her to sit on command (and she can now do it without him around), wait for her food and she helps to tire him out (we made sure we got a feisty one that was a good personality match). We have had no issues at all to date. She has some issues with trying to take his food away - he shows some lip and she ignores the warnings so we have to intervene there (he doesn't do anything now, but we want to set up the mentality that the humans own all food and decide who gets it - to make things safer when they're older), but really he lets her do what she wants (which is very different from his attitude to dogs at the park). She would play with him all night if she could, but she doesn't have those sorts of priveledges. She sleeps in the laundry at night alone now - but slept her first few nights next to my bed to give her some time to boost her confidence. They are loud when they play though - they make the funniest noises, I'm going to make a youtube video lol It's particularly challenging when you're on the phone, we can tell the dobe to be quiet and he immediately sits up and is good.. for about 30 secs before she launches herself at him and it's all on again. We waited until the dobe completed advanced level obedience - it was more about that and also finding the right 2nd dog than the specific age gap. We wanted them to be relatively similar in age so that they would have similar energy/exercise requirements - and could help to tire each other out!

That doesn't seem fair - I have never met a vet that wanted to see more sick animals... it's just not why they become vets in the first place. The issue is that vet science is an extremely expensive course to run - think about it, and the unis need all the help they can get with the funding. So when the crappy dog food companies and whoever else come along and agree to help sponsor - well they have to accept all the help they can get. As a result, the students are not as well-informed as you'd hope, but that doesn't mean that they don't have the animal's' best interests at heart. Source: went to Sydney uni and had friends who are now vets.

There are certainly advantages to the concept of inbreeding - I look at my doberman and then I look at the other dogs in the park and I know who I want to take home... But that said, it poses a lot of risks (there's no denying that without investing a lot of money and time, inbreeding can be very detrimental to the dogs involved). If people are not running every test, if they don't know the condition of the lines they're using, well very quickly you end up with very sick dogs because they are too closely related and bad recessive genes have a high chance of being expressed. Additionally, inbreeding is associated with its own intrinsic negatives - for example, reduced fertility, reduced lifespan etc. They believe this is because your immune system does best when paired with a complimentary partner - not one the same as your own (such as would be found in a close relative). Reduced immune function means more shoddy repairs and problems in the first place - all which take their toll. "In fishes for example, inbred salmonids showed a higher rate of body deformations, a reduced fry survivorship and a reduced growth rate while inbred guppies (Poecilia reticulata) displayed an altered reproductive behaviour (Waldman & McKinnon 1993 and citations therein).Inbred eggs have a lower fertilization and hatching rate compared to outbred fishes, and fewer survive to reproductive age." And for the person that claimed lab mice are healthy - that's completely misinformed. As a psychology and biology student, I have worked with both rats and mice under lab conditions. I also bred rats when I was younger - relevant for comparison. Lab animals do not have long lifespans relative to their wild cousins, but this is deemed to be ok as most of the experiments (certainly in the field of psychology) can only be conducted in the first 6-8 months of the animal's' life anyway. The animals are then used in dissections in biology. The animals are kept in bubble environments, protected from all parthogens and even from fresh air. So it's true, they are typically free of the bacterial infections that plague our pet rodents, but not by their immune systems, rather by barriers. In the rodent breeding community, it is not uncommon for someone to have to introduce a wild rat into their lines to boost the vigour - especially when attempting to cement new variations (through inbreeding). People who did this had amazing success - rats living for 5 years + and exhibiting strong resistance to respiratory infections (which every pet rat has). For your reference: Lab mice, for example, are notoriously inbred brother to sister, and they have been shown to suffer from reduced fertility, life expectancy and vitality and weakened immune systems. It is theorized that a lot of these inbred mice are only biologically viable in laboratories where they are given ample food and sheltered from predators and that they would not be successful in the wild. So in short, I am not inherently against inbreeding, because it does allow for us to strengthen specific traits and better predict the results of breeding, but I do believe that, as some others have said, it needs to be subject to very strict regulations, lots of testing and emphasis placed on maintaining the broadest and deep gene pool possible.

Oh gosh yes... My sister has 2 papillons and didn't really train either. Additionally, they used to be entire, and the male was an escape artist (since being desexed he doesn't even want to go for walks anymore). My boy (a doberman) is also entire, but we can leave the gate open and he doesn't go anywhere (not that we do but you get the point). Anyway, they had fortified their backyard so that the pap could no longer escape, and he had stopped trying. Fast forward a couple of months, I had to stay with them for a couple of weeks and of course brought the dobe with me. The pap took one look at the dobe, and had an idea. He called the dobe over to the front gate where all the chicken wire was, and started pulling at it for the first time in months. Now of course, the pap's' attempts were futile, but my dog quickly joined in. He had that chicken wire off in about 2 pulls and made short work of the other obstacles. Within about a min, he had actually pulled the gate open under the pap's' instructions, and the paps were off. We were all amazed. The dobe isn't dumb, but the pap was brilliant. My weeks living with them proved very interesting, the pap's brains with the strength of the dobe proved a highly effective combination.

My boy was like that as a puppy. Now he's an adult, and although we can now leave him home alone with no problems, he is still with me when he can be/preferably on me (which is cute when it's a toy poodle, but slightly awkward when it's a doberman...) He is my dog, always has been and I imagine he always will be. Other people can ask him to do things, and if they have food, he might do it, but it's all so transactional. He looks to me and follows me without hesitation. I love him to bits and have gone through a fair bit to keep him - including putting my arm between him and a bully breed who nearly took his eye out (probably stupid but I acted without thinking and fortunately all I have to show for it today are some torn clothes). I love our relationship and wouldn't give it up for anything. But I would say one thing. Make sure you are the human, and he is the dog because it can be easy when you're so close to forget. I have my dog on the bed several times a week, but it's by invitation only. I make sure he has the best food and toys but I don't spoil him. If I give a command, I always follow through. We're bonded, and we're partners, but I am the leader - and dogs like it that way. Additionally, it means I can spend more time with him. People love well-behaved, polite dogs so you can take them more places. Enjoy your puppy, there are many threads on these forums about people that struggle to bond with their dogs and we are so lucky not to fall into that category.

Why would it fail? The hypothetical test is to determine whether the aggression is 'provoked' or not. It is not a test of what a dog would do if its owner was assaulted. It is a test to see what a dog will do when approached in a way that does not pose any (actual) threat to dog or owner. There are dogs out there in our community now being used for breeding that would fail a test like this. The owners see the trait as desirable, and in my opinion are are totally misinterpreting standards. I also think it's a mistake to think that we should alter a breed in Australia and that it can still be the same breed. Our dogs in the country are mostly a small part of a huge gene pool, and it's not up to us to try to make breeds 'softer' than they should be. But there is clearly no need in Australia for dogs like Filas. And what some GSD breeders are supposedly breeding for in SA in my opinion is a hugely dangerous and harmful misinterpretation of the standard. But what is considered provocative? If a person is trespassing on your property without your knowledge and your dog attacks them (even though you have signs up to warn them), is this a bad trait for a dog to have? Frankly I sleep better at night knowing that my dog wouldn't be hiding under the bed if we were robbed/attacked. I agree with you though in the sense that I don't think you should have to worry about random dogs on the street attacking you or your dog. Owners need to teach their dog what's normal, and I see far too many dobermans that can't even be walked down the street because their owners tried to 'teach' them to be 'protective'.

How does a guard dog guard if no humans are around to 'command' it?? The answer is simple - by instinct. That will involve a genetic predisposition to be DA or HA in most cases. I don't have an issue with dogs that are prepared to be DA or HA as part of their 'jobs' if the job is lawful. What I do have an issue with is people who get such dogs and fail to ensure that they don't become a danger to the community through poor management. Lets not blame such dogs for the fact that their owners are irresponsible, ignorant or criminal. Let me tell you, if I lived in some of the world's most dangerous places, I'd own a Fila in a heartbeat. South Africa would be a case in point. If I lived in Johannesburg I'd probably have several. I'd want people to think twice about the dogs before entering my home and I'd be happy for the dog to step up to protect house or family. Such dogs are only an issue when they're placed in the wrong home. This exactly. I own a doberman and I love that he's instinctually protective. I go bike riding relatively late at night even though I probably shouldn't (but what else can you do when you have an energetic dog and work full time??) Point is though, some people may have seen an old thread about mine when 2 men stood in front of me blocking the bike track, my dog growled at them and they jumped away - we rode home safely. Had he been a small dog, or a large dog who hid behind me, well who knows what would have happened? Just a month later there was a murder in the area :s I didn't teach him to be protective, I taught him what was normal and what's not so he only feels the need to protect me in actual dangerous situations - which fortunately are extremely rare.

I feel sorry for whoever ends up owning that dog, because people are going to harass them something chronic - no-one will believe that it was natural

I had a new puppy, and was deeply worried about what I'd gotten myself into. Of course I couldn't reveal this to anyone I actually knew, after campaigning for said puppy for years, so I turned to dogzonline. My dog is my passion and there's a lot of people here with a lot of good information that have helped both my dog and I to get the most out of our relationship.