yellowgirl

Thanks Oonga! . I've posted some pics of the shop.... http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=178421 It's still very much in the beginning stages but I'm really happy to be giving it a go . The dogs are just loving coming to the shop with me and meeting the customers ;) . Luckily they are healthy and happy and are a great advertisement for preservative-free food xxx

Hi Atua This amount fed my two dogs for about 3 weeks. They have bones too. Sarge weighs 6kg and Madeline is 7kg. I'd make up a large batch and freeze it in smaller bags. I use the past tense because since opening my preservative-free pet food store I haven't made up this particular batch. They now have 'Fido's Formula' which is what I make up at the shop. It's a mix of chicken, beef & lamb, heart, liver, fish, rolled oats, veggies, garlic and a few other yummy things . It's working really well for them and I'm getting excellent feedback from customers too If you're planning on switching to raw for your dogs, I'd say just go for it! Don't worry too much about doing it gradually. Just add some veggies, fish, etc to their mince and some lamb necks to chomp on and you'll be off to a great start Jo xx ETA - Oh, I forgot to add ... it looks like this thread is in pretty good hands these days :D . Keep it up guys. It's so great to see a thread where everyone is helping each other . And sharing the fun of feeding raw I don't have the time to post much lately, but I do try to at least check in most days. Love the pics too!

Most of us will be going the next week instead, on the 13th KPM can you change it in the pinned dates to confirm that it's been changed to the next week please

Hi MissLotus Yes, I mix everything together in a big batch and freeze it in smaller bags. The foods I've chosen are based on my own (ongoing) research. I'm hoping to come up with a recipe that provides the all recommended nutrition from the NRC guidelines http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=15&page=44 A few days ago, someone with way more experience and brain capacity than me in this area worked out the nutritional analysis for me, and I have just a couple more little tweaks to do I need to add a touch of kelp to increase the Iodine levels, use beef meats and offal (instead of lamb, etc) to increase the Zinc, and most importantly, change the olive oil to wheatgerm oil to get the necessary Vitamin E in there. Here's something I didn't know, and I think you guys would be interested also... If you include fish or other oils, then you must make sure there is vitamin E in the diet to counteract the free radicals that the dog produces when it processes the pufa in the oils. Vitamin E is necessary to protect the dog from the oxidative damage from the oils (thank you Staranais :p ). I use this site to look up the nutritional values of the ingredients http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ I recently discovered this one which is also helpful http://www.nutritiondata.com/ Thanks to some other helpful suggestions here, I'm also going to include the pumpkin seeds which contain good amounts of the zinc I needed, as well as heaps of other vitamins, minerals and amino acids . It seems that the skin of the pumpkin is also safe to eat, so I'll probably just be tossing the whole thing in the blender now! . The skin won't be very digestable though, it's more a testament to my laziness as opposed to being a vital nutritional ingredient. It would be a source of fibre I suppose... that sounds better than saying I'm a lazy cow who can't be bothered peeling a pumpkin!

Hi all . Sounds like everyone's having fun slicing, dicing, mashing, mincing and mixing! Anyone else notice that the more you look into it, the more research you do and the more feeding forums you join... the more your brain starts to feel like the minced offal that you're making for your dog?? I don't know how or why I end up making it so complicated for myself, I often feel that there could be a vital piece of information I might be missing ;) Anyhoo.... This is what I'm currently mixing up... :p 1kg minced chicken frames 1kg minced raw meat (turkey, beef, lamb, heart, etc) 1kg minced raw fresh veggies (carrot, pumpkin - including seeds, broccoli, etc) 3 eggs -whole, raw, including shell (minced) 1/2 bunch fresh parsley 200g liver 200g other organ (brain, lung, kidney, etc) 250g sardines 200g salmon 1 cup rolled oats level dessertspoon granulated garlic tablespoon olive oil wheatgerm oil We're still practising with various bones, but I've included the minced chicken frames for the time being to make sure they're getting enough calcium. I'm now using fresh veggies rather than the mixed frozen pack so I can choose the variety of veggies for each batch. Speaking of which... does anyone know an easy way to remove the skin from a raw pumpkin?? I don't know about everyone else, but I love getting my hands into the mix and blending it all together, and seeing all the nutritious goodies folding over each other. I find it very relaxing and therapeutic ETA- added wheatgerm oil and pumpkin seeds

Hi all I think I've just found the best dog feeding forum around! I won't post it here (DOL rules) but please PM me if you'd like the link. I still think that raw/natural is best for MY dogs, and the forum embraces all types of feeding based on the needs of the INDIVIDUAL dog, not one generic 'one size fits all' recipe. They approach it from a nutritional standpoint whether that be raw, cooked, commercial or a combination, and it's run by a highly respected canine nutritionist. I've spent most of the day looking through the files and had that lovely 'ah ha' moment where the confusion I've felt from reading other groups' (sometimes strict/fanatical) theories literally lifted away I'm now very happy and confident with what I'm doing for my own dogs :D Just wanted to share the love

Yep, that's all you need to do . It's hard because we've been conditioned for years and years by the pet food companies who use cheap grains as the base of their dry foods and have spent a lot of money to convince us that it's in our dogs best interest to feed this way. You're certainly not alone in finding it hard to make the transition and leave the marketing myths behind . No need to cook, RAW is the key . But they need to be mushed up. I felt confident that I was doing the right thing straight away. Once I got my brain around the fact that they don't need kibble, that was it! Questions are good . As you can see from my first post and the changes to the recipe along the way, it's great to have input from others who are on the same page. In the end, after weighing it all up, you do what you think is the best for your own dog based on all the info you have

Yay, friendly debate I think dogs do need the nutritional content of a small amount of vegies/grain because they eat the whole digestive tract of their prey. Green tripe (highly favoured by many prey-model feeders) is completely lined with the partially digested food of herbivores. Maybe that's the way Mother Nature intended for them to get the nutrients from veggies/grain. Mushing them up in a blender is a way to mimic the undigested veg in the prey's stomach lining. As most of us are not feeding green tripe, this seems like a good way to replace the nutrients the dogs are missing. Mech says the wolves pierce the stomach and scatter the contents and eat everything bar the actual bulk of vegetation from the stomach. But they eat all the rest. I'd love to get to the bottom of this conundrum one day I totally agree with you about pet food marketing. Brain washing based on false information at it's finest! ETA - heehee, snap Staranais

Awww, that face! . What an amazing difference! Kudos to you for taking care of this special boy Just read the Ruby story too

Haha, that's me too! I just stopped giving mine kibble and we had no problems at all ;)

Yes, that's one of the things the manufacturer is looking into for me. Does anyone know if irradiation applies to canned products? I thought it was mostly bagged foods. I'll need to look into it further.

The easiest way is probably just to watch the other end. If the poops come out hard and dry and are harder to pass, then reduce the bone a bit ;)

Thanks Staranais (fancy seeing you here ;) ) Yep, that's one of the things I'd like to know about the canned product too . If I go ahead with it, I'll be selling it online & local pick ups ;)

Hey, remember when I said this in post 166? ... ;) . I should have just stuck to that! ;)

I just make it up! ;)

Welcome to the thread oceanaussi . The idea is to keep it pretty simple ...not that we've necessarily acheived that here ;) but hey, we're all learning as we go along ;) . As a general guide you want the diet to contain mostly meat, some bones and some organs. As you can see, many of us also like to add minced veggies, fish, eggs and a few other goodies ;) . It's very much a personal choice and comes down to what suits you and your dog the best . Just keep the ratios for meat, bones and organs 'around about' 80/10/10. Your dog doesn't have to get every single nutrient in every single meal, you're looking more for a balanced overall diet :p

Not trying to nit pick in our lovely friendly thread. But remember that RMB aren't all bone. If we take the RMB as being 40% bone and 60% meat (which is pretty typical) then the overall diet is roughly about 73% meat, 10% organ, and 18% bone. I (personally) wouldn't give much less bone than that. ;) Just wondering about the pet mince though, as it's generally just a chicken carcass with almost no meat. I worked it out the opposite way, about 60% bone & 40% meat because of the amount of pet mince. Would that still be okay for the overall diet? * ETA - oh, and here's a little job for you all (please) ;) http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=174068

Hi all ;) , I've got some more homework for you Green Tripe has been mentioned and discussed several times in our feeding and nutrition chats, the only problem is that it's almost impossible to get in Australia due to health regulations ;) . A bit of info about it ... http://www.thedogbowl.com/PPF/category_ID/0_84/dogbowl.asp http://www.naturmix.com/pages/news_articles/mary_voss.html http://www.truecarnivores.com/greentripe.shtml I'm thinking about importing the Tripett cans and Petkind treats (both from the same company) into Australia. It's currently only available in America and Canada. Can you guys take a look at the websites below and let me know what you think of the products? I've been doing a fair bit of research and it seems that the only people who don't like it are the really strict prey-model feeders, mostly from overseas who wouldn't touch anything if it's presented in a can (and who are also able to source their own fresh green tripe). It gets rave reviews from others. I'm negotiating with the company at the moment, and hopefully will get some samples and more nutritional info soon. ;) Could you let me know... 1. what's your overall impression of the products? 2. would it be worth bringing them into Australia as an accessible green tripe source? 3. would you buy it? (I yes, why.. if no, why not?) :p Tripett ... http://www.tripett.com http://olivegreendog.com/tripett-green-beef-tripe.html PetKind Treats ... http://olivegreendog.com/petkind-tripe-treats.html I'm also interested in the Ziwipeak range. I received some samples of the air-dried food and my dogs went balistic over it! The canned food contains some green tripe and I'd be interested to hear from those of you who have tried the air-dried and/or the canned products. Ziwipeak ... http://www.ziwipeak.com/nzl/cuisinefamily.shtml Many thanks Jo

FTPO, it looks like your new plan has way too much bone in it especially if the pet mince is minced chicken frames. The ratio should be around 80% meat and 10% bone, at the moment yours looks closer to 50/50. I know I said I wasn't going to micro-manage, sometimes I can't help myself ;)

Ok, I couldn't help myself . As a general calculation you've got about 1.7kg of meat (plus your bones), 250g of organ and 50g of liver. Liver should be about 1/2 of the whole organ intake. Including the bones and other supplimental ingredients (veg, fish, etc) I'm assuming that the organ percentage does come to around 10%. So it might be an idea to increase the liver and decrease the other organs so they are both at around 150g each. xxx ETA.... Oh snap Laffi . Glad you replied because I just realised that I counted the lamb heart as an organ. So you're correct, the organ content is only a total of 100g, that needs to be in the range of around 400g (half of which should be liver), based on your total amount of meat, bones, etc being around 4kg.

Oh no . I hope he will be okay

FTPO, I had my pen, paper and calculator, and was adding everything up and calculating percentages. Then I thought, stuff it, it looks like you've got a large amount of meat, a few bones, a bit of offal and some fish, eggs and a few other nutritional yummies. . It looks good to me! ;) I've decided to call myself an 'Educated Fun Feeder' now, instead of a 'Regimented, Calculate it to within an inch of its life, It shouldn't have to be this complicated' type of Feeder'!! :D . I'm still going to make my own researched diet plan for my dogs because it works for them and I actually like to calculate, weigh, cut, mince and mix everything up (and pretend I'm a famous dog chef on tv ;) ), but I'm also loving this thread and the fact that we can share ideas and help each other find healthy (or scrap unhealthy) products, ingredients and food combos that work best for our own individual dogs . Oh, and speaking of finding healthy products, I'm making some inquiries on the green tripe front and working on getting some products into the country .

That Cannot be the name of the town!! . Did you miss out a vowel there somewhere? Back on topic... Sounds like a great find, congrats!

Hey Neats, glad to hear that Lucy is doing better without the VAN . Just wondering about the dry food... it does have a lot of cereals/grains listed after the initial meat. There could be just too many undigestable carbs in there for her system. Excerpt from http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts Not sure what eat gravey or soa protien are :D . The closest thing I could find to 'SOA' is Sucrose octa acetate, and I sure hope it's not that! If she keeps improving now that she's off the VAN, it may be that the extra grains in that product were tipping her system over the edge. If she still continues with the allergies, it might be worth thinking about a totally grain free kibble (or even a kibble free diet ). Fingers crossed that she keeps improving ;)

Yes, it did help Staranais! Not with solving my problem, but helpful for comparison purposes . My problem is that Sarge still won't eat bones properly, so I was looking up the calcium content of other foods to see what I could supplement with for the time being. The short story is that nothing has anywhere near as much calcium as a proper bone! :D . The annoying thing is that I knew that, but not by how much, so I couldn't help myself and had to do the comparisons! :D The highest raters were cheese (728mg), cereals (373mg), sardines (382mg), salmon (212mg), yoghurt (189mg), parsley (150mg), and spinach (100mg)... BUT, that's per 100g!!! So you'd need 400g of cheese or 36 tubs of yoghurt or 200 sprigs of parsley to equal the minimal 100g of chicken bone! Quite a waste of an evening I think! Definitely going to have to get some ground carcasses. I went to the shopping centre that Lenards was in yesterday and there was an Optus shop there instead! So, will have to hunt down some other pet mince with bone ;)