yellowgirl

Yes, Banshee was pretty bad when I first got her. I didn't realise the extent of her trauma until she bit the vet and a CC breeder. She had been understandably nervous at first, but she never bit me. At the time she met the family she wasn't nervous. Not sure if there's much of a distinction here but Banshee wasn't aggressive, she was a fear biter. She didn't show aggression to the point of biting, she showed fear to the point of biting. I don't believe it was genetic, it was a learned behaviour to protect herself in the past. I believe this to be the case as she was able to 'unlearn' certain behaviours. I'm not saying for one minute that that made her 100% 'safe' though, just that the behaviour had been modified to such a degree that there was a very noticable improvement in her reactions and I knew what kind of situation would result in a bad reaction. Absolutely agree I understand what you're saying You're right, a behaviourist is not always the solution, I'm glad I had that extra experience and assistance for Banshee though. Actually rescue is part of my business. I use my shop as a base to raise awareness, promote, support and fundraise for rescue groups and individual foster carers and rescuers. Most of my customers know I'm involved with fostering and rescue and they help contribute to our Charity Corner, Dog of the Month and donation tin. I don't 'screen' people at the shop, I may talk to them here as this is where most of my rescue talks begin. Screening would be done by the individual or group that I refer them to. Yes, the first time the family met Banshee was in the shop (just before closing time). That was just a meeting to see if they and Banshee liked each other. In the subsequent weeks there were many phone calls, emails, personal meetings and playdates. They also had a multi-page information sheet that they could read at their leisure detailing all of Banshee's history and current needs. I would never had allowed Banshee or the kids to be that situation if there was any sign from Banshee that she was uncomfortable. There was quite a lead up to Banshee actually playing with the kids on the floor where they got to know each other calmly first. There was an immediate bond with the family though (very similar to Banshee's intial bond with me) and Banshee was equally comfortable with all of them, although she seemed to have a special spot for the boy. ..... Now, don't think I'm posting just to disagree with you Greytmate, in general you're absolutely correct in what you're saying. I think that 'general' can't be applied to every single case equally though. Although I wasn't looking to rehome Banshee, a family who seemed to have everything Banshee needed fell for her and wanted her. And Banshee fell for them too. They knew all about her and I gave them as much information as possible to make sure they knew exactly what they were taking on. From our numerous discussions they seemed like a good family for her. In this particular situation it seemed the right thing for Banshee. None of us had any idea that Banshee wouldn't transition as well as we'd hoped. Maybe she just wanted to come home. But when the toileting issue arised and it became apparent that the family wasn't prepared to deal with that particular issue, she came back.

Sorry guys, last minute slacko has arrived . Count me in for the SS too. Now if whoever gets me isn't sure what to get, you can't go wrong with Cadbury Caramello! (the dogs already have everything ;) )

You're so right Poodlefan! Which is why I wanted to Banshee to live with them for at least a month before they totally commited to her. The 'aww' factor definitely needed to be considered. Look at what always happens in January/February when the novelty of Christmas puppies has worn off and dumping season begins . Absolutely! I'd still be interested to have the specific comments addressed though. Ovbiously I've missed something that could have made the transition better/easier for Banshee. Hmmm, I don't know about that one. I see DOL as a support system, a place to share experiences and help each other. I can't get the feedback I get from here from family or friends because they just don't 'get' how I feel about dogs, in particular my own crazy crew ;) . I know many online and real life friends I've met through DOL feel the same. The replies don't necessarily have to be informative or educational, sometimes just having people who understand what you're going through may be all that's needed . For me, extra input or advice is always appreciated as every experience should be an opportunity to learn something new and hopefully do things better in the future.

Thanks so much for your detailed reply Greytmate. I appreciate it. I agree with what you've said in terms of rehoming rescue dogs. Banshee's situation was slightly different to what you addressed though, in that due to her issues I wasn't actually advertising her for rehoming. Until this family came along, I had thought I she'd be staying with me. In regards to this specific situation, and the fact that Banshee was returned for toileting issues, not the issues that were originally of concern (ie fear biting, pancreatitis) could you tell me what you meant by the comments I've bolded? Could I have done anything different to transition her better or help the family with the issue?

I think you're right Trishm! Agreed. And in this case, Banshee was lucky that YG was ready to take her back if things didn't work out. Yes, maybe some things during Banshee's rescue and adoption could have been handled differently, but we all do what we can at the time and when we know it wasn't right, we do things differently next time. It's part of being human. Nobody really IS perfect, although there seem to be many out there who would like us to think otherwise. What matters is that the family who adopted Banshee will probably have a better idea of the kind of dog (and problems) that they are prepared to deal with next time. They've possibly come away with a good impression of "rescue" and will hopefully consider another rescue dog in the future. YG has done her best by Banshee and can happily sleep at night knowing this. And Banshee is happy because she is back with YG, who loves and understands her. Very sad that the situation didn't work, but it could have been a lot worse. You're right Ellz, we had a talk about it after Banshee was returned and they are more aware of what they can commit to now. We're both just glad that they didn't find Banshee in the paper or somewhere and that there was the offer of returning her if things didn't work out. I got nuthin' Yup, adoptions can't always work out, better that she comes back to you so you can find her a more suitable home. It just sounds like the wrong dog for them - I hope they find a dog that suits them better, and I hope your girl finds a better match too. I think my girl's got her match Staranais.. me! . I hadn't expected to find a home for her and was in the process of working out how I could make things work smoothly with all 4 dogs at home. It was a fluke that I caught up with the lady who then wanted to know more about Banshee, and things went from there. Unfortunately, despite all the work we put into it and how things ended up, you're right, she wasn't the right dog for them.

I know exactly what you are saying but the next one will probably be a completely different scenario. I think YG should join with a reputable rescue group for support for any future dogs in need. The issue with taking a fee when you are not part of a rescue group is that it is simply a sale and not an adoption. I must confess that when I independantly rescued I would get the vet work done and request that a donationation be made to my choice of shelter or rescue group. If I couldn't have managed the cost I would not have been able to do it at that time.Those dogs are all still chipped to me. There were only a few as I had moved to a new area and so left my old group behind but wanted to continue till I found a group I knew had the same ideals as myself. Plug here for SAFE PERTH...doing it well. I do honestly believe though that YG has absolutely done all she could possibly have done to ensure this was a good option for Banshee, if she had been with a reputable rescue group the same thing could have happened but it wouldn't be posted on here Maybe it was too soon, we don't know as we haven't met the dog. When a dog has a few issues it can sometimes be a tough call to get both the timing and the family right. Thanks Rusky I did have support from a few people who are involved in rescue groups here in SA. I continued independantly because that's what I usually do, I take the dog in, desex, etc, and then rehome it. I only ask reimbursement for the cost of the initial vet fees (desex, vacc, chipping, etc). There are several people here in SA who do independant rescue also. Banshee was a very special situation as I didn't have much choice when she was 'left' with me. I've had shy or timid dogs before but having a dog who was so scared she'd bite was a new one for me. That's why I asked for support from DOLers, SA rescue and foster people, trainers and behaviourists. I guess I use the words I'm used to 'rescue', 'foster', 'adoption', etc as I'm so used to using them in conversations with rescue groups Yep, you're right Aussielover, things happen . And when they do I update on DOL, have a good discussion about it, hopefully learn some lessons, and then get on with things I am not talking about you; I am talking about your constant criticism of Yellowgirl's rehoming of Banshee. I'm still open to hearing what else I might have done to have made things better or easier for Banshee and the family

Cheers Rasky I spoke to the family every two days and in the last week, the toileting was the issue. Even if it wasn't the only reason for her return, at least they realised that she wasn't right for them after all and returned her rather than putting her out the back or some other alternative that wouldn't have been in her best interest. Bottom line is that it turned out best for Banshee We can all learn from this if we look at what went wrong and how it could have been avoided. If people are going to make their stories public, they will get criticism as well as credit. That is to be expected on a public forum. We all have a right to put forward our views on rescue practices and ethics. Nobody is above criticism. There are some issues that make some dogs unsuitable for sale as pets. I am not surprised this poor dog was returned. The same scenario could easily happen again if the dog is offered for sale again, as the dog has some issues that affect its adoptability. Absolutely agree Greytmate! I'm more than open to opinions on how I could have managed this better. Just to clarify, could you tell me why you're 'not surprised this poor dog was returned'? By the way, Banshee was not 'offered for sale'. I state again, that had you read Banshee's story you would (or at least most people would) recognise that YG did EVERYTHING possible, she didn't hold back on all and any of Banshee's problems, she made the people go away and come back several times, she had the people have Banshee for overnight stays which apparently were wonderful. It is ridiculous that any criticism should be levelled here, only commiserations and and a lurking snigger (a good one ) that Banshee knows when she is onto a good thing . As for stressing the "sold", "for sale" side of it, well you are just trying to get one under the belt. Cheers MM . I think you're right about Banshee knowing when she's on to a good thing, I swear I heard that snigger last night ..... There is no doubt that Yellowgirl went to a lot of effort to get this dog into a home. That is not to say she did everything possible, as that would be ridiculous. Nobody could do everything possible. There hasn't been any criticism of her efforts to screen the home anyway. However there is now a situation where a family has been upset, a dog has been unsettled and confused, and Yellowgirl has a dog at home that her own dogs do not get along with. It isn't surprising that many people do not want a rescue dog when problems like this are being made public. I have read Banshee's story now, and believe that different decisions could have been made that could have avoided problems. This is a discussion forum. If no discussion is wanted, maybe Yellowgirl should have written her story in another forum. Commiserations are not as helpful as feedback as to what may have caused the problem to occur, it's up to Yellowgirl and everyone else reading whether to listen to criticism or ignore it. Some many learn something from this topic, many won't. Actually I am looking at it from the point of view of the new dog owner and from the legal point of view. The word "adopted' is the real euphemism, not the word "sold." I will continue to use the word where ever people are selling dogs, as pets or otherwise. I would rather you stay on topic and not talk about me. "different decisions could have been made that could have avoided problems" . Not being snarky at all, I'd be interested to know what else I should have done to help things work out better. Nope, happy to have a discussion right here on DOL. I'm very much open to constructive feedback, and happy to hear anything that may be of use for Banshee now or other foster dogs in the future. Just to clarify, Banshee was not advertised for sale, nor was I actively looking for a home for her. The details are in the original thread. As for 'selling' her, I did not want any money until the family were 100% sure that Banshee would be staying with them (would have been $300 to cover desexing, microchipping, vaccinations). I wanted them to take at least a month to be absolutely sure. As things turned out, no money was ever exchanged.

That's a joke If people had bothered to read the whole of Banshee's story before criticising yellowgirl, they would have known that the getting to know and adoption process took place over several weeks which included short stays with the family before the final adoption took place. People are too quick to "give advice" without even bothering to find out half the story. As for Chewbacca being concerned about ethics, well to be dealing that card in relation to Yellowgirl is really going much too far . Why people have to circle like sharks just because an adoption doesn't work out is beyond me. Thanks Mother Moocher, you're such a sweetie Let them circle, I've developed a bit of a thick skin these days. I've got nothing to hide, it's all in my threads I have found that it is really common for some people to agree to or want to take on dogs that have issues, possibly not understanding what impact those issues will have, or feeling as though the issues will be easily overcome. Unfortunately, these poor dogs are returned at a higher rate than other dogs that don't have any issues. Dogs are not returned because they have a couple of toilet accidents. Dogs are returned because the new owners are not prepared to put in the effort to help the dog settle into a toilet routine in its new home. They haven't bonded with the dog, for whatever reason. The toilet accidents may be blamed, but the real reason is often not admitted. I think its good that Banshee is going to stay with Yellowgirl instead of being sold again, but hope that her other dogs handle it ok. You're right there Greytmate, it would have taken time to help get her settled. If the family don't have the time though, I'd rather have her back. Often these things will turn out worse for the dog because the family gets so frustrated that things haven't worked out and the dog gets the blame and probably just chucked outside. Absolutely spot on Jed! Glad that things worked out for Nellie. You just never know Thanks Shaar It's only a bashing if I choose to let it get to me and see it that way though ... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as Greytmate said it's a public forum.

You guys can't be trusted for a minute while I'm away . I don't have internet at home, so I'm only on DOL while I'm here at the shop. Now, for some replies ... eta... this could take a while, I keep having too many quote boxes in my replies, so I have to cut them shorter. Will get to everyone eventually though No one is asking you to?! Don't worry about it Aziah . It seems one of Chewy's main aims in life is to find fault with me and/or my motives in any given situation No, I think that Chewy is more concerned about the ethics of rehoming a dog with temperament issues to a home with young children. This issue concerns me too, but I didn't read the original thread. Please don't make it personal. I think if Chewy's only concern was because of rehoming with young children, she would have mentioned that before in her other posts. Chewy's posts in my threads don't usually have a lot to do with her 'concern'. Hope all is going well with the little guy Dogdog Yep, she really is Persephone I agree with your first statement Lananbanana, it is a shame. I guess that with all the information they had about Banshee maybe this extra thing was just too much for them to deal with. They're not idiots though, they're a nice family who fell for a lovely little dog and thought they could give her what she needed. Im sure there would be more to it. It would be quite awful for all rescues to come on here bitching about returned dogs. It is disheartning at times, but it is ALWAYS for the best. I'm not bitching about her being returned, I'm updating. I think that's what happened Tdierikx. The reality of her needing more time to transition wasn't what they bargained for. The deal was always that if it didn't work out, I'd take her back. And yep, she's doing fine

Yep, at the time it seemed the right thing for everyone involved. How I missed her though! It's funny that I really hadn't got used to not having her jump up on my back every time I bent down at the vcr... or tie my shoe... or wipe the floor ..... I've got a dog walker coming in to the shop to have a chat on Saturday . Maybe I can pay her in dog food? :D

No one is asking you to?! Don't worry about it Aziah . It seems one of Chewy's main aims in life is to find fault with me and/or my motives in any given situation

you have a big heart RSG, bigger than I. A dog "with a lot of fear and trauma issues, not to mention being diagnosed with pancreatitis and now being treated for stump pyometra" I could never afford it even if I had the emotional capacity. It doesn't worry me, the last one I fell for cost me a lot of money and she was worth every cent. Same here RSG. I stopped adding up Banshee's bills when they went over $1,000. As you say, worth every cent

She is a little love RSG you have a big heart RSG, bigger than I. A dog "with a lot of fear and trauma issues, not to mention being diagnosed with pancreatitis and now being treated for stump pyometra" I could never afford it even if I had the emotional capacity. Afford what? It isn't any more expensive to care for a dog with Pancreatitis, and the Stump Pyometra was fully treated before she went to them. The rest of the post that you quoted from addresses how far she'd come with her fear issues and that the family was fully aware of everything and what was required of them. The family was smitten with her and wanted to adopt her, and Banshee displayed no fear with them at all. I did everything I could to make sure that I was doing the right thing for Banshee and that the family knew absolutely everything about her. The rest of the post is here if anyone is interested. http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;#entry4826926 You'll see I posted to get input from other DOLers to make sure I was doing the right thing for both Banshee and this family.

Yes, they took on a dog with issues, but those issues had nothing to do with her being returned. Did you miss that I mentioned how well they were doing with socialising, etc? Banshee was returned because she had a few toileting accidents and the family, in their words, didn't feel they had the time to toilet train her. I don't think that stating the facts and saying it's a pity is being hard. was she toilet trained when she left? Absolutely! She wasn't trained when she first came to me and it only took her three days to get the hang of it In fact, she was the best out of all the dogs, went in any weather and went every single time she was supposed to. Not one accident in 5 months The behavourist thinks she was still transitioning to a new home and finding her boundries as she was fine for the first week and also on the playdates and sleepovers she'd had beforehand. That's why I think it's a pity, she's so smart, she only needed firm boundries and a bit more time.

Yes, they took on a dog with issues, but those issues had nothing to do with her being returned. Did you miss that I mentioned how well they were doing with socialising, etc? Banshee was returned because she had a few toileting accidents and the family, in their words, didn't feel they had the time to toilet train her. I don't think that stating the facts and saying it's a pity is being hard.

Hi Crazy Cresties and Mother Moocher, I know, I thought they were a perfect fit. They were a nice family and really wanted to adopt her. I think the little boy will be pretty crushed now she's gone. Pity they couldn't have given her a bit more time to settle in. Apart from the toileting issue everything was perfect. I can't imagine trying this again, so I'll have to do everything I can to make it work for her here

Original story - A family wants to adopt Banshee http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;#entry4826926 Banshee, my Chinese Crested foster dog, was returned 10 days ago, on the 17th. Sorry for the late update, we’ve had quite a lot going on in the past couple of weeks. The family was terrific with her socialising and introducing her to friends and family. No hint of biting or insecurity. The problem was that Banshee was still transitioning and had toileted in the house occasionally in the second week. The family wasn't prepared to 'toilet train' her, so she they brought her back. I'd been in regular contact with them and given them advice, from myself as well as the behaviourist. She'd only been there 2 and a half weeks, but they weren't prepared for a dog that needed extra time to settle in and made an occasional mistake while doing so. A real pity as I thought they were the perfect family for her, were very aware of all her needs, and Banshee loved them. On the good side, Banshee is sooooo happy to be home again, and I'm in heaven having my crazy girl back . I had been expecting a written complaint in triplicate from the other 3 dogs, but so far things have been going okay. I'm being a bit firmer with her to make sure she doesn't annoy the other dogs, and on the days I can't get them to the park, I get her to burn off some energy by throwing a ball for her in the back yard. I might look into the cost of getting a dog walker for her as the major reason I was open to rehoming her was because she's young and has so much more energy than the other dogs (and me). Back with the Crew Ooooh, I missed that gorgeous, grumpy, kissable face! xxx eta. I keep singing this song in my head... My Banshee's back and you're gonna be in trouble. Hey la, hey la, my Banshee's back

It sounds quite similar to the issues he had in July. Similar time lines. Is he still on the Endep medication? What did the dog psychic say or do to help the last time?

Thank you so so so much yellowgirl, i am expecting Xena's vet bill to go to about $500 today so every dollar helps alot! The vet actually just rang me and although i told her that a number of crested people have confirmed that its just pimples shes keen to do a biopsy on her skin, paticulary the couple of bigger lumps under her skin on her back legs, her and another vet are paying for the lab costs so its not costing me anything . They have never seen a crestie before so they're interested in expanding their knowledge and getting a definite diagnosis, its really nice to see :p. Better go Kasey is giving me the why haven't you walked me yet eyes Hey Megs, any updates on Xena; skin issues, etc? Did the vet end up doing a biopsy on the lumps? No wonder the coats I sent didn't fit her! I didn't realise she was so long and skinny, I thought from the other pics you posted she was long and tubby ;) . If she still needs a coat, a wonderful customer donated this jumper for Xena when she saw her picture and info at the shop It's about 40cm long and I can post it out to you this week. Apart from the Dog of the Month donations for Xena, we've so far raised around $50 from her donation tin at the shop . Let me know if you need the funds now rather than at the end of the month Hugs to Xena and Kasey xxx

Wonderful news! Given what the alternative could have been, I think I'd be kissing that torn up lawn! Hugs to all xxx

+1

So glad to hear that Bonnie and Indie are doing well! Try and take care of yourself a bit, you've had a lot on your plate recently. Hugs to you all

Also waiting, and praying that everything is okay

EARL!!!! Don't make me come over there! Stop all that innapropriate eating nonsense this minute!! ... there, that should do it eta - hope he's okay, the big silly boofer