Red Fox

Has she been vaccinated recently? Could be a reaction..

Hi SBT101 The vegies should be much, much smaller than when you grate them -they should be almost liquid. If you can do this it should be impossible for anything to be picked out ;) Puggy puggy has a fantastic recipe for vegie slops that has been posted in one of the threads here before -not sure where it is but I'm sure that if you PM her she could point you in the right direction... *sp

;) Kei doesn't like liver either and will pick it out given the chance so I put it in the rocket bender, whiz it into a paste and then mix it all in with his roo mince, vegies and yogurt (and a scoop of Sachas Blend to hide the taste a bit). Works well With your vegie mix do you blend it into a really fine mush? That way they can't pick anything out. If you are looking for some good info on raw feeding try the Dr Billinhurst BARF books. I found them really useful when I was starting out. Sounds like there would be a lot of helpful info in this thread too, but I was too lazy to read it all

I use Sachas Blend for the cat who has severe arthritis (about $46 a tub from vet-n-pet direct from memory) and I pop little a bit (probably about half the recommended dose for his weight) in Kei's dinner 3 or 4 times a week. He seems to like it and it can't hurt him. I mentioned it to Kei's breeder a few weeks back and she agreed that it's fantastic stuff and will do him no harm. He also gets Melrose Omega 3 pet oil in his vegie slops and the occasional dose of fish oil and vitamin E

^What PF said ^ It unreasonable to expect large dogs to behave no matter what but let small dogs get away with aggressive behaviour simply because they can do less damage. I think that half the problem is that owners of large dogs seem to be aware of this where-as many your average small dog owner can't see the problem. It's the same thing as the mother who sees her unruley toddler as a 'little angel' whilst he runs around the resturant squealing, smearing food everywhere and disturbing other diners (Oh yes, I used to work in hospitality!). Whereas the mother of the 13 and 15 year old 2 tables down would never dream of letting her 2 do the same thing because it would be simply deemed as unacceptable and she would be thrown out. Had ALL the kids been well behaved it would have been a much more pleasant experience for everyone. Unfortunately society doesn't always see it that way and 'cute' and 'harmless' seems to = the ability to get away with murder

Kei goes off his breakfast occasionally. There's normally nothing wrong with him, he's just being picky or he's not really hungry. Often he's had a big meal the night before too If he doesn't eat I just pick up his food and put it away then offer him a smaller meal that night. If he's hungry he WILL eat. If there are other signs such as vomitting or diarrhea then off to the vet though.

This is similar to what I did with Kei only I used a pen instead of a crate. (Crate at night time though). For the first week or two he was either in the pen or right by my side. If I was outside he might spend an hour or two out in the yard with me or if I was sitting down watch TV same thing. But if he was out of the pen he was not out of my sight, and was taken out to the toilet avery 1-2 hours then praised and treated when he went. I would not say that he spent ALL his time in the pen and most of what he did spend in there was done sleeping. I always made time for play and short training sessions but not at toilet time -that ALWAYS came first. Gradually I allowed him longer periods on his own until he started to tell me when he wanted to go out on by himself. It took about 6 weeks until I could trust him not to pee on the carpet though . As for night time- I took him out to toilet before bed and then only took him outside again if he woke up on his own, then straight back to sleep again

Damn, Queensland is on the other side of the country from me! When are you coming to SA Steve?

Appologies for the late reply, we have been at the vets He very rarely barks Kelpie-i, normally just pulls/lunges, play-bows and pounces around. If and when he does bark they are short (but not what I would call sharp) single barks, not low and growly but not extremely high pitched either -somewhere in the middle leaning towards the high side I guess?? He seems to only bark if trying to get the other dogs attention. The same type of bark that he would give occasionally during play. I have heard/seen him give off a low unsure bark when strangers have entered our property, but the bark he gives off to other dogs (when he does) is very different. He has never growled or bared his teeth at another dog. Does that make sense? Sorry if I'm not very helpful *eta Just went back and re-read my posts and realised that in my innitial post I said that Kei was 'screaming and lunging' towards the other dog. This was probably not the best way to describe it though as the 'scream' was more of a strangled bark/gag as his his martingale was tightening around his neck while he pulled. Hope that helps to make things clearer

Yes. That is often what dogs do to tell another dog to rack off, lunge and bark. I can't really tell what Kei was doing from what was described, but this is usually what it's all about. It's a very dry description, describing the end result (other dog racks off, or is dragged off, or dog who instigates is removed). I agree Staranais, doesn't sound like distance increasing behaviour judging by the OP's initial post. Here she writes that her dog was able to walk past other dogs without a problem. Fear issues which result in distance increasing behaviours do not happen overnight. ETA....that is if no major traumatic episode has occurred since. Sorry, I should probably clarify. When Kei 'lunges/pulls' towards other dogs he does it out of excitment and the urge to play, not aggressive in any way I can't explain why he can walk past some dogs with no reaction and pounces about like an idiot with others. But it seems to me that if the other dog is showing interest in him, especially from a distance where he has time to build up excitement then his behaviour seems to escalate and he goes over his threshold. The chain seems to have decreased this behaviour dramatically though. Hope that makes sense ;)

Maybe close him in there when he is sleeping and see how he goes. Or give him a Kong to keep him occupied when he is closed in. If Boof sees his crate as 'his' area he should be fairly calm about having the door closed anyway

Thanks Nekhbet I must admit that I was a little reluctant to use the check chain. You need only google it to see how many horror stories/scare tactics there are out there Trachea damage scares the hell out of me, as does simply damaging the relationship I have with my dog. So I did make sure that I was shown how to fit and use the chain correctly by someone with a fair amount of experience before I even attempted to walk him on it. Aidan- Thanks for all the info you have provided in this thread. I've put a lot of effort into teaching Kei to walk on a loose leash with a flat/martingale collar and I would never put him on a check chain if I didn't have that foundation there first. I've also taken care to build up distractions gradually when using the check chain, at this stage I would never take him into an area (for example an obedience class) where I thought that he would exceed his threshold and cause himself damage by lunging on the end of the leash. I would also never correct him (or allow him to correct himself) for not following a command that he didn't understand. Yes, it is possible that he has been inadvertently conditioned to lunge to the end of the leash on seeing another dog. It's something that i have tried to avoid though and one of the reasons why we stopped attending obedience for the time being. Today Kei is having a sedation to have some stiches removed so cannot have any food. Normally I take treats out with me 'just in case' but obviously that wasn't going to happen today so i took him out with the check chain alone and only pats and praise to re-enforce his good behaviour. I'm proud to say that even though we came across 4 other dogs- the first pulling and lunging on its lead towards him from the opposite side of the road (small breed), the second bouncing around behind a fence near the walkway, the third (a little dog) jumping up and sitting on the brick fence of his yard as we walked past(!) and the last, a Goldie, sitting calmly next to his owner as we passed by not even a metre away from us- we passed them all with no major incidents ;) I only had to give him a light correction (maybe a 3 on a scale of 10) followed by a heel command when he pulled toward the first little dog, he showed a little interest in the dog behind the fence but no pulling and completely ignored the other two. To say I'm happy with that is an understatement The chain might not be a cure all for everybody, and I can't say that I'm entirely comfortable using it yet. But by seeing such a huge improvement in such a short period of time with very low level corrections my confidence in using it is growing and I believe that this is making things less stressful for both me and my dog. Would I feel more comfortable using a prong collar? Well yes, after a fair bit of research I do feel that they are a safer option. But until I can find someone to fit one correctly and show me how to use it I will stick to the chain. There seems to be a lot of debate around between purely possitive trainers and those that use a balance of corrections and rewards. I'm fast learninig that the second option is going to be more suitable for me. It's also the way I parent too. If I only rewarded my 10 year old when he did something that I liked and ignored him when he broke the rules I would have a truely unruly child. But I wouldn't smack him around the head for not being able to do something that he didn't understand either

Thanks Staranais There is no doubt that I will persist with Kei's training until I find a method that works for him. As a first time dog owner positive based training is really appealing -no stress to the dog and less chance of making an irreversable mistake has been rammed down my throat since the day we started puppy school. I have constantly been told that check chains are cruel (and prongs are the DEVIL!!) and a head halter is a much safer option for a big dog (at obedience and puppy classes, not here at DOL). I don't agree with this at all and had to really stand my ground on this issue at obedience. After using the check chain for around a week now and seeing a huge improvement in Kei's behaviour I've realised that he is the type of dog who is going to need a little bit of re-enforcement and correction to be the best that he can be. Obviously we still have a long way to go and a lot to learn but I believe that we will get there

I've not used green lipped mussels as treats but I do use Sasha's Blend (which is essentialy the same thing ) Both the cat and the dog love the taste of Sasha's blend, it has a really fishy smell. Polar Paws do the dried Green lipped mussels. You can buy them fro Vet-n-pet direct: http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/Products/T...s-Rewards/POLAD

Thanks PF. I do try and move away when I can and yes it does make things MUCH easier ;) . The only time I ask for a sit is if Kei is pulling towards the other dog and I have no-where to go ie, if we're on a narrow path with the other dog coming towards us as was the case the other day or there is another dog walking in front of us in the same direction. The reason i do this is I find that it's much easier for me to get him into a sit and keep his attention than to try and walk with him pulling on the leash. If he doesn't notice the other dog until last minute I try to keep his focus on me by either using food or my voice and just keep on walking which seems to work okay, but as you said it's when he can see the other dog coming and has time to build up the excitement that he really becomes a handful! Some good news though- I have been using the check chain for the past couple of days and there is a definate improvement in his behaviour whilst he is wearing it. Yesterday we encountered 4 small dogs running around on the lawns as we came around the corner (2 off leash!). Each time Kei gave any sign of lunging towards them I gave him a quick 'pop' on the chain followed by either a sit or heel command in a happy voice. It took a bit of patience and a few corrections but he got the idea fairly quickly and I was able to control him and regain his focus. Though the check chain is very new to me and I still feel a little uncomfortable using it, it seems that a few corrections may be exactly what he needs at this time.

I would think that an active healthy puppy with plently of energy would be much easier to train than a lethargic puppy? Seems a bit silly to me, I think I would avoid this 'trainer' like the plague. So raw meat make them savage hey What about those of us who use raw meat for training then? Bad bad owners ;)

Thanks for the link Diablo. I'll shoot you a PM shortly. I actually have a very strong interest in Schutzhund, it is something I would love to train in in the future and appeals to me MUCH more than 'traditional' type obedience which seems to be very repetitive -though I thought a Ridgie would be the wrong breed for Schutzhund? I guess not Unfortunately I'm 350kms out of Adelaide which makes it a bit difficult to commit to training there. Kharn, I too have had that experience at obedience. I find that I have to have a good distance between us and the other dogs to get any form of focus out of Kei, otherwise it is just pointless. And given that a lot of the exercises involve being in very close range, ie weaving around the other dogs, it makes the whole experience extremely frustrating.

^^ ^^ I used to mix the kibble with natural yogurt and stuff it in the Kong for Kei as a puppy. Or a bit of cheese spread smeared around the inside with some kibble (it sticks to the spread). You can use anything you like really Tug-a-jugs are good toys to leave a puppy alone with too. They are pretty indestructable and because the puppy can both see and smell the treats it keeps them busy trying to get them out. I wouldn't be leaving a baby puppy alone with chicken wings just incase he tried to swallow them. Same goes for pigs ears. Larger recreational bones that the puppy can't consume (ie marrow bones) would be okay though. Just make sure there are no sharp bits. I do occasionally leave Kei alone with wings or necks stuffed into a Kong, however they are very hard to get out -he will mostly keep himself busy by throwing the Kong around and trying to dislodge the bone, then pull a little bit out, nibble a little bit off and go at it again - however he is older and is a chewer so I feel pretty safe doing so. *eta- If you want to freeze your Kongs I found that the easiest way to do so is to stand them upside down in a mug. Easy to stuff that way and they don't fall over in the freezer

I was going to suggest Mark, although I'm not sure I remember what his stance is on the PPCollar. His phone number is 1300 255 364 Thanks Erny. I think I might give him a call in a couple of weeks (when school goes back and all is calm again) and have a chat with him.

Thanks Nekhbet, I will start using the check chain on all walks and see how we go. To be fair, Kei does walk well on leash 99% of the time. It is only when we encounter other dogs in close range that we have dramas. Erny, can you suggest anyone in SA who could give me a bit of instuction on how to fit and use a prong collar? To be honest I would love to try one with Kei. I think I would feel more comfortable with using prong as opposed to the chain if I could have some proper instruction. I did ask about them at obedience earlier this year and was told that they are 'cruel' and 'illegal' and i was NEVER to use one on my dog. Of course I do not agree with that at all but could not see the point in pushing the argument further in that situation. I know Steve (K9 Force) sells prongs but he is obviously a long way away from me. What about Mark Singer (sp?). I've read a few good things about him on the forums here. Still a few hour drive away from where I live but I'm sure I could make the trip if need be. Does anyone have any contact details for him?

Thanks sas and persephone :D I have learnt my lesson with the leash and will be more careful how I hold it in future. Silly thing is that my leash has 2 handles, including one at a traffic leash length that I can easily grab, silly me . Sas, I'm not comfortable with head halters. I have tried once and never again. BUT, I have over the past week experimented with walking Kei on a check chain which is a first for me. So far we have had very good results. I have only used very light corrections on him when need be and have noticed that he seems quite comfortable wearing it and will walk close to me. Though we have'nt encountered any other dogs on our check chain walks yet so I can't say how how would react on it in that situation -my fear is that he would strangle himself. *eta, he was NOT wearing the check chain yesterday. I do try very hard not to place him in situations where he will exceed his threshold (like yesterday ). It's just such a horrible feeling to have other people glaring at me like I'm the devil. Especially when I have put in so much hard work with him. I know it's not his fault, he's still young and excitable and then I feel terrible for putting him in that situation in the first place. Still, it's nice to know that I'm not alone in my 'walk of shame' BTW, if anyone can offer some tips on the correct way to walk a dog on a check chain they would be greatly appreciated :D I have been shown how to check the dog correctly and always make sure that he is walking on a loose leash on my left side when wearing it. Is there anything else I should know?

Ah, so there's hope then. Ruby sounds like Kei -lightening fast recall one day, selective deafness the next. Obedience class is also a nightmare for us as all he wants to do is play with the other dogs and goes into complete overdrive. We haven't been for 3 months due to OH working nights. I'd dearly love to return now the work scedule has changed and the nights are getting warmer. Though Kei is 10kg heavier now, much stronger and just as excitable. I think we may be sitting on the sidelines for the first few weeks, it may be all the excitement that he can bare!

Thanks Tilly it's good to know I'm not the only one. That does sound painful though! When i read back through my post it did seem pretty funny. Though I can tell you at the time it was most certainly not :D Kei is the perfect angel when we visit my Mum though. He just LOVES to show her how obedient he is. Tis just out in public that he becomes a monster :p

I've been working so hard with Kei. From the day he came home I have tried to be consistant and keep training fun and exciting for him. He is a very fast learner and over the past few months I felt that we were making fantastic progress together. But all of a sudden it's like we are going backwards :D . He bores easily, gets distracted at the mere sound of another dog barking, training toys/treats that were soooo exciting a month ago are now so so (even roast chicken!). I'm thinking that the best thing I can do is go back to basics with very short, very fun training sessions, work on rebuilding his focus and just ride this out. But I'm wondering, is it normal for dogs to start pushing the boundaries at a certain age, kind of like human teenagers do? He's 12 months old now. Cut to todays mishap as I very much need to vent- Calmly walking along, all going well when I see an off lead dog bounding towards us. Owner calls dog back and leashes it then continues to walk towards us. By this stage Kei is VERY excited so I walk him over to the grass at the side of the path and ask him to sit so that the other dog can pass. All is going well, Kei is siting, I have a nice tight grip on the leash (It's wrapped around my hand so that he must sit close to me and cannot go lunging out in front) When all of a sudden Kei decides to turn and pull himself between my legs! So there I am, hand stuck tight between my legs with a 40kg dog pulling the other way Couldn't let go of the leash, couldn't get my leg over it, Kei is lunging and screaming at the other dog, other dog is lunging at him very excited too (but not going backwards like me!) and other owner is saying BAD DOG BAD DOG! (not sure whether she was talking to her dog or mine - my head was by then between my legs. Meanwhile the couple sitting on the park bench are glaring at us and my very helpful 10 year old is asking me why Kei isn't better trained (NOT helpful!). I eventually ended up on my arse, regained control and we all walked home very quitely with me trying not to burst into tears :p Please tell me it gets better. Last weekend we passed 4 dogs on our walk, all in close range and all without episode. Today I could have crawled in a hole and died of embarassment :p

Thanks Erny