jacqui835

Well as many people will know my dog has very strong prey drive, loves to destroy fluffy squeaky toys and lure coursing is his favourite activity of all time (well 2nd only to hunting real animals...). However, pack members come first, and my dog and kitten share a very special bond. I would love to see photos of other people's pets together.

I disagree with this statement. If you don't think you're going to be a great dog owner/trainer, but still want a dog, there are certain options that are safer than others. For example, say in one case the family owns a staffy, and in the other, they own a papillon. I'm not saying you should necessarily ever own a dog if you don't think you can train it properly, but, I personally know people who don't want to train dogs and subsequently elect to own cavaliers and papillons. No damage done to date. Certain breeds typically have more prey drive, need to be trained out of natural DA etc whereas others tend to be more laid-back just naturally. Yes it's sad that this dog wasn't trained properly, and training would have made a difference, but breed/size/power available etc also all make a difference too so I agree very much with the people who have been saying that this family should never have owned a powerful breed. But training could of reduced greatly the chance of this happening. OK so NEVER happening was proberly the wrong word We dont know what the breed was so at this stage that has nothing to do with it. Very true. But if the provision of adequate training is doubtful, well staffy + no training = disaster, papillon + no training = maybe not a problem at all.

I'm not sure that I would describe dobermans as non-destructive... It took a lot of training, and he still has urges, he just represses them now or redirects onto his toys etc. And he destroys every toy. The soft ones are decimated, as are the kongs and everything else. I agree with the rest. The doberman is very cuddly with his family - mine thinks he's a lap dog and also if you say hug time and hug him, he will wrap his head around your shoulders to hug you back. He welcomes my friends to our home, and has an excellent memory. But he is a one person dog, and so he's not overly affectionate with strangers. The longevity issue is a big one. I ended up with a mixed breed just because (and this was before DOL) the breeders I met were proud of their dogs that made it to 6... I have a dog now where his family are 13+, but his father has both rotty (a rotty grandparent) and rhodesian ridgeback. Mother is pure dobe though.

I disagree with this statement. If you don't think you're going to be a great dog owner/trainer, but still want a dog, there are certain options that are safer than others. For example, say in one case the family owns a staffy, and in the other, they own a papillon. I'm not saying you should necessarily ever own a dog if you don't think you can train it properly, but, I personally know people who don't want to train dogs and subsequently elect to own cavaliers and papillons. No damage done to date. Certain breeds typically have more prey drive, need to be trained out of natural DA etc whereas others tend to be more laid-back just naturally. Yes it's sad that this dog wasn't trained properly, and training would have made a difference, but breed/size/power available etc also all make a difference too so I agree very much with the people who have been saying that this family should never have owned a powerful breed.

If you want a puppy and everything that comes with it - the good and the bad, get a puppy. In my case, if we decided to get another dog and I could find one of the right breed that was an adult and already had a great temperament, I would probably opt for that option, but I'm not a puppy/baby animal person. I got a puppy the first time because I wanted to own the parents, but they weren't for sale...

What an absolute cutie, I have a real soft spot for the Malinois. You're in for a lot of fun... But omg, just watched that video and it brought back some terrible memories... We love our dobe so much, but he's from a working family and as a puppy, he nearly killed us. He never stopped, and he was bigger than a mal pup too. That puppy enclosure looks like an amazing idea... Now, at almost 2, we take him for 10-15km bike rides every 2nd day at a mean speed of about 20km/h. He also does training and agility and plays with other dogs at the dog park. When he gets home, the cat enters the twilight zone and the two of them carry on for as long as we'll let them. His prey drive is something else. He can spend all day chasing rabbits, and as a direct quote from the guys at the lure coursing place in Adelaide where they train the greyhounds "he'd chase a dead fly on a string". But he's so worth it. I can't imagine owning any other sort of dog, so I will have to wait until I'm next not working before I could get another. Can't wait to see photos as she grows up, will have to live vicariously through you for a while yet (since there's no break in sight for oh, at least the next 10 years or so ) PS the saddest thing I ever saw was a Malinois at Centennial Park in Sydney with a guy who didn't look like he could handle a spaniel let alone a working dog He bought it from Pets Paradise - and was told it was an energetic but medium sized low-maintenance dog.

Absolutely. I 'came' with a rabbit, a hare, and a dog, and they were non-negotiable. It was understood they wouldn't be the last pets I would ever have. OH and I share the responsibility for the dogs because that's the way OH approaches sharing a life with someone. If he was happy to let me do my own thing with them, it wouldn't be so important that I discuss animal-related things with him to such an extent. I would definitely not be with someone who was not cool with pets. I'd never be happy. I love the fact that they are every bit as important to OH as they are to me. I love that I can trust him to make good decisions for them. It's nice having someone who cares about them as much as I do and knows them as well as I do to help me make decisions about them. Totally off-topic, though I agree with everything you're saying, I noticed you mentioned a hare, which resulted in me paying more attention to your signature... Kit is gorgeous :D And I agree, my life and my career would be impossible living in a different state from my family if I didn't have a partner as committed to the care of my animals as what I am. ETA I think in my case though, I sort of knew that my partner would come to love a doberman, he just didn't know as much about them as what I did and subsequently didn't know what was possible with the breed under good conditions. I knew what my partner liked about dogs, he just wouldn't believe me that dobes could offer it and that they could be loving. So I had to bring one home (1 year into our relationship) and now his friends call Sammy his fur-child because Dan is a man possessed.

I do agree with this, but I think it also comes down to you and your relationship. I have wanted a doberman for years - for as long as I can remember and I couldn't imagine going through life and missing out on ever owning one. I figured I would be able to find at least one guy who would still like me despite my doberman. Now we have been together for almost 3 years, so yeah, things are a little different. But I don't honestly think it would work between me and someone who didn't want any dogs or only liked small fluffy dogs or something - Sammy is a huge huge part of my life. I think this is going to be different for every individual and relationship.

My OH is the one who wants another dog - I'm more of a 1 dog person, but I did want a cat. My OH is very much a dog person (although initially he wasn't keen on the idea of a doberman - he now thinks they're the best breed around) but he was very anti cat. Well one day I came home with a tonkinese. Dan lectured me non-stop for a while (about buying a pet without his input etc), which wasn't fun but then decided that actually he really likes the cat mentality. He now loves the way the cat takes what he wants, demands his food and stalks around like a mini-panther and to top it off, the cat has decided Dan is his person and follows him around adoringly. These days, Dan says he and the cat have an understanding and he's so happy that he finally has 'his' pet. It's gone so far that Dan says if we ever break up, he's taking the cat... I think in my case, I knew what pets I wanted and I needed to find a human partner who would just accept that (and in fact love my animals). It's going to be different depending on your partner, but if you think he'll eventually come around and you're confident in your choice of dog, I would just bring the dog home one day and focus on the good points.

Truly I wish I was in your situation. We're the sort of family who bring home the pet and spend the first week calling them pup or kitty until we can think of a name... I have lots of names for females - I want a female black doberman called Vada and a female Ridegback called Isis but unfortunately, I keep coming home with boys. So we have a dog called Sam.

I don't know where he's meeting these 'timid' Borders They are a breed that 90% of the time try to eat something while being groomed (me or the dryer) - same when I vet nursed. My brothers Border bit me on the face a few years ago for doing exactly what that little girl did - I got in his face and he didn't like it. My fault completely but it's something common in the breed - they don't mind having a little nip here and there. Before the BC lovers start screaming I grew up with Borders as working dogs so feel entitled to have my opinion. When you get a good one they are the most awesome dogs, but they 'aint a dog I would ever let my child pat or that I don't treat with a healthy respect. There's no breed I would advise anyone pat without knowing the dog and speaking to the owner. I've been attacked by 3 breeds - chihuahua's, boxers and labradors (all whilst I was a young child) and yet none of those breeds are ever targeted by bsl... And yet when I was a kid, if I was bitten for approaching a strange dog, it was my fault and there was no talk of punishing the dog. I don't know why owners let their dogs get into uncomfortable and dangerous situations - which is what happened here.

I think this suggestion is good. This way the victims of one-off, freak events would be spared and distinguished from the people who can't be responsible for their pets. If a tree fell down and broke our fence, or our cleaner forgot to close our gate properly and my dog wandered into the next door neighbour's yard (the only place he ever goes because there was once a free range rabbit there), well I would not think it was fair if he was desexed for something out of my control. Not everyone believes that desexing is in the best interest of their dogs - in my eyes it would be harming my dog and putting him at greater risk of bone cancers etc so I do not think that he should be forced to undergo surgery unless there's a damn good reason.

I'm not sure if I'm too late, and my dog is only a dobe x rottie but he has a few where he looks kinda bold... Bold Sammy And maybe this one of him looking shy (more bashful really) 'Shy' Sammy

I know, they need to get at least one dobie in their series...

Beautiful photos. I would love to have something like this done with me and my dog - he at least is very photogenic... If you ever come to SA or NSW let me know and I'll be there.

Wow what do you mean by copy me? Like, with my dog, if I put up one hand he will put out the other paw etc and change paws when I change hands, but do you mean like, he can say to his dog, "copy me" and like, pick up a ball or something and the dog will pick up a ball too? We're in the process now of trying to work out how many words our dog knows. We have just passed 100 - including names of particular dogs and people - he has a great memory for names.

Why do dogs in Europe live longer? Not an academic article but interesting none the less.

ahh good thinking, Cas. I was actually looking at it from the other side and thinking if someone was so easily influenced by that article and turned off getting a particular breed because of it they probably didnt understand the breed to start with so a good thing they didnt get one. My biggest concern is that articles like these can influence people to support BSL. This article is not saying don't own these dogs unless you know what you're getting yourself into (which I would agree with). It is instead saying, don't own these dogs because they were bred for functions that make them incompatiable with society today.

I own a dog that does have a very high pain threshold (doberman), and frankly, I think it makes him a safer dog. Young children can pull his fur and ears and he's un-phased. I have seen 'family friendly' breeds snap at children for that sort of behaviour. And tonight for example, our male kitten decided to try and um suckle from our dog and ended up in some very interesting locations. I feel that if our dog had been more sensitive to pain, there's a good change he may have reprimanded the kitten, but instead, he just lay there and actually accommodated the kitten. Guy sounds like a complete idiot and it just sucks that we live in a world where ignorant people have so much influence. Also, just in case anyone else is worried, our kitten left his mother at 9.5 weeks and had been weaned since 6, so I'm not sure why he has suddenly decided to try and suckle from our dog...

Wow looks like everyone had a great day, I wish I could have been there I particularly feel bad for Sammy, because although he's had a lot of walks and play time with other dogs, I don't think anything makes him as happy as chasing a "rabbit"/lure. Can't wait till the 30th!!

The study covered: " Dogs. . . routinely housed for their entire reproductive lives in cages or runs, and provided with minimal to no positive human interaction or other forms of environmental enrichment". I would not consider such facilities "well run" . . . I would consider them cruel. I also consider it cruel to keep a single dog confined in a back yard with minimal to no positive human interaction or environmental enrichment. Neither size, nor commercial viability is the deciding factor. It's whether the dog is allowed social interaction, stimulation, adequate food and shelter, etc. Many dogs delight in social interaction with other dogs, and a large kennel that gives dogs opportunity to spend a lot of time out of doors in social groups is often a great place from a dog's perspective. Some small scale breeders are every bit as neglectful of their dogs as "commercial" breeders. In my experience, well-cared for retired breeding dogs go right into a family setting with few adjustment problems . . . mine always slept on the bed and were allowed on the sofa, so most of the adjustment they had to do was in the form of learning new boundaries. Large kennels are nothing new and have played a major role in the establishment of some breeds. . . Sandringham kennels was established by King Edward VII in 1879 to house 100 dogs . . . pretty big I'd say . . . but not a puppy farm . . . a large fraction of the dogs housed there had / have extensive field training and far more opportunity to do dog things than most of our dogs will ever have. Many 'commercial' Lab breeders in the US make as much money off 'starting' pups as they do breeding them . . . and quite a few hunters prefer to pay three or more thousand dollars extra to get a started pup in part because they like the effects of a dog who gets lots of gentle early training and socialisation and recognise that it's hard for a family where everyone works 9 to 5 is not the best environment for a young pup. The largest breeder I worked with when I was in Australia took all her dogs (except young pups, bitches in season, etc.) for a long tromp across fields every day, and gave them a few hours in small groups in a large grassed exposure. It was a joy to watch and the dogs were beautifully adjusted. There is a real danger of society making rules based on size, rather than paying attention to how dogs are cared for. It won't get rid of neglect, and it will cause problems for some people who have devoted their lives to bettering a breed. Back to back breeding is a separate issue . . . I don't have access to veterinary journals at this point in my life . . . but when I did, I could not find any evidence that it was physiologically harmful. I'd imagine someone else can find the references on this.. . .the subject is well worked on DOL and no one seems to change their positions. I have never bred more than two litters in 18 months and never had more than 5 litters from one bitch. So I can't speak from personal experience. But the reproductive specialist vets I know tell me there's not a problem. I am quite happy to poo-pooh the notion of 'poor girl' 'forced' to have puppies. My girls always got very jealous of whoever had pups. Most of them would get milk and work their way into the whelping box to be with the pups when one of the other girls had pups. (I'm down to 2 girls now, one spayed, the other not yet bred . . . so I write in past tense). This is a very well-written post. I suppose my concern as a pet owner would be that if tomorrow, we out-lawed all the people breeding commercially and the byb's, how many breeders would be left? And of those breeders, how many would have more than one breeding female?And then, in the case of my breed, how many would have dogs capable of their original purpose, vs the breeders who think there's no longer a place in society for true dobermans (and so aim for less protective, more social dogs)? I met 6 breeders when looking for my dobe, and I wasn't happy with one of them and ended up with a pup from a byb that I couldn't be happier with. She was retired, had kept dobes for 30+ years and our values were completely aligned. The others were all registered breeders who made no money from their hobby, but also didn't seem to have the dog's best interests at heart (given that I was repeatedly told that 6 was a good age for a doberman to reach, and wobblers was virtually a given). Now of course on these forums there are doberman breeders who think of nothing but their dogs, but I don't like the appearance of many - the thin, smaller dogs with pointy snouts (and I know from these forums and other places that I'm not alone). I would be devastated if I found out my breeder wouldn't be allowed to breed anymore. And why can't she start her own breed? She doesn't think there would be enough interest, or good homes for that matter. The dogs themselves are cheap - they're not purebred and she's not looking to make money. The hard part is selling yourself so that she will sell one to you. I know there are plenty of people here who think so long as the genes are good there's nothing wrong with inbreeding and having dogs that are very nearly clones of their parents, and to an extent I agree (I would love a clone of my dog for my next dog), but what if you're not the sort of person who wants what everyone else wants? Today I feel that the focus of almost every registered breeder is to produce dogs that are more and more similar in temperament across all breeds. Social and friendly dobermans (when the standards calls for them to be aloof) or labs in dobe clothing (as one breeder described her dogs to me - like it was a good thing), hunters with less prey drive, border collies and kelpies with less energy... They look different, but today it seems that there is a desired uniform temperament across the breeds towards which everyone strives. German shepherds that roll over when greeting a new person for the first time and it goes on... And I am not trying to say that breeds shouldn't evolve or that any dog should be aggressive, but there is a difference between aloof, protective and aggressive... It's just a thin line; once you start regulating to remove the bad, you risk losing the good too. Both my pets are crosses (Tonkinese first generation siamese cross burmese) and a doberman cross, but both were bred by people who did know the history of their lines, who had selected quality animals and invested lots of time and money into creating the animals they dreamed of owning. Is this not something that anyone else thinks should continue to have a place in society?

Hi guys, unfortunately I will not be able to make tomorrow anymore. There has been a tragedy in my partner's family, and so we are leaving for Melbourne tomorrow at 6:35am. I hope everyone has a really great time Trevor lives really close by to the track, and so for the people who are still going, you will just need to call Trevor when you're on your way. Numbers are 08 8520 2347 and/or 0417 878 511. These numbers are available publicly on a few websites so I hope it's ok to post them here.

I had a topic a little while ago (may it RIP...) where I asked for advice re my dog peeing on the belongings of people I didn't like, and one piece of helpful advice that I think is probably true, is that dogs can sometimes pee and mark when they are nervous or unsure to make the place smell more familiar etc. Maybe because he's in a new home he is feeling a little unsure of himself still and the problem may get better with time as well. ETA I'm sure having another dog marking inside is not helping, but you might be able to derive some reassurance from the fact that even entire males can learn not to pee inside the house - regardless of who else may be peeing in the house. My male is entire, my sisters dogs are not really toilet trained. If they pee in their house when we're over, my dog will sniff it but not mark over it. It seems in my case the only thing that will make him pee where he shouldn't is stress. He sees that a person upsets me, so that person stresses him out too. If he smells something of theirs, he pees on it to cover the scent.

Haha I was going to say, I'm so used to my dog accompanying me to the bathroom I don't even think it's weird anymore :s

Does anyone know why some dogs do this? My dog seems to have that too, though to a lesser degree. He will always prefer to have something in his mouth when he first sees me after work or something. In his case, he will only pick up his own toys, and if he can't find anything within like 5-10 seconds he gives up and runs back to say hello with nothing. But the first thing he does when someone he really likes (it's really only me and my OH) arrives is look quickly around for a toy to hold.