conztruct

LOL - you should try showing up this way RSG - there is no absence of "the good" coffee van - there is just an absence of "a" coffee van .

I use mainly Fido's - the herbal one and the white & brite and find it works quite well. I have some Aloveen and Triocil on hand as well as I find these are quite good if there are any skin flare-ups. I start my dogs bath off always with a good lathering from a bar of Sunlight soap. It seems to clean them well and keeps them fresh - i've also been told it's worked quite well for dogs that have very sensitive skin who get a reaction from other shampoos. ETA: I haven't tried a lot of shampoos so look at others from time to time. There was one whitening shampoo I tried once that worked really well on the dogs but "burned" me so I decided to stop using it.

I totally agree with the first part and will put the most store by the feedback I receive from people who I respect, although I will listen to feedback from anyone and then assess it or check it out with someone else to verify if I need to. As far as I'm concerned the more information and feedback you get, the more of an informed opinion you can have. EG Even if someone gives me some feedback that's completely wrong about my dog I'll remember it especially if that person is a judge or in the judging program..... Some people try to stir up trouble with rather negative feedback although I've never had too much trouble with that because most of them do it behind your back rather than to your face. Even if they did do it to my face I just wouldn't play the game. One statement to suit all situations - "thank you for your feedback, I'll take it on board". It's best not to get offended - it's very rare that anyone would provide feedback of any kind with soley malicious motives.

All the dirty tricks and bad sportsmanship stories reminded me of a really funny thing I saw at a show. It's about someone getting the "come-uppance" in the most unexpected way. I shouldn't laugh about it but I think it's funny. Saturday Show - very ultra-serious exhibitor doesn't win BOB as expected, gets upset and goes on quite vocally about how judge was no good, too old, doesn't know what's going on, etc, and pulls all dogs out of all classes in group in protest. Sunday Show - very ultra-serious exhibitor does win BOB and Group - very happy until entering ring for general specials and judge from Saturday is doing them. As the judge (who was too old and didn't know what was going on apparently....) goes over the dog (I was pretty close to the ring), soft comment from the judge "so, you weren't able to make it back in for group specials yesterday..........." Watching said very ultra-serious exhibitor squirm was quite amusing and kudos to the judge for making the point in such a professional yet cutting way....LOL. And for the record, even though I did absolutely no good under the judge, I thought they did a great job all weekend

they must feel intimidated by you i set up a bit away form the dog in fornt allows room to move up if this happens my show trianer told me this one. LOL - I dont think so, but it is a nice way to look at it! The setting up part is easy to deal with its the crowding on the move that I think is slack! I have seen her do it to a junior showperson as well - Makes you wonder why they come? Awful - if she's right up your backside on the move, I'd go as slowly as I could.....LOL or stop, ask the judge if you can go again and then ask her if she would mind keeping an appropriate distance between her dog and yours.

* Learning - about my breed, other breeds, how to handle, how to groom - there is so much to learn but it's great * Socialising and meeting new people * Laughing at people who take showing way too seriously * Travelling around * My dogs showing well - win or lose * People realising that Bull Terriers are actually not vicious, child-eating monsters that are going to rip their leg off and chew it up if they come within 1 metre * Winning - it's nice to do it sometimes * Handling other dogs - I've had some awesome experiences and learnt a lot from this * Going to Ag Shows

Yes I don't get that.....I"m not used to the deafening silence during group presentation of dogs....the steward asks for applause when the group comes in, but it seems no one is permitted to add to that when dogs are moved or make the cut etc....I've watched BIG and BIS be awarded with no sounds...how anticlimactic for such a big win...is it simply because everyone else is pissed because they lost? LOL - yes - it's really sad isn't it that people can't be happy. A bit of clapping, cheering and general crowd noise can really lift the atmosphere of a show yet it is very much frowned upon. I've been to a few shows where there's been cheering and stuff and I think it's great (I'm not talking about over the top stuff). If your dog is distracted by a litte noise, you need to train it to deal with it. If you don't you'd never make it at a Dog of the Year or a Royal because the noise at those can be deafening. I'm all for a bit of cheering and atmosphere at shows - I think it's what's missing a lot of the time and a reason why people stop showing - it can be really boring when there is deathly silence all round.

Great Idea! If you wanted to maximise attendance, holding it midweek near a major concentration of specialties or a Royal would do a good job. :p This is an awesome idea - I'd really also like though to see technology used and look at web-streaming it as well. There are a lot of people in remote areas who can't attend the seminars but would still benefit from the learning experience.

What cheeses me off is people who take dog showing way too seriously - it's a hobby people and you're meant to enjoy it.......

When I'm out my dogs are undercover and have their own fans and plenty of access to water. Mine aren't inside dogs - the aircon remote would probably be chewed if they were - I don't use my aircon hardly ever so I don't think I'm being unfair.

Don't know if it would work as there would be a lot of complexities to work out but I'm sure someone on here earlier suggested that maybe rather than pet shops having animals in the shop they can have advertisements, videos, pictures, etc and arrange the referrals to the supplier. This could include the full range of options and perhaps some information about things to know about all the different suppliers - I don't mean anything damaging or biased - just a few facts. The pet shop maybe gets a referral fee or the suppliers pay to be on their register. Whilst this could potentially create a whole new raft of issues, the advantage I see is that the consumer would need to go to the supplier to purchase their animal. By seeing the environment that the animal comes from it may assist them in making a more informed decision, especially if they don't like what they see. I have no idea if this even goes close to being an answer because I don't think it's that simple but it may do a little to reduce some of the impulsiveness of the impulse purchase. The advantage for the pet shop is that they are not required to have the animals on-site and this would reduce some costs for them. I think the solution is a whole range of things and never absolute but a lot of the suggestions and discussion have provided some methods that may help to chip away at the issues.

In response to your comments - of course, yes, they were generalisations and I'm very well aware that all registered breeders are not necessarily ethical, or that all pet shops are not necessarily unethical dodgy used-car type sales outlets. I did not cater for all the ifs, buts and maybes scenarios for the purpose of not having a post that went for pages upon pages. My comments were based on my own experiences in looking for a dog as I spoke to many suppliers including pet shops, BYBs (even though I didn't know they were this at the time) and registered breeders. As a relative newbie myself, I'm happy to be educated and am very open to constructive feedback. However, making assumptions about what I seem to be insinuating (especially when they are not correct) and then labelling me as elitist and arrogant is over-stepping the mark fairly significantly and getting very personal. Thank you very much for berating me and I'm sincerely glad that you've taken your frustration out on me which means that hopefully someone else will miss out on being a target. I hope you have a lovely night Sorry Conztruct, that you took my reply so personaly.Yes,it is a frustrating situation,and we all tend to be blunt to get our message accross with out confusing the readers. However,I did find your solution an offensive one,and set out to explain why. I did not label you,but the attitudes that I do see as dangerous. My assuptions about what you seemed to be insinuating seemed to me fair given the way you set it out in black and white. We all have to be so careful that what we say,me included. Its not my intention to belittle you,but point out a too common problem here that drives away the very people we hope to educate and brings division so that the dog world is fractured with every one working against every one else. No need to apologise - no offence taken. The only reason I said anything was due to the elitist, arrogant tag which I didn't necessarily find offensive but wanted to quickly correct. I always make it my policy to check my assumptions (whether I perceive them to be fair or not) are indeed correct but everyone works differently - the assumptions you made were not correct and do not reflect my opinion and I did not want to be "guilty" by association in relation to your general comments in the response. I apologise to all the other posters for the completely OT post. I think the decline in the purebred dog world (which is a hobby basically for most except a few of the larger scale more professional breeders) is largely a sign of the times and something that is being experienced in a whole range of areas. A lot of people are very impulsive now and aren't prepared to research, don't want to wait and let's face it are looking for the best price too. I don't think it's so much anything people who supply dogs of any kind are doing right or wrong, but just the way people are now - educating them to behave differently is extremely difficult because you are looking at changing a culture that is facilitated in just about every aspect of society now.

In response to your comments - of course, yes, they were generalisations and I'm very well aware that all registered breeders are not necessarily ethical, or that all pet shops are not necessarily unethical dodgy used-car type sales outlets. I did not cater for all the ifs, buts and maybes scenarios for the purpose of not having a post that went for pages upon pages. My comments were based on my own experiences in looking for a dog as I spoke to many suppliers including pet shops, BYBs (even though I didn't know they were this at the time) and registered breeders. As a relative newbie myself, I'm happy to be educated and am very open to constructive feedback. However, making assumptions about what I seem to be insinuating (especially when they are not correct) and then labelling me as elitist and arrogant is over-stepping the mark fairly significantly and getting very personal. Thank you very much for berating me and I'm sincerely glad that you've taken your frustration out on me which means that hopefully someone else will miss out on being a target. I hope you have a lovely night :D

Beautiful work Ellz. Have you got anything for a 36kg Bull Terrier?

Sorry - I'm not sure what the answer is because you essentially have two competing motives for the same outcome. The people who are sucked in by impulse purchasing just want a dog, are usually very badly informed, has done no research and believes everything they are told because they simply don't know any better. The suppliers? 1) BYB breeder, pet shop (profit motive) - will maintain a constant supply to prey on impulse purchasers, producing or getting their hands on whatever they can in order to make a sale and a profit. They will tell the consumer anything about health, size, fitness to make the sale including the cross they're trying to sell is pure, papers don't mean anything or they come with papers (a vaccination card) and they are very good at marketing. 2) Registered ethical breeder (quality, support) - breed for the improvement of the breed and usually for something to run on for themselves so there is a limited supply, they usually tell the consumer the truth including potential health problems so they are informed, they usually screen where their puppies go (let's face it - a lot of impulse purchasers provide an environment that a re breeder would never allow one of their puppies to go to) and as their priority is not making a profit do not see the need or aren't interested in marketing. What is the solution? I'm sorry - I don't have much to offer except that our law-makers need to be lobbied to implement some rules where the experience and knowlegde of re breeders is recognised and reflected in legislation, so that BYB's and pet shops are charged some form of tax for the volume they move, are required to provide lifetime money-back guarantees, maybe puppies not from a re breeder have to pay a very inflated rate of registration. Who cares if it isn't fair - lots of people in commercial ventures experience protectism and dis-incentives that are supposed to reign in unscrupulous practices - why should the puppy industry be any different? Rather than trying to turn our re breeders into marketing machines and not being able to fully focus on their dogs, I would favour dis-incentives to the commercial market in conjunction with actions (education!) which better inform the public about the traps of these impulse purchases. I know when I got into dogs with mine I had no idea, no idea about pedigrees or purebred. I'd never had a dog as a pet so didn't know a thing. I was just lucky that my first exposure was at a dog show and I asked questions and then started doing a bit of research which enabled me to make a much more informed choice. Otherwise, I just would have been another one of the gullible people who think they're doing a great thing by taking a puppy home from a pet shop or from an ad in the paper that tells me I'm getting the latest in demand dog, with excellent health and will never have any problems.

I don't really have any answers that can help but I really think that breeding should be a regulated thing, more especially for crosses and non-registered breeders. Not that it always seems to mean a lot... but at least with registered breeders there is some level of ethical requirement. You only need to look at some of the ads in the paper, traders etc to see that health is not the priority of many people breeding out there but rather colour and other fancy selling points. It would be nice if councils would require some sort of registration for breeding fees in the event that someone breeding was not registered already with the ANKC, etc and fines imposed where necessary. Like I said - it's difficult and I don't think that anyone knows what the real answer is. Going back to the point of the discussion about blues - I think that a blue which is a good specimen of the dog can exist but it will very rarely ever come (and will most likely be a fluke) from a breeder who is specialising in breeding blue dogs - if a breeder is breeding for a good specimen against the standard and purpose and happens to have a blue in the litter then the chances of a decent dog would be much higher as I see it. DISCLAIMER - I'm not expert on genetics so not even sure if the above is possible without it being known. PS This thread is very good and has been very educational.

Yes - I think I'd be more comfortable with road transport than air. Not a bad price either really.

What date is this happening Fran?

I'm so sorry - it's really very sad. Was your dog insured? That would probably be the first road I'd go down if it's in play. If no insurance well, it's probably going to be tough but if it was me, I'd be talking to their airline - if they take dogs on the flight and take your money for it then they have some duty of care for it during transit. I'm sure it's the last thing you feel like doing now but realistically you've probably got a few very lengthy phone calls in front of you if you're looking for some resolution.

It had to happen! No - I think the debate was more about if you didn't find the dog cute in your opinion whether or not you should say so.

I find him cute but not everyone is the same. Do you want people to be honest or just sugar coat things. I'm not being smart about it - in my breed you very very frequently get told by the public, show exhibitors, breeders and judges that your dogs are the ugliest thing alive. I can appreciate that everyone has their own opinion and I respect that however, quite a few of the dissidents should take a good look in the mirror IMHO and they might just have a new taker for the prize they've awarded my dog.......

Without seeing the dog in person and as a six month old pup, I believe it was, and sitting down to boot. I wouldn't be taking that opinion either. Like I said - it's up to the owner as to what store they put by the opinion given but posting on a forum they're bound to get them whether they're good, bad or indifferent. Since they asked for some more specifics, I guess they're interested to learn and I think that's a good thing.

As opposed to an opinion from a breeder and exhibitor with a lot of experience and knowledge in that breed - oh, I see. I really don't see where anyone crossed the line - RSG said they wouldn't show him if it was one of theirs and they had reasons why from the information that was placed in the forum in the form of a picture - they didn't go into any details on what in particular they saw which does show a bit of respect for the poster who I now note has asked the experienced breeder and exhibitor to provide some more information which is a great way to learn. At no point did they say that the dog was not a good pet or that in anyone else's opinion it could not be considered a good specimen of the breed - they only spoke to their opinion with the information provided. Public forums are all about sharing information and opinions and instead of taking everything so personally, it is much better to review what was said, work out how relevant it is to you, take what you can out of it and ditch the rest. Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one :D and wouldn't it be a boring world if they were all the same.

Yes - there is absolutely no reason why he can't be shown so if that's what D wants to do, go for it. It isn't all about winning and there's nothing to say that D won't - it's the judges opinion on the day that counts and it's the final word. I didn't realise that D was interested in showing from her earlier post but I really enjoy it and it's a great education - you get to learn a lot and see what else is out there in both your breed and many others. It's also a great idea to go with someone who's done it before - I know for me it was really good to have someone there who understood what was happening and was able to tell me. :D

Nope. I do not find that puppy cute. But since he's not my dog what does it matter what I think of him? The question was why can't I show my blue and the answer was you can but don't be surprised if you don't win because blues as a general rule (not her blue specifically) lack the physical virtues required to make it in the ring. No one made any negative comment about the ability of a blue to be a great pet, have a great temperament etc etc etc. If you then post a picture of a dog (whether it's a good picture or not, or even actually a picture of her dog or not) you have to reasonably expect people to comment on whether or not that specific dog as portrayed in that specific picture looks to have the quality to make it in the ring or not. Well I think he's very cute so we're even :D