Romana

SOUTH AUSTRALIA, Berri, Riverland (250km northeast of Adelaide, along the highway to Sydney): I offer a low-budget VERY pet-friendly accommodation for up to 5 people in 3-bedroom house for only $90 per night. Dogs and cats allowed indoors and can even sleep with you in the beds. Early bookings recommended. Phone(08) 8582 5058

For future reference > the correct page to advertise lost and found dogs in Adelaide is: https://www.facebook.com/adelaidedogs

Thank you. The police has been informed, and the micro-chip registry, too. I will post on the other site as well, and try the dogzonline one once again, too. Thanks to all of you!

Thank you, mixeduppup. I just found out how it works. It seems like that section won't accept ads from breeders who are not registered with the ANKCA (which I am not and will not). I am a registered breeder (but not with the ANKCA, because they won't recognise Australian-bred WHITE SWISS SHEPHERD DOGS, although the rest of the whole world will) and my dog is a very valuable purebred stud male who I gave in care to a person in Adelaide, having him sign a contract, and then this person disappeared with my dog and I am very concerned ... I will set up a new easy-to-find thread here in the forum and hope that someone will keep the eyes open at the right time.

I see that this site has a section called 'Classifieds - Lost & Found Dogs' - but there is no indication how to place an ad there. Any advice?

Juice, Mimimax, and a few others: You are obviously the type of people who drive other, friendly and peaceful, people out of online forums. At least I won't participate in this one any more if people like you keep desperately trying to find some fault in my history or on my website or in my previous online contributions rather than providing useful responses to my current question. I will delete all my contributions here, should this continue, because I strongly object to your attitude and behaviour. Minimax, firstly, it is a huge indiscretion to disclose the private identity and contact details (as featured on my website) of any other forum members, unless they have done it before themselves. Secondly, you did not at all specify in your first attack on me which litter you were talking about. Then, you were trying to ridicule me for picking the wrong one. But if you are interested in the whole story, here you are: With the litter that you have specified now, the only reason why we didn't want a litter at that time was a planned holiday trip. Both dogs were registered and approved for breeding, unrelated, old enough, perfectly healthy with good hip/elbow scores, and meant for each other. But, nevertheless, we brought the male to a boarding kennel for the time of the dam's heat and paid not little for his care. Three weeks later, I asked the manager of the dog boarding kennel to bring him back home, because my car had broken down on that day, but instead of first ringing the bell to notify me that they had arived, he first opened the back gate and let Brutus run into the backyard, not knowing that Envy was running free. We then cancelled our holiday trip. So, are you happier now? - Am I an irresponsible breeder and a horribly bad person because I didn't put chains and locks and warning signs on our back gate? I recommend you enquire about some details in future first, before you attack people out of some weird destructive mood. By the way, the dam and her pups in question here, on this thread, have been vet checked yesterday and found perfectly healthy. Nevertheless, an appointment has been arranged with a reproduction specialist (John) for next Monday, also to examine one of the (now frozen) pups to identify the cause of death. With that, I believe that we can close this thread now. Further comments on or off topic please by private mail directed to me only - as "thanks" to Minimax all of you now have direct access to my phone and email. Thank you and goodbye!

I just can't help it, have to answer once again. Most of you are talking like metropolitan citizens. You are not taking into perspective the lifestyle in the countryside, far away from the big cities. In our area, there is one (1) vet on call during the night within a radius of 100 km. I and the bitch's owner live only 20 km apart and use the same vet, but I get a breeder's discount, that's why I do all the calls. I kept in close touch with the first-time breeder over the phone last night. If I hadn't children and if there was someone else to look after them at night, I would have been there in person. Both of us, I and the first-time breeder, haven't slept a minute last night, but attended the birth. I also inquired yesterday afternoon in our vet clinic who would be on duty and I made the vet on duty aware that there is a certain possibility that she might get an emergency call in the middle of the night. She is not a reproduction specialist, but a young lady from Ireland, just graduated from uni and enjoying an exciting Aussie experience. It costs about $300 per hour to call her out in the middle of the night, and the clinic's safety policy is that the patient must come to the clinic, and house visits can be made in very exceptional cases only. Anyway, we still would have called the vet and would have gone for the drive with the birthing bitch if she had shown any signs of suffering or despair. But the mother was very relaxed and, according to her owner, didn't even appear like being in pain while she pushed the dead puppies out. The reason why I asked on an Internet forum was, because I wanted to know whether anyone here knows what BLACK GUMS AND A BLACK TONGUE could possibly mean in such a dead puppy. In our breed, puppies generally have pink gums and tongues when born. I thought someone here on the forum would know about this particular feature and point me to the right direction, why those puppies died. In the past, I have got many amazing answers from some incredible people on Internet forums, in Australia and internationally, including things which my vets didn't know and which, upon further examination, proved right.

Some people are very quick with their judgments, aren't they? For your information, I am a registered breeder and have bred dogs for 25 years. And yes, it was the bitch with the weird heat cycle, and she was vet checked twice, once before mating and then short before the end of her pregnancy (by my vet, that's why this vet was the best one to talk to, and I fully trust her expertise), and no health fault was found. And of course, I was very concerned when I heard about the dead puppies. After this, I already suggested to my friends not to breed with their bitch any more. Sad things happen, and vets cannot always help, or predict what will or could happen. With that, I guess we can close this discussion. Thanks again for all constructive and well-meant reactions. P.S.: And regarding the litter that someone who has no idea of the circumstances calls an "oops" litter - there was no "oops" at all. The litter was planned, well considered and the best option available at that time. With the next approved stud dog registered with your club living some 1000km far away and impossibility to travel whenever you want some people have to find more practical solutions, be it within or outside of specific clubs. I believe it is very rude to call everyone who does not join a specific club and stick together with its members only, a BYB. I not supporting such a two-class society. Ethics are not a matter of club memberships, and healthy good quality puppies neither. But I'm leaving this discussion now, as I see that it is sadly attracting some nasties.

I hope so, too. I will definitely recommend a vet check in the next few days. Better once too many than one too few. Thanks once again for all your concern and your advice.

The problem has been resolved, thank you for your answers - I actually just called my own vet (I am a breeder and have faster and cheaper access to vets than my mentoree) and my vet said that it can be quite 'normal' especially in large breeds that they have one or a few stillborn puppies in their litters, and also that birth giving can take quite a long time. (As far as I know the young mother hasn't had any contractions any more for the last two+ hours, so it seems to be over). "As long as the bitch behaves normally and does not show any signs of distress and will eat well and not have any unusual discharge from her vulva in the next few days, which needs to be monitored carefully," the vet says, "there is no need for medical action."

Hello, I hope someone can give fast advice: A friend just called me - her White Shepherd girl is just in the process of giving birth to her first puppies. The first one was born fully developed but dead, last night short after 9pm. Between midnight and noon, three healthy living puppies were born, plus 3 dead ones, who were obviously not fully developed and were covered in a black substance, especially their mouths and tongues were totally black (not light pink as it should be) and the black colour was inside the gums and flesh, couldn't be washed off like from the coat. Does anyone have an idea what that could be? My friend doesn't want to call the vet yet, as there may be some more pups to come and she doesn't want to interrupt the natural process. It is their first litter. I hope that someone may have a quick answer!?

Thanks a lot for your information and advice. I'll talk to the owner and see what I can do.

She's 3 years old and was bought from someone else only a few months ago. We don't know anything about her previous seasons, only that she hasn't had any puppies yet. She's actually not mine, but only in my temporary care, and her current owner wants to have puppies with her and my stud dog. I just wonder whether it is safe for her to be mated, or whether she could have a serious health problem. As I said, I was with her at the vet's only 2 weeks ago, and the vet found her healthy - but it was just an appointment for a booster vaccination. What surprised me was that although she had just stopped bleeding at that time, when I introduced her to my young stud, he totally ignored her - I mean he just played with her nicely and peacefully, but didn't show any sexual interest. I must say that he has never mated before, never had the chance to even try. The bitch's owner wants to try it again. What I have read out of the other forum's posts is that she was not really in heat the first time at all, but the 'real' heat has come now. My plan is that I will put the pair together again in a couple of days and see what happens. However, under no circumstances I want to make a sick dog-girl pregnant!

"Split heat" was a good catch word, thanks. I found a lot of interesting testimonials about "split heat" on this site: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=3587&pagen=1 It doesn't seemto be that uncommon.

My shepherd bitch was bleeding and obviously in heat less than one month ago. She was not mated. Today, she swoll up and started bleeding again! Can she possibly be in heat again? She was vet-checked and revaccinated only 2 weeks ago (just after she stopped bleeding) and the vet didn't find any indications of a disease. She is in perfect shape. What do you think? I'm actually thinking about mating her now, IF she really is in heat, as the timing would be much better than a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks, no worries!

Excuse me, I am new to the Australian dog breeding/showing world. What does "main register" and "limited register" mean?

Hey ... I only stumbled a bit over the one word "unfortunately". I wish to make clear that I do breed according to the Swiss standard, not the current German Shepherd one, and I bet that all our progeny would receive FCI papers if they were exported overseas. I strongly oppose to calling my shepherds "German" Shepherds, but I know the ANKC doesn't want us to call Aussie-bred dogs "Swiss", so I just call them "White Shepherd Dogs", until ANKC finds a better way of assessment. I have no problem with that, but I want to stress that my "produce" is most certainly not "unfortunate" in terms of genetic quality.

I know, I am a member of this club One day, we'll travel to the show, too, it's on our agenda! And as far as I know they doesn't make any difference for that show whether a dog is desexed or entire, it's just beauty, health and temperament that counts.

Liz, I am indeed surprised that neutered dogs can't be shown just as the entire ones in Australia! Sorry to be so little informed. In Europe, it doesn't make any real difference. Okay, there are two separate classes/groups, but both classes are about equally strong and well attended, and every breeder will check the results of the neutered dogs and their pedigrees just as cautiously as the results of the active breeders. As to my breed, the White Shepherd Dog, I believe there is a huge confusion and irritation going on inside the ANKCA. I haven't followed the details of the decade-long discussion, but I know that my (one) breeding bitch, who was bred here (though originating from mainly European and American ancestors) would immediately get FCI papers as a purebred "Berger Suisse Blanc" (White Swiss Shepherd) if I took her to Europe, and if I would then bring her back to Autralia, she would be the 5th registered dog of this only recently recognised breed in this country. However, I am certainly not going to expose my dog to 40 hours flight and a month in quarantine just to get such a stupid piece of paper! I rather hope the ANKCA will some day recognise this breed just as every other country outside of Australia did, irrespective of where they were born. Breed info for the less informed: The Berger Suisse Blanc (White Swiss Shepherd) is an internationally recognised breed which is distinct from the German Shepherd, although it to 100% originates from the (old-style) German Shepherd and never was mixed with another breed. The Australian breeders of the "White Shepherd" are, however, not allowed to use the attribute "Swiss", but they are forced to classify their dogs as "German Shepherds" while all German Shepherd Clubs all over the world consider the white colour as a disqualification and an undesirable feature in any German shepherd; in fact, for decades, German Shepherd breeders used to cull any puppy that was born white! For 50 or 60 years, rescuers all over the world would collect those unwanted WHITE puppies and pure-breed them in White only, while clearly disregarding any stupid new ideas such as that a real German Shepherd should have a short curved back! They kept breeding the old "healthy" style of dogs. Switzerland was the first country that recognised the White Shepherds as an independent breed still in the last century. Sadly, the Australian dog breeder's governing body has not followed the example of the Swiss and the international FCI bodies. I - and all the other White Shepherd breeders in Australia - still hope they will change their opinion, so we can claim equal right to our beautiful dogs as everyone else does, too. Currently, only imported White Shepherds with FCI papers are admitted to Australian dog shows. As far as I know, 4 (four) of them have been imported to Australia already, but noone knows whether they are just pets ... one of them, as I know, has been offered as a stud, but can't find a matching female counterpart ... and the whole importing procedure costs about $ 16,000 per dog, not to mention the dog's suffering during transport and in the quarantine cage. And you can really believe me: The Aussie-bred White Shepherds do not look or behave in any way different from the German, US or Swiss-bred ones!

... with two clauses. The first being that, until the pup turned seven moths old, the person leasing the pup could present me with a desexing certificate and the ownership of the pup would automatically transfer to them and we would reimburse the new puppy owner for the cost of the desexing. The second being that if no desexing certificate could be supplied by the time the pup turned seven moths old, the lease was over and the pup must be returned within seven days. On the contract, we changed "purchase price" to "lease fee". Never had to have a pup returned. Wow, Pup E Dog, this is an excellent idea! I might do that, too. However, I would put the age up to 12-18 months, at least for my (large) breed, because it is not possible to assess the dog's value for a breeding program (such as do reliable hip scores) prior to that, and in our breed we have an extremely narrow gene pool in Australia, so future breeders are usually encouraged not pushed back, but we definitely only want the right people with the right dogs to join the breeding programs. Is there a chance to get hold of a template of your "Lease Agreement", Pup E Dog? You are very welcome to send it to me by private mail, if you are willing to help and possibly want to discuss the issue even further on a private basis.

Contents by paragraphs: 1. Early desexing 2. $$$ Refund to buyer for desexing - and why I like this idea 3. Showing of desexed dogs 4. The biggest problem with Australian puppy buyers Wow! This is indeed a VERY busy forum! Thank you for all your many answers to my questions. I don't know how to handle the "multiquote" option here, but on page 2 Steve displayed some links in opposition to early desexing, which I found very worthwhile checking out. Thank you, Steve. Especially the claim that early desexing increases the risk of hip dysplaisia by 70% made me reconsider - though I would like to see some more proof for this claim. Hips and joints in general are about the greatest health problem there is in my chosen breed - the White Shepherd Dog - and as it seems in other large breeds, too. Right underneath, on page 2, a lady breeder brought up the idea to offer $100 refund against proof of desexing, which I love and actually already did in the past, too. However, out of 4 puppy buyers who got that contract (that was our 2nd litter) only one claimed her $100 back. I don't know what happened to the others. Therefore, I guess, in a breed where a puppy usually costs about $1,000 and desexing of an adult costs in excess of $300, I will have to offer a higher incentive, such as a $300 refund. I will most likely put this option into practice, with the extension that I will pay $300 back not only upon proof of desexing (within 16 months of age), but also, at the buyer's choice, as my contribution to hip & elbow X-ray scoring, which is about the same price (between $310 and $650 depending which vet you use). This is because I have no problem with supporting future breeding with my progeny - but I want to make sure it is done the right way. I am happy to give the buyer the option to EITHER keep the dog as a pet only, OR to breed responsibly and ethically which, to me, means that only perfectly healthy (i.e. thoroughly health-tested) and well looked after dogs are to be used in breeding programs. On pages 3 and 4, several people mentioned that if a dog is desexed he/she cannot be shown in Australia ... this came as a surprise to me! Is that really so? Why should that matter? A desexed show-winner can still serve as a perfect reference for ancestors, siblings or progeny that are used in breeding programs, so why should there be a restriction to their showing capacity? However, I must admit that I am not familiar with dog showing in Australia. I used to show my White Shepherd Dog in Germany and all over Europe, but this is long ago. Sadly, my chosen breed is not accepted at Australian dog shows, so I do without showing here. My Australian showing experience is limited to cats - I also breed the beautiful Russian Cat, and in Australian cat breeders' circles, early desexing at the source (i.e. before selling a kiten) is common practice. The reason why I got on this forum is that I really want to find safe and secure homes for my current seven White Shepherd puppies who are only 3 weeks old now! I care very much about them, and I do worry about their future lives. I have heard horror stories of puppy farms and cruel backyard breeders, and my experience from following the life stories of our previous 2 litters here in Australia was not best either ... Tomorrow morning I'll take off with my little kid (I'm a single mother) at 5 am in the morning to drive 1,600km through the Australian Outback over the weekend in 38 degrees expected heat, with no working air-conditioning in our 25 year old car, in order to pick up a now 3 year old White Shepherd Dog boy from an RSPCA animal shelter far out in NSW. He was from our very first litter and, two days ago, he was surrendered there undesexed by my previous puppy buyers! My only good luck is that I had him microchipped before I sold him three years ago. Only so, he could find his way back home to me! Already then, 3 years ago, those people signed a paper in which they promised that they will have him desexed and not pass him on before offering him back to me first, and I thought I could trust them because they both were doctors and paid all the money upfront with no hesitation and the way they talked felt warm and loving, but they obviously did not care anyway. That's why I have so little trust in people signing contracts here in Australia. However, I believe, a $300 refund offer could have some real impact and give my pups some tangible security - at least, I hope so! Thanks, once again, for your many contributions. If you miss me here in the next two days, well, you know where I am. I only hope our car won't break down. I will have heaps of water on board!

I will have my current and future puppies desexed before I sell them, i.e. at an age of 10-12 weeks or "as soon as the balls drop". Vets who say you must wait longer are following an antiquated school and have obviously missed out on bringing their educational standard up to date. Desexing contracts usually prove useless, as going to court for such a cause will cost ten or twenty time more than the puppy price and hardly anyone will go to court - but many will be very angry. Out of 13 puppies that I have sold with such contracts, I can prove that at least 4 contracts were broken. I recently had to deal with 2 buyers of second-generation puppies with severe joint problems whose mother was never hip-scored and was never meant for breeding, and was obviously mated to some neighbour dog who happened to look like the same breed. One of the puppies was surrendered to an animal shelter, because the "breeder" wouldn't take the sick puppy back but instead referred to the grandmother's breeder (me) as proof that the puppies had a 'perfectly healthy pedigree' background; the other puppy is undergoing expensive treatment. As a breeder, you can't rely on contracts, and you can't rely on the buyer's honesty, ethics or even common sense, and if your puppy buyers do the wrong thing it reflects back to you and can forever damage your good reputation. For the sake of the future generations of our dogs, please make sure that only suitable dogs are bred with by suitable people, and have all other pups desexed right at the source of origin! Desexing will not damage the dog in any way; early desexing is safe and common nowadays, and much cheaper if organised by the breeder at an early age than later; and desexing has heaps of benefits not only for the dog, but most importantly also for the owner. I believe that only registered ethical breeders should be allowed to obtain an undesexed dog. This has become common practice in the Australian cat breeding world already, and I hope that the dog breeding world will follow.