jacqui835

Hey guys, some fantastic articles here and I've finally had a chance to go through most of them. That said, I was thinking would it be possible to have subheadings to group the articles and make the information more accessible to people interested in specific topics? For example, some subheadings I thought might be useful could be: vaccination, desexing, dog behaviour, dog intelligence, effects of dog ownership etc.

I would say there's nothing really wrong with that, but it does make me wonder what attracted you to to the Gsd in the first place. If you want a large, loyal and intelligent dog but you're not so keen on a working dog well there are other breeds... Please don't think I'm trying to say I don't think you should have a Gsd or anything like that, it's just everything about the breeding program is supposed to support their working function.

I thought he was so handsome I went through the whole site you linked - and to me he has a very similar build to "Hotshot" when he was young. Again, I know nothing about staffies, but in the case of my pooch (a doberman), he is only just starting to bulk up now (at like 18 months) having finally (I think) stopped growing upwards...

Wow sorry I know nothing about staffies but just wanted to tell you that I think you have a beautiful dog. I'm not usually a fan of the breed, but that might be different if they all looked like that...

I don't know if it's the same with cats, but very recently I took a young kitten to the vet to try and have him desexed at 3 months old. Many of you will know that I don't believe desexing is always necessary for dogs if you can train and contain your dog - and if it works in other countries (the Netherlands etc) then why should it be different here? Preventing irresponsible people from breeding dogs though is a completely separate issue - though I would still argue that you would struggle to justify the necessity to desex puppies so young. Anyway, with cats, because they're more independent and self-serving, I like to have them desexed as young as possible so they want to wander less and fight less with other cats. My vet however told me he would no longer be performing the procedure before 6 months. He had performed 1000's of procedures on cats and dogs for the RSPCA, registered breeders trying to protect their lines and welfare centres at around 8 weeks, but had then seen 100's of these dogs and cats go on to have associated issues as their organs did not develop properly (and he worried because he said he knew not everyone would care and bring their pet in for follow-up treatment, so the incidence was likely far higher). Females becoming incontinent and needing to go on HRT for the rest of their lives (or have surgery) and males having urethras so small their incidence of urinary tract issues were ridiculous compared to the general population (and also requiring life saving operations). He said he knew other vets would agree to desex young animals, but he had seen enough. The cat will have to wait until 6 months. Of course as breeders you may breed twice a year and never have had any known issues (or anything to compare it to for that matter), but in a large sample size of 1000's, if this was the observed outcome then I could never justify taking that risk with my pet. People on these forums always argue that pet owners are entitled to dogs that are as healthy as possible - hence why the breeders who focus on anything other than health are labelled unethical (see blue staffy thread active right now for an example). Well why would you deliberately subject a dog or cat to a procedure that is undeniably physically detrimental and deny a pet owner the right to the healthiest puppy possible? You do what you can to source appropriate homes, but one day they will be able to reproduce your dog with or without it's reproductive system intact (in fact if they were desperate enough today, they could, but it will only become increasingly cheap and accessible), so in the long-term you will need new strategies anyway.

Interesting. Plenty of the guardian breeds are also aloof, but they are also bold. I do not know many greyhounds, but I do know a lot of whippets and I have never met one that didn't seem slightly 'uncomfortable' and look a bit concerned. The owners often say that they only like other whippets. Borzoi and salukis seem reserved and aloof, but not timid. I always thought (in the case of the whippets) that it was because they shared the same concern as the owners - if another dog should bash into them or step on them, well they look like they might snap. That's not to say that I don't think they're a rough and tough dog - if I was a rabbit there's no breed I'd fear more. But I think they're just quite aware of the weight difference between themselves and other, larger dogs.

Yes but sometimes it works in my favour. When we were driving from Sydney to Adelaide, I called a motel and asked if we could stay with our dog. On the phone, the guy obviously assumed from my voice that I owned some sort of pomeranian type pooch... Well we arrived quite late, but the next morning when he saw our doberman he was taken aback - he said, "I thought you said you had a puppy!" Of course Sammy was only 10 months old so really he was a puppy... no lies there. Then he just remarked, "that's a whole lot of dog." People have asked us who chose the doberman breed, like they expect for it to be Dan but for some reason suspect it was me...

Not offended, upset if I was wearing nice clothes... Let me reiterate. Do I feel sorry for the guy who got peed on, does anybody - no. Do I think it's acceptable that my dog thinks he can pee on people I don't like - also, no. Did I treat him like a hero- no, did other people pat him on the back - yes but by the time they did it he would not have known why... Will I be leaving my dog unsupervised with anyone anymore - no, he will learn that I find that unacceptable, though if the past is anything to go by he won't try it in my presence.

I am not opposed to neutering in general - I recommend that most people desex their dogs and have convinced plenty to do so and it has been the right decision for them. That said, I have known a few dogs well that experienced strong changes to their personality post-neutering - and they're not changes I would find desirable. He performs well at training, doesn't try to run away, doesn't have any DA or HA and so I'm not sure that neutering is required. He does not mark anything we don't want him to, not at all whilst on-lead with the obvious exception of peeing 3 times on men that I have had issues with. I think the problem here is likely a combination of me, lack of supervision and absence of undesirable consequences, not his balls. You having "issues" with the men who were peed on does NOT make it ok... This thread is sigh where did I ever say that it was ok? I just said that's why it has happened to date "a combination of me, lack of supervision and absence of undesirable consequences", not that I was going to encourage or even allow it to happen in the future...

I am not opposed to neutering in general - I recommend that most people desex their dogs and have convinced plenty to do so and it has been the right decision for them. That said, I have known a few dogs well that experienced strong changes to their personality post-neutering - and they're not changes I would find desirable. He performs well at training, doesn't try to run away, doesn't have any DA or HA and so I'm not sure that neutering is required. He does not mark anything we don't want him to, not at all whilst on-lead with the obvious exception of peeing 3 times on men that I have had issues with. I think the problem here is likely a combination of me, lack of supervision and absence of undesirable consequences, not his balls.

Absent yourself. Its not fair on Dan or the dog to have you present if Dan is meant to be the one training. Loosen the reins and let your OH and the dog develop their own relationship. Leave the house, the area or whatever but don't be where the dog knows you're around. I don't allow this if I take a training class. The trainer HAS to be the focus of the dog's attention, not other family members hanging around distracting the dog. I'm getting that you kind of enjoy that the dog blows off Dan to focus on you. Picture yourself away from home for two weeks and you'll start to see that Dan also has to have an effective relationship with the dog. I'd also have Dan take over all feeding duties and half the walking (without you) He does all of this (feeds and exercises the dog), and unfortunately my work requires that I travel regularly interstate often for up to a week or more at a time - leaving Dan to mind the dog. Sammy loves Dan (and Dan Sammy), and I love seeing them together - they play differently from how Sammy and I can play and get to wrestle and chase each other around. But if Dan says to Sammy at any moment, hey you're getting too rough, stop, lie down or whatever, he always obeys. But ok for an example. If I take Sammy for a bike ride through the park (an off-lead area), I can have him off-lead and he stays at my side no problems. Dan can't have him off-lead without me, he disappears, won't come back etc. Sammy is no retriever but if I command for him to return something, he will. If Dan throws something, he can only make Sammy drop and leave it, not retrieve it. I was always the one to feed my old dog and the one who walked him and yet he had eyes only for my dad (who he never saw). I didn't set out to create a dog that was so strongly bonded to me.

Susan Garrett would call this a classic case of the "don't wanna don't hafta" on the part of the dog, and she'd "work through it" ie stop the dog from finding his own fun (you) until he'd done what Dan wanted. Ie remove all re-inforcement. So you and Dan would need to work together until the dog understands that he's required to do what Dan asks. It would be important that you were no fun at all if the dog leaves work with Dan to be with you. A dog can be trained out of it. And you could be the reward, ie he works with Dan, he gets to play with you for a bit, the he works with Dan again etc. ie "Premack" time with you, make it conditional on working with Dan. As for having nasty people over when you don't want them, this can be a down side of being in a club and hosting social events, and something you might want to discuss with your club president. It is not ok for club members to come around and be disrespectful of you and your place and your dog, so I would think it fine to exclude particular members on this basis. Or you can have social events with invited club members - ie stop inviting everyone and just invite the specific people whose company you enjoy. It won't be a club event and you can ask people you didn't invite to leave. I belong to several clubs that have social functions - and sometimes people are invited individually when certain members make the event no fun. And sometimes respected club members have a quiet word in the ear of the misbehaving member and send them home or tell them not to show up. Club members can be expelled from the club if they are consistently bringing the club into disrepute or generally being so obnoxious nobody wants them there. Keeping people like that in a club can find the club reduced to a membership of 1 person. It's not that sort of club unfortunately, and we already have a lot of problems with intra-group disputes. Just trust me when I tell you that if we could get rid of him, we would. I will keep Sammy with me at all times from now on when we have people over - I have never had any sort of issue when I've been in the same room as him, and if it did, at least I could react and provide him with a less desirable consequence. Thank you for the advice re Dan - we will start trying to do this. If you saw it though - there are times when Dan (or whoever) is holding the food, issuing the command, and Sammy is just staring right at me, doesn't break eye contact. And I do reward him when he obeys Dan - once an order is given by either Dan or myself I expect it to be followed through. But like say we get home from work and Dan lets Sammy inside, he just runs straight past him and looks for me. He's been like this since he was a baby - I guess we bonded at about 3-4 months? and every trainer has just said it's a doberman thing - that they typically only work for one person so I thought nothing of it really until now. Don't get me wrong, he loves Dan and they have their beautiful moments, but what Dan always says is that he feels loved by Sammy but that Sammy is my dog. Anyone who was at lure coursing the other day would have seen that Dan tried to catch Sammy at the end of the track, but Sammy always ran back to me (even when he couldn't see or hear me - he just goes back to where he last saw me).

Does the full article provide any hypothesis as to the free-loaders? Surely there must be some overall advantage to the pack (maybe they perform other functions - good nannies or defenders etc) or maybe they need a larger pack to maintain their elk-rich territories from other wolves? Interesting though, thanks for sharing

And something that we would not have been able to survive without. Wariness is also different from dislike. I don't dislike bully breeds, I am just wary because I know what they can do, how fast they can move and how damn difficult they are to get off your dog once they latch on. I also know if you manage to separate the 2 dogs, the bully breed will likely be desperately trying to continue what it started, even if the other dog is so obviously keen to walk away. So yeah if I see one off-lead that I have never met before, well it just doesn't seem worth the risk of treating it the same as a little poodle cross cavalier. But I love watching them on youtube performing in different dog sports, and at my local pet supplies store one of the girls owns an adorable pitty/mastiff cross - he is one of my favourite dogs and I would never ever support BSL. I would be very supportive though of regulating who could own these dogs.

Maybe I don't appreciate what it's like to have a dog very sensitive to me because I don't have one, but I do have a dog that is really sensitive to signals. Erik knows if another dog is even thinking about doing something exciting. He is unbelievably tuned in. If we want to change his behavioural response to a signal, we train an alternative behaviour. For example, he sees someone out running and he barks at them, so we have been training him that when he sees someone out running, he should look, but not bark and he will be rewarded. I don't see why how you feel should be the thing that determines how he behaves. Generally, the consequence drives behaviour, not the signal that prompts it. Don't feel like you can't do anything because your feelings are determining his behaviour. That's not necessarily the case and besides which, you actually can change how he responds to your signals. Obviously rousing on him isn't a consequence he particularly cares about in this instance. I'm sure it's the consequence. Sammy is opportunistic and will try things on for size - because he is confident and intelligent. When he does something bad and gets told off properly, he doesn't reoffend. However, if I don't mean it, he seems to be able to tell and of course if I don't catch him in the act well it's very hard to tell him off properly. Maybe it makes me a messed up, bad person that I am not as concerned by my dog peeing on mean people and their belongings - it's not like they treated mine with any respect, but of course I don't find it acceptable (same as I wouldn't let anyone punch the guy - and there's a few who want to) and I will be doing my best to prevent those situations from arising - as obviously my dog is stressed out by their presence as well and feels the need to try and reclaim his territory or something. Probably because I'm his leader, and I'm normally very confident and protect him from dangerous situations (have sent aggressive dogs packing etc) so he gets worried when he thinks I suddenly can't handle the situation. In regards to the people he follows - they think the problem is that Sammy likes them too much, and that in fact that they are very attractive to dogs because in one case, the guy reckons dogs always want to hump him (fortunately Sammy has never tried to hump anyone). I will give up trying to educate them - I don't want my dog to be uncomfortable or confused, and I will instead just supervise their interactions. I will tell them to stop feeding him though - I'm tell them he's on a special diet or something. Sammy is a very sensitive dog - one word from me is enough to get his ears and tail down and even if they're calling him and holding the food I can easily get him to return to me if I make sure I'm always supervising. Sammy is a dog, I know he's a dog and I certainly don't treat him like a person. That said, he is a smart dog, he is a fast learner and he is sensitive so (unfortunately and fortunately depending on the situation) I don't have to be deliberately trying to teach him something for him to learn new behaviours...

Only one 'breed group' and only if I have my dog with me. I absolutely love bully breeds if it's just me - I think they're one of the most loving and safe breeds with humans, but if I have my dog I'm a bit scared. He has been attacked 3 times by members of this group, and they were serious attacks. He nearly lost an eye in one case, and the vet explained to me that if he hadn't been a long-snouted breed, his eye would not have been able to retract into his skull and well that would have been it. Yes he has also been attacked and/or humped by countless small fluffy dogs, and even been scratched by their teeth, but I'm still not scared of them because they don't have the power to do any real damage to a doberman (I know there's that one case of a toy breed killing a doberman but it seems unlikely). I think all terriers are a little more highly strung, just the bully breeds have power to go with it.

Well duhh, when your entertaining stop inviting people you don't like, why do you invite people that nobody likes? The not so nice person is a member of club/association that we are - the invitation is extended to the group and unfortunately this one guy is one who always accepts (strangely enough he's always free). He has been very cruel to my partner (and several other people) and the worst part is he doesn't even get it. In the case of the other one, well I now live in a different state so not so much of an issue. The others are just people who are scared of all dogs (and in one case, animals and insects in general), and won't listen to our advice about just standing still and not talking in a silly voice to the dog. I would like to do more training with Sammy so he somehow learns not to follow people - they're scared but they say his name (or call him doggy) and hold food in front of him and talk in a little kiddy voice - normally that's a good sign for him. If you meet him, you would see that he's the sort of dog that if you say, go away, he does. This is a dog who knows the meaning of no - and that's a command he'll obey from anyone (he just doesn't always come to everyone). He will not be left alone with these people anymore - he tends to want to seek them out because they always feed him.

Very true and I try very hard not to think bad thoughts about this person but he hates both my mum's children and his own and when he says something it hurts and obviously Sammy picks up on this. He moved into our home and then kicked us out, but whether he deserves it or not doesn't make it acceptable and because He has the power to hurt me I will just keep Sammy away. Sammy doesn't chase people by the way, it's just they are talking to him whilst holding food in a happy voice so he follows. I will keep him with me from now on. We entertain a lot so we often have guests over so it's something I need to get on top of.

It wasn't done on purpose and certainly doesn't make me feel terrific. When you really love someone or something well you derive more pleasure from seeing them happy than you do from how much they love you. All of his family are the same, the breeder warned me that they had struggled to rehome her dogs in the past. Anyway thank you to everyone who responded but now this seems to have become about me rather than the dog - and of course I create the dog so it's an understandable transition but I'm not comfortable talking about my personal life with people on the Internet. I don't think my dog is potentially dangerous, he's been described as bomb proof by all his vets and trainers and I certainly don't think he's nervous. He likes to play and needs to know what's acceptable and what's not - he pees on those few people I think because I don't accept them in the house. And it will have to be a group therapy session - everyone thought the guy deserved it.

I'm not arguing with everyone just this is like medical diagnosis - there's little point in me accepting everything when they haven't met or even seen the dog. Besides, I agreed with what was said anyway. I have trained my dog to be naughty with people I don't like and people have gone so far as to reward him for peeing on the meanies. I guess I was just curious as to how he learned to tell a mean person from a nice one - but you guys explained that he's reading me like a book. I like the idea of having a mat for him in the kitchen. And I'm confident that if I keep him away from these mean people there won't be any further issues. I'm not sure that it's a huge problem that he doesn't listen to everyone like he does to me - he's been in training clubs his whole life in Sydney and Adelaide and everyone always just he's a mummy's boy and 1 person dog. Dobermans are allowed to be aloof with strangers, as long as he's not aggressive it's ok I think. Dan does train him but he's not interested. He won't work for food and if he hasnt seen me in a while he will just go looking for me.

That's probably exactly right - he knows they don't live with us and he gets away with peeing on the people I don't like. He's sneaky about it, so he knows it's not ideal - it's not like he will do it with me watching. But if I'm not there, well I guess he knows there's nothing to lose really and everything to gain - peeing on people must be very satisfying for dogs. I always just thought it was weird that he doesn't pee on randoms when he has so many opportunities - people I have never met nor introduced him to, liked or disliked etc. It's just the ones who are nasty. I like my dog being confident too, but I tell him off for this behaviour. The thing is, there is no problem if the people don't make silly noises and back away from the dog continually - I think he half thinks they want to play. If I back away from Sammy and haven't told him not to, he will come closer - it's how we taught him come! If someone is not enjoying my dog, whether I think he's great or not I don't think it's fair to impose on them. But I am also reluctant to isolate him from everyone for the whole day so it's one that I will have to monitor carefully. I think moving forward he will just be on lead unless I'm in the room with everyone (I tend to get stuck in the kitchen).

My OH can control the dog to an extent. If he wants the spot on the couch, he can kick him off with words alone, the dog moves out of his way etc, doesn't try to block him or anything like that. If OH walks towards dog, dog backs off, if OH is threatening or angry about it, dog will even roll over on occasion - if cornered and he can't run away. If he can though, he will try to make a run for it and run for me. I have never not supported his commands - what more can I do? If I am there, the dog will look at me when issued a command by someone else to see what I think of it - what can I do about that? If Dan says sit and Sammy looks at me I say yes sit and he sits. Maybe we need to go to a new training club because the trainers we see just say that Sammy is a typical working doberman, he works for one person. My partner says I'm our pack leader - the dog is still at the bottom, below us, below the cat, but my partner who is a lawyer says Sammy likes to try for appeals to the higher courts... However, say the dog is off-lead at the park. If OH calls, there is a 50/50 chance he will return. If I call my dog, he comes, he sprints to me. If OH asks dog to get in the bath, he runs and hides. If I ask, dog puts tail between his legs, head hangs low, gets in bath. I think I'm quite dominant over Sammy, I can get him to spit out a kangaroo steak mid chew (his favourite food) and no matter what the command, if I want it obeyed, I can get it. I think the problem is simply if I don't care I can't fake it with the dog, and it's not my words, it's the feeling behind my words. I don't hit him or anything, all we do is say you are a naughty boy (it makes him look very sad and crouch or roll over) and if he's been absolutely appalling - ie moved a gardening glove or something he shouldn't have touched well he gets isolation for like 1 minute (that's the only thing that makes him upset). eta - he has never peed on me, damaged anything of mine (except one box when we first brought him home and one thong (the shoe lol) on the first day I had to leave him at home for work). He also can not ask for attention. If we think he wants attention, we call him to us, make him sit or do some sort of trick and then he gets his love and affection - he has been on NILIF since day 1 (no kidding, he sat for a piece of chicken the day we picked him up).

I agree with everything that has been said - except for perhaps about my dog being dangerous. I know people always say that about their own dogs, but truly, this is a dog that catches rabbits and doesn't know what to do with them, has had small children jump on his back (no I wasn't happy about it) and turned around to lick their faces but that said he has scratched people with his claws - one guy asked him to jump up on him at the beach (had never met him before), Sammy of course obliged and the guy got scratched - then he asked him to do it again... He's not neutered and won't be getting neutered or bred from - he has perfect recall even around bitches on heat and doesn't have any DA or HA. I don't feel there are any health benefits and I love his drive. Any dog can be dangerous but ask anyone here who has met him if they could see him turning on someone - deliberately intending to inflict harm. Now of course they're animals and like us they can unpredictable but well where do you draw the line? I know that the problem is me - I wondered if like it was a common thing for dogs to pee on people their owners hated - I have seen dogs pee on random people at the park but this is different - this is only people that have wanted to negatively impact on my life - they have both been alcholics, one is trying to avoid child support and his children - they're just not nice people. I am a passionate person if you like, I think that people I haven't met yet are potential friends and my dog has the same attitude. But if you hurt me or my family or someone I care about, I don't forget it and I certainly can't forgive it. So no, I don't really care that my dog has peed on these people and that is the problem. He peed on people maybe 3 times in his whole life. He has peed on the belongings of one of them many many times and it was wrong but obviously I can't hide how I feel about someone from my dog. I will make sure he is not with me when I have to deal with these people. If someone screams at my dog or gets really scared, he runs away from them and comes looking for guidance. If they just act silly, like saying "oh nice doggy, here you want some food doggy please don't eat me doggy" well he follows them around and accepts the food they give him. Thank you for the advice. It is hard over the internet when you haven't met the dog, but I love the passion of everyone here for their dogs and I think you were all spot on. I don't discipline him for this the way I do for things that I think are really bad, and he notices the difference. I just wanted to know if this happened to anyone else, and how they handled it.

Sammy is a clever boy - believe it or not he is now training to get his CCD title (having passed the 5 grades below that level). He also does agility. When he is with me and I want to work, he is amazing. I can teach him a new trick in less than a minute, and he will remember that even if I am too lazy to practice again for weeks. But if I'm not on my game, well neither is he. And I'm not going to lie, anyone who has met me will know that I'm a very happy and active person, and I find a lot of situations funny that I shouldn't so as usual, nothing wrong with Sammy - he is just my mirror. When I'm nervous, I bite my nails. With relocation, a new job and a couple of personal issues, I have been doing it a lot in recent months. My dog has now started chewing on his paws. We took him to the vet - nothing physically wrong with him and my partner is convinced he is copying me. He yells at us both to stop biting our 'fingers'. Sammy just copies and follows me everywhere. These people can sadly not be removed from my life - it probably doesn't help that I have several friends who are virtually at the point of wanting to attack these people for some of the things they have done to me - and these are people who have never been in fights (ie not violent). You know you have to be civil in these situations, not that they are, but I don't think I would ever be able to tell Sammy off properly for peeing on them or their stuff so I will just have to keep him away from them.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I think I understand now. To Poodlefan - I probably don't tell him off as much as I should - when you dislike someone as much as this (and if you have met me you'll probably have noticed that I like most people) and your dog pees on them well it's hard to be genuinely upset, and Aussielover is probably right, I can't lie to Sammy. He has only peed on people that have either made me cry, or made us (Dan and I) really angry (which is a big thing for me). He is not aggressive with them (or anyone/thing for that matter), but he is opportunistic, clever and he seems to think he's pretty good. I think I know what the problem is; I think people are silly for being scared of him, the truth is if they don't like him well it's hard to be friends when Sammy means so much to me (and I to him). So with those people he probably thinks it's ok to be a bit cheeky and try his luck - we do tell him off and so for the most part it's not a problem - and he still won't touch their plates, just puts his head near it, maybe rests on their lap or something. But with people I don't like or respect at all, I guess he thinks anything goes. If my partner and I are having a fight, and Dan tries to tell Sammy off for something, he ignores him and comes running to me - like he wants a second opinion. He will literally come and stand at my side and wait for Dan to catch up. I always support Dan because I think we should be united (even if we're fighting over something else), but it's hard for Dan, because if I'm being mean to him, Sammy will also have less time for him. And I think Sammy loves Dan, I just think that maybe dobermans are 1 person dogs. I can't lie to him, and telling him off when I don't mean it will not stop him doing it again. I guess I will just have to keep him away from people I don't like until I have better control over myself lol.