conztruct

I'm sure that RSG doesn't need me to defend them but earlier in the thread they commented that the DOL members much loved pet was very cute. The comment made about not getting a start was in relation to showing and potentially breeding - nothing to do with what kind of pet the dog is. They certainly didn't degrade the dog - just said that they wouldn't show or breed - didn't get into specifics. It's a personal opinion which everyone is entitled to. I think he looks just lovely but that has nothing to do with show or breeding quality. I don't know about you but I'd much rather get the honest feedback on here than get it very publicly in the show ring from a judge. People who show and breed seriously need to be critical and you'll find that they are just as scathing with their own stuff when they have to make the call. It's also the people who tell owners that their pet is so cute and lovely that encourage them to breed which introduces poorer specimens of the breed into the pool. and the op specifically said in the first post that she had no intention of showing him, and did not at any time ask for an assessment of the dog. Well RSG just said she wouldn't show him - so I don't think that's exactly a critique. If you put a photo of your dog up on the internet especially in a forum where there are people who are experienced in the breed of course they're going to pick things up and have an opinion, and really although the original poster didn't ask about showing that's definately the direction the thread took with the additional questions being asked. I think we all agree that the pup is very cute but everyone has their idea about show and breeding quality. At the end of the day, people love their pets regardless of their perceived quality and that's all that matters.

I'm sure that RSG doesn't need me to defend them but earlier in the thread they commented that the DOL members much loved pet was very cute. The comment made about not getting a start was in relation to showing and potentially breeding - nothing to do with what kind of pet the dog is. They certainly didn't degrade the dog - just said that they wouldn't show or breed - didn't get into specifics. It's a personal opinion which everyone is entitled to. I think he looks just lovely but that has nothing to do with show or breeding quality. I don't know about you but I'd much rather get the honest feedback on here than get it very publicly in the show ring from a judge. People who show and breed seriously need to be critical and you'll find that they are just as scathing with their own stuff when they have to make the call. It's also the people who tell owners that their pet is so cute and lovely that encourage them to breed which introduces poorer specimens of the breed into the pool.

I don't think blues are precluded from showing - anyone who owns a blue is able to show it. I've seen a dog at shows who some people would consider blue (I don't think he is, to me he looks like a steely gray brindle - help me out staffie people, I don't know if this colouring is a dilute and would come under the same category because I don't understand that), but he is an absolutely stunning, and I mean STUNNING dog and he wins a lot. So it seems that regardless of colour, if a dog is good quality it can do well. I guess what the posters have highlighted though is that there may be problems and are areas where blues don't adhere to the standard - and some judges will pick this up. Just because some exhibitors personally choose not to show a dog that starts behind the rest because of non-compliance with the standard I don't think any of them are saying that others aren't allowed to make up their own mind. From what I've seen they've all said that people can do what they want but they personally wouldn't show and that's fair enough.

Right, so the colour doesn't matter because a blue staffy can be fit for purpose, which begs the question, why are they verboten? I'm not that knowledgable on staffies but from what I've read in the thread, I think that's been answered. It's a personal choice for the owner to decide if they are a good specimen of the breed or not and you're going to get a whole range of opinions. The opinions of the staffie people on here who have responded is based on their experience in the breed over a long period of time. I don't think that any of them have said that a "blue" cannot be a good specimen but there is a greater risk of issues and there are some fundamental areas (black nose) where they genetically can't adhere to the standard. While there are no disqualifications, I can totally understand a reluctance to show or use a dog in a breeding program where genetics increases the risk of health issues or you are starting behind the 8-ball in terms of using dogs that adhere to the standard. Some breeders standards are very high which is a good thing I think, while others have different ideas - it all comes down to personal choice and I think all the posters have given us that - their personal opinion. Blues are not forbidden per se but some breeders (and it's their choice!) consider them such from their own perspective.

I do it for the fun day out with the dogs, I always have but that's no excuse to put a second rate dog or bitch into the ring. The pup is also on the main register and I really have to ask WHY ? Why - probably the breeder's decision I guess. I was at a show recently and overheard a breeder (it was a loud conversation so I didn't exactly have to strain to hear it) saying to a person who came looking for the staffies that yes, she breeds blue but naturally they cost a lot more than regular staffies....(?!?) I'm no expert in staffies but from what I saw of this breeders dogs in the ring, I wouldn't buy one from them of any colour and definately not after hearing that comment.

OMG how stupid.....you should have turned the hose on her and said "I'm just playing "

Sub, It's awful when dogs fight - but when the reality or potential for this is there, separation is a solution that works for the dogs and owners physical and mental health. My dogs are crate trained and have separate secure runs, and all take turns at having run of the yard (never together though) and they are happy and healthy. They are powerful dogs and I'd hate to be in the situation where I had to try and separate them if they decided they didn't like each other. It is a situation that I have chosen to avoid without exploring the possibilities (I've decided it's not worth it) and it's worked well for me and there's less stress on the dogs and me....... If there's one thing I'd suggest to you, it's that rehoming is not a good idea with a dog that has exhibited the behaviour you have described. Even if you give the new owner full disclosure and explain what has happened, honestly how would you feel if there was an incident......it's just not worth the risk. That's only my opinion. I hope you find a solution that works for you and the dogs.

Well done - you went to great lengths to do as much as you could for this poor dog. Hindsight always makes it easier for could'ves and maybes and ifs with a lot more information on hand than what you had at the time, but you have to work with what you know and what you had at the time and your actions were very admirable. More than anything else, I think it highlights the need for more resources. Given the massive amounts of money that councils generate from registrations etc, you think they could provide more resources for situations like these. Mostly they just don't care though and near enough or a laclustre token effort is good enough as far as they're concerned. Not good enough! I think the saddest thing about this event is these people left this poor dog at the station and it waited and waited for someone to come back . I don't understand how people can do something like that.

How awful - what really gets me is why does someone think about filming an incident like this when it's happening instead of helping people to safety etc.....? I wonder how much he sold the footage for - the only thing more tragic than the lion attacking the trainer (i don't agree with these circus acts but it's still unfortunate and tragic) is someone trying to make a buck by filming it.

I agree with you Shaar if the dog is being sold as a guaranteed show dog. In my experience though most breeders (and I can only speak for my own breed) make no guarantees that a pup or dog will be show quality (with an older dog though it's sometimes easier to know if they'll be alright to show). If the pup or dog does come with a guarantee of show quality then I think return and refund is appropriate but I think that if you buy a pup or dog in the hope of showing them but have been advised that there is no guarantee of show quality (and I believe in this case from the other posts the buyer was aware of potential issues) I think demanding a refund from the breeder is a bit much to expect - sure, sell the pup as a pet and try again but to make the breeder responsible is a little rich IMHO only. Without all the circumstances behind the situation Asal was referring to, we can't really know and it's not my place to judge - the above are just some hypotheticals.

This kind of thing makes me sad moreso than angry - sad for the poor animal that is. I know they're gone, but shouldn't we be putting our energy and passion into something more productive. Sure it's ever so tempting to try and bring these people down so they realise the extent of their actions - but will they really ever realise. People just don't seem to care anymore - it makes me wonder, if these beasts can do this to a puppy or animal what kind of regard do they have for human life and is it a pre-cursor to an escalation in violence against humans. Sad, sad, sad. But I don't think retaliating with violence is the answer - an "eye for and eye" makes the whole world blind. These monsters should definately be named and shamed though and the penalties should be much higher and have more impact.

Just a sign of our society. We are growing a selfish, me me me, zero tolerance society. I absolutely fear having neighbours who target my dogs - they're not badly behaved or noisy or anything like that, but some people think that one bark is excessive (though never mind their brats of kids screaming constantly all hours of the day and night). So far I've been very lucky and had great neighbours but I'm sure the day will come (hopefully not) when I'll have to put up with idiots. I think I need to buy a nice big property far away - it's little wonder people live in fear in suberbia and virtually imprison themselves in their homes.

If that were the case there's no way that you should or be expected to take her out of the ring.......congratulations on the achievements - I'm still gunning for my first BIG I'm a total newbie - I think most people are happy when I turn up with mine because they usually know they're going to win - LOL. I have a lovely, lovely girl who unfortunately has an incorrect bite - it's a real shame because she loves the ring, thinks she's all that, free-stacks for me and moves like a little champ. It doesn't matter to her or me that we don't win because she has a ball so I keep entering her. A comment from a friend when we went to a show up north last weekend "I think that judge really liked her until she opened the mouth......." LOL. I guess this comes back to what I was saying about getting enough points to gain a CH title and the standard of the exhibits aren't very closely related. Sure if I pick and choose the right shows, I'll probably eventually get enough challenge points for a title but I don't pick and choose shows or shy away from them because there may or may not be other dogs entered there and I don't really enter for the points but I'm going to bl00dy celebrate long and hard if we get them - hahaha. Edit to add - I totally agree with the more stringent requirements on the GR CH but let us rank amateuers have our small wins with our 100 point CH. It's not my fault for entering enough shows to get them - if the judges think my dog is cr@p, they don't have to award them. interesting, i had to take back and refund a buyer who said they knew teeth could go out as the adult teeth came in, had perfect puppy teeth but the adult teeth came in wrong, and on the advice of the ringside gallery was told take it back youve been robbed, if it cant make champion then your entitled to your money back. i gather now if you main register a pup according to the gallery thats a guarantee it can make CH? anyway, hes rehomed now and his delighted owner rang me to say thanks to him he was alerted a burgler was trying to break into his home. soo demoted from show dog to pet, n hes saved his owner from being burgled. luckyhe didnt know he shouldnt bark if he dont have perfect teeth eh? That's a shame - it's a little sad when people demand a refund when things don't work out perfectly. I mean, especially if you're totally aware that that's what can happen and no guarantees are made by the breeder. The ringside gallery can be brutal at times and I've certainly received advice from them in the past but I think you need to take it with a grain of salt and make your own decisions - otherwise you'll never get anything that is quite good enough for the "gallery" and you'll annoy a hell of a lot of breeders in the process. Sure, it was a shame when my girl's mouth went out but a few bad teeth doesn't make a dog a pile of rubbish (well, maybe in some people's eyes). Sometimes I think we're on the wrong side of a bit of a teeth bias when we show but we're well and truly in it for participation and enjoyment rather than winning. My win comes from people commenting outside the ring at how great she looked and moved around the ring and how well trained she is, even if we do come last in our class . I think we'll probably achieve a championship title which is all nice but then we'll be moving onto our new challenge at obedience because she's super smart and will enjoy this too I'm sure (ok so maybe I'm a little biased - lol).

Had that happen to me in Sydney some years ago. Needed just the same amount of points as the CC would have given my dog. Everybody else pulled and sat at ringside and watched me pull up a couple of points short. Joke was on them though because they also had to sit at ringside and watch me win the Group. Didn't need their piddly points anyway! LOL - that's called getting one's "come-uppance" - well done. I'd take that kind of behaviour as a compliment - obviously all those people thought your dog was the best exhibit in the breed cos they'd all given up on winning it themselves. It's kinda backhanded, but a bit of a compliment non-the-less. I agree with you Ellz and the other posters who find this really petty. As I said earlier, I rarely win with my bitch but she loves showing.....I'm not going to pull her out though just so that someone else doesn't get an extra point.

If that were the case there's no way that you should or be expected to take her out of the ring.......congratulations on the achievements - I'm still gunning for my first BIG I'm a total newbie - I think most people are happy when I turn up with mine because they usually know they're going to win - LOL. I have a lovely, lovely girl who unfortunately has an incorrect bite - it's a real shame because she loves the ring, thinks she's all that, free-stacks for me and moves like a little champ. It doesn't matter to her or me that we don't win because she has a ball so I keep entering her. A comment from a friend when we went to a show up north last weekend "I think that judge really liked her until she opened the mouth......." LOL. I guess this comes back to what I was saying about getting enough points to gain a CH title and the standard of the exhibits aren't very closely related. Sure if I pick and choose the right shows, I'll probably eventually get enough challenge points for a title but I don't pick and choose shows or shy away from them because there may or may not be other dogs entered there and I don't really enter for the points but I'm going to bl00dy celebrate long and hard if we get them - hahaha. Edit to add - I totally agree with the more stringent requirements on the GR CH but let us rank amateuers have our small wins with our 100 point CH. It's not my fault for entering enough shows to get them - if the judges think my dog is cr@p, they don't have to award them.

Haven't been in the position to do it but I've seen plenty of situations where it has been done or people have expected it (sometimes with not very pleasant results). If I had a dog that was good enough to win 28 BIGs I wouldn't stop showing it either unless the dog absolutely hated showing . If I enter a show I do it because I want to show - doesn't matter who is there or isn't and if I win great, I've beaten all on offer. I don't expect people to withdraw to makes things easier on me and I wouldn't do it for someone else - it all comes down to whether I want to show and if my dogs enjoy it. Showing is great fun but I think a lot of people take the points thing way too seriously and equate obtaining points to virtue in the breed which isn't always necessarily the case - I think breeding to the standard and showing are quite separate and not always good indicators of the other aspects.

Erny - that's how I feel about me & Apple Cider Vinegar And that is what I'd use instead of the white vinegar Conztruct ;) Thanks T-time - I'm an ACV convert too :D My doggies have a little in their water, a teaspoon or so in their food every other day and I give them a rinse in ACV diluted in water after their baths - you're preaching to the converted and I'll give it a try. I'm not sure that that's even the problem - maybe their paws have softened and are looking a bit "furry" due to the wet we've had here of late - sun's out for the first time in ages today so hopefully things will dry out. Taking better care of the dogs feet won't hurt though no matter what the weather. Fortunately no signs of discomfort, inflammation, etc and we're still going to little walks and doing playtime everyday.

Thanks Erny. I'm open to anything and prefer to use more natural things where possible rather than chemicals etc Will give it a try and see how I go. I colleague at work told me to try diluting some white vinegar and bathing with this as well. Still not sure if that's what it is because it only seems to have come on since everything's been soggy from the rain and I've had her two years without it.....so time will tell I guess. Thanks again.

Hi All, After doing a whole bunch of googling I think one of my dogs has developed this on her back paws (well it looks like the picture I saw except there's no fluro about it like I read in one article....). I might be completely wrong but the paw pad seems to have become a sea of fibrous little "hairs" - looks like spaghetti........ It hasn't resulted in any reduction in activity or anything - I noticed it when doing her nails the other day. I wondered if anyone who had experienced this might be able to confirm if it is - I've been bathing the paws and using vitamin E cream and Vaseline which has seemed to have improved them a bit. I thought it might have been some kind of fungus or infection because we've had a lot of rain and everything is quite soggy at the moment. I saw the treatments about dremmeling, etc and not too comfortable - I just thought with the improvement I saw that it may be something different - I'll take her to the vet for a look but any extra info would be great. I've looked at lots of the online stuff about it but thought I'd check in the DOL brains trust....

I do understand what the original question for the thread is getting at but if a judge's decisions are going to be influenced by an exhibitor giving them morning tea - I think the appropriateness is with the judge's ethics rather than someone showing a little courtesy and providing them with some comfort - after all they're usually standing out there for hours. Sure - politics of this nature probably happens in shows but I think everyone beats it up and assumes it happens way more than it does - it's an exception rather than the rule. Most of the politicking happens between the exhibitors who waste all their energy on this type of rubbish. Sorry if it offends but I think taking exception at something like that and the insinuation and assumption it's going to result in a biased outcome is a cop-out and a convenient excuse for someone to use if they don't win. Not saying that's necessarily where the original poster was coming from or meaning (I don't like to make assumptions) but I really think this is a nice gesture and if the exhibitor thinks it's going to get them somewhere, I think that's even sadder - LOL.

Wow - this has become quite an interesting topic with lots of good and different viewpoints. I guess the easy answer from where I view this is that it's fine for your daughter to take the dog into the ring but if you are taking a dog with a known and obvious fault you have to be prepared for the worst case consequences. Some judges can be quite scathing. If you are pretty certain your daughter wants to show, a couple of things I'd consider are: Have you asked the breeder if they think it's ok to show the dog - this is something I'd do as a courtesy Have you talked to your daughter about the possible outcomes - eg the judge may refuse the class award or challenge and talk about why Is this the right dog? When most people are starting out it's sometimes better for them to take a proven showdog into the ring to make their first handling experiences as easy as possible - I'm not saying that's what you have to do but it may help as your daughter develops her handling skills. I wouldn't say that I necessarily agree with those saying don't show it but it would depend if an incorrect bite is a disqualifying fault for your breed - if it is, you just need to be aware that you'll be refused. I've shown dogs with faults before because the breeder and I both thought they were still a worthy exhibit but I've always been prepared for the fact that I may be refused - fortunately, it's only ever happened once. I don't necessarily agree with the notion that a dog shouldn't be shown due to a fault unless the standard states it's an automatic disqualification - but you need to realistically assess the dog and probably ask for a few opinions from impartial people before you make your decision. Some really good advice in this thread on both sides of the debate - one thing I'd encourage you to do is take it all on board - embracing different viewpoints in coming to your decision usually results in a better more objective decision and this is what's great about the forum. You may find some of the comments direct but very few are intentionally being rude and trust me, it's much better just to hear things like they are.

I haven't watched the video and won't but all I can say is if this is the way this girl treats a living thing and derives such pleasure, I sincerely hope that she never grows up to become a nurse or any profession that provides care for sick, old, injured or defenceless people. I think what's most shocking is the fact that she did derive such great pleasure and then the sicko who filmed it.

I agree with the advice to appeal the decision. I can't believe how difficult council's make it for people who are trying to do the right thing. I would argue that the over-officious attitude of councils' making life hell for responsible dog owners, does absolutely nothing to prevent the problems they purport to and actually cultivates an "underground" culture. I know our council here is only too happy to make people walk to hell and back for any kind of additional approval for dogs and collect a large fee for rego and applications, yet we have dogs roaming the streets everywhere - I think I'd like their effort directed towards tackling the real problems that are happening. I strongly support some kind of additional consideration to be given by councils' to members of state canine associations and/or some sort of certification as a responsible dog owner. Something similar to the breeders exam and maybe a signed statement of agreement to terms and conditions being the condition on having any number of dogs at a premises - in other words owners need to be licenced. Might be wishful thinking.......

No need to go to an off-leash area - that's what my neighbourhood already is. I usually take my dogs away in the car for a big long walk in a park or something as we can't really go more than about 20m without a neighbour's apparently friendly dog rushing us. If I get to a park and there are off-leash dogs there, while I'm sure some people are responsible with their dogs, I'm not willing to chance it.

Absolutely Teebs 1. STANDARD BULL TERRIER (have now) 2. Miniature Bull Terrier 3. Samoyed 4. Finnish Lapphund 5. Shiba Inu 6. Manchester Terrier 7. Pharoah Hound 8. Swedish Vallhund 9. Beagle 10. Weimerana :nahnah: I really want a Samoyed......