yellowgirl

A possum once poked it's head through our doggie door and growled at everybody, but that sounds supernatural. It sounds horrible I know Labradork. Actually it sounds even worse now that Ive had some more input and need to go and listen to it again. Hang on everyone ...

The doggy door is about a metre from where the dictaphone was westiemum. I'm hoping that the situation you describe is what's happened. Just had some input from another friend. I need to go and listen to it up loud. Haven't been able to do that yet because the dogs go nuts when I turn it on. I need to go into a room with a pillow over my head and listen carefully. Will report back....

I used to have possums at my previous place, noisy buggers they were too GeorgieB. Hadn't heard this kind of a noise from them though. I think a koala would win if it was between a koala and a dog tdierikx, even a group of dogs..lol. Yes, that bark and the growl noise sound really close to the mike, maybe one dog was right under it at the time? I've never heard that kind of growl or noise from any of the dogs here. Hey I'm okay with grasping at straws Jules :laugh: . I could still hear the tv in the background at the same volume when the noise had finished though. Yes, something had definitely upset the other dogs. They have that kind of reaction when someone comes to the front door, although not the howling. I agree, it does seem very close to the recorder as opposed to being outside. We're narrowing it down to koala or Tasmanian Devil at this stage Cazablanca :)

I'm pretty sure that was one of the words I used at the time Aussie3... Yes, the fact that one of the dogs (I'm pretty sure it was Teddy) was howling was quite upsetting. There's also a loud, sharp bark just before the noise. And then quiet... I remember just sitting there with my eyebrows right up and my eyes bugging out, then replayed it, and replayed it, and replayed it. And it got creepier every time.

It's not so bad once you actually know what something is, but I could imagine that it would have scared the pants off you at the time! Long sounds are spookier I think too.

Wow, that second one sounded very similar! They're cute little things aren't they? I'm going with Tasmanian Devil! :) And the likelihood of one being in SA and in yellowgirl's suburban kitchen would make even less sense. :laugh: We're not going for sense here Snook, we're going for something I can live with so I can actually leave the dogs alone in the house again! :laugh: . At the moment, I'm thinking it's very possibly a Tasmanian Devil :laugh: :laugh: unless you live in Goolwa SA, then anything is possible ! :laugh: Okay, teleporting Tasmanian Devil. I think we're definitely on the way to solving the mystery :D ...Or koala...

Okay, I think that will work Bjelkier. I'm going with the theory that a koala put his head through the doggy door (the back door is just off the kitchen, near the counter where the dictaphone was). I feel better now :) Doors and windows were closed and the yard is very large Staffyluv, we don't get any big sounds coming into the house. I leave the tv on Jules, it was on in the background (in another room) at the time. Helpful MUP ..lol!

The dictaphone is up on a kitchen counter Pers. I have littlies, they can't get near it. :laugh: I'm *hoping* that's what it is bedazzled but I've never heard any of them do it like that, and especially not for that long. It was mostly the length of it that gave me chills. I know right?? I have a huge backyard, and all the doors and windows were closed. Not a lot of outside noise comes in. This........very spooky !!!!! edited to add that my dogs kept on sleeping...too hot to react !!! My dogs go absolutely mental when they hear it, but they probably just love the sound of their own voices :laugh: . As mentioned, the dictaphone is up on a counter in the kitchen, the dogs can't get to it. I'd like to know too Dxenion!! Hope your doggies are okay... I don't think we can cross post Jules. I'd LOVE to have someone debunk any illogical theories (that I'm trying very hard not to have)!! Must be mostly my crazy bunch that reacts to it kiwigirl :laugh:

Holy crap Ness! And that was from five years ago! I'd better start finding some stuff for ebay :) Thanks for the heads-up though, much appreciated. I know a few people who have been to Ian McBryde on Salisbury Highway and been happy with the support. http://www.shvs.com.au/staff.html Thanks Piper, I'll give them a buzz.

If I'm not able to get a dog-sitter, I'll often use a dictaphone to record the dogs when I'm out to make sure that they're quiet while I'm away. Usually all is good, a little bit of fussing when I first leave but then all quiet. On Friday I had to go out for a couple of hours in the afternoon and I put the dictaphone on and left it in the kitchen. I usually just listen to it in the background when I'm doing stuff on the computer. I listened to it on Saturday night and nearly jumped out of my pants at a particular section. It was about 40 minutes after I'd left, it's all quiet, then something obviously upsets everyone. Then there is a 'noise'. It's not one of my dogs. I don't know what it is. I've taped it onto a video because the dictaphone uses a cassette tape. Could you guys take a listen please? The video is right before something happens, the first few seconds are quiet before something upsets them, then at about 47 seconds in is the 'noise'. Then it's all quiet after that for the rest of the tape. Warning: your dogs will probably go mental when you play it ... UPDATE to save you going through all the posts ... It's definitely a man's voice. There's a woman's voice just before the first dog barks, saying something like 'is there anything scary in there?', then the dogs all go crazy, then the man puts his head through the doggy door and growls at the dogs (that's the horrible growling sound). The man then whispers something that we haven't been able to work out yet. Then apparently they leave. The growl sounds like it's right next to the dictaphone because the hallway is very echoey and goes right onto the kitchen (the dictaphone was right next to the doorway). I tried an experiment yesterday by recording myself yelling through the doggy door, and on the dictaphone it sounds like someone is right next to it. So we now know that at least two people came into my yard on Friday afternoon and got as far as the doggy door. I now have ten traumatised dogs here Thank you to everyone who listened to this over and over, often at ear busting levels and found the woman's voice and the man's whispering. I'm still in a bit of shock over it all... The incident was reported to the police yesterday so it's at least on record.

Clomicalm is an older style drug, a tri-cyclic anti-depressant, and is the drug of choice for separation anxiety. Prozac (fluoxetine) is more commonly prescribed for obsessive-compulsive behaviours (called "stereotypies" in animal behaviour). Tryptophan can be given as a supplement, usually with a Vit B complex and some carbohydrates. Evidence reported in the recent literature suggests that increasing the % of tryptophan to other aminos in protein is sufficient to get it across the blood-brain barrier, particular if insulin is raised a little to shuttle other large neutral aminos towards other parts of the body. It does need other nutrients to eventually be turned into serotonin in the brain, but the dietary deficiency is more likely to be tryptophan (corn based foods are a likely culprit) rather than any other nutritional deficiency. I would just give it a try in the interim, it might help. But I think prozac is your best bet, so it's great that you're going to see a veterinary behaviourist. They'll take a thorough history and prescribe the most appropriate drug if required. That's super helpful, thanks so much Aiden! I'll print this out for my vet to look at. I have two bubs going in for post-surgery checks on Monday so I'll discuss it with her then.

Holy crap Ness! And that was from five years ago! I'd better start finding some stuff for ebay :) Thanks for the heads-up though, much appreciated.

Here's a bit more info to add to the confusion. Daisy was surrendered to the pound along with two other dogs that she lived with. They were all badly neglected, filthy, matted coats, extremely smelly, infested with fleas, ear mites, injuries, open wounds, skin infections, the whole nine yards. The other two dogs were similar looking terrier crosses. One of them was euthanised at the pound due to the extent of his neglect and injuries The other one, Teddy, a blind terrier cross boy, came here with Daisy. Teddy had very badly infected feet (apart from all the other issues mentioned above), there were old wounds, new wounds and open, weeping sores, mostly underneath in and around the pads, as well as up around his hocks. He was (and still is to some degree) a classic 'feet licker' due to the constant infections. These pictures show his feet a few weeks after he came into care and they are already in the process of healing. These are TEDDY's feet, not Daisy's. It's taken a lot of work to get Teddy's feet into reasonable condition and I have to keep an eye on him because he will start to lick them again if he's left to his own devices. The Wound Gard bitterant spray works well for him to keep him away from his feet and the Neocort cream has helped to heal the wounds and the damage that he'd done from licking them. The reason for mentioning Teddy is for the comparison of two dogs that came from the same environment and have dealt with their issues in different ways. Teddy continually licked his feet as they were already sore, infected and inflamed. His licking kept that cycle going. I've treated his situation the same as I've treated other feet lickers that have come into care here. It's basically a matter of discouraging the licking and treating the wounds and inflammation, then usually just general maintenance and monitoring. It's time consuming but it's certainly do-able and treatable. Daisy is different. Her behaviours are extreme, hard to control and monitor, and definitely in the OCD category. There's also the fact that she'll transfer those behaviours onto another dog that may be nearby. For her, it's the compulsions to act out in this way that over-ride everything else. Another interesting fact is that poor Teddy needed almost every single rotting tooth removed during a major dental, he just has a few left at the front now. One of the theories is that Daisy's habits may have had something to do with her teeth. If they were as bad as Teddy's, perhaps she was using her own body to sooth the pain from her teeth, in the process rubbing and pulling them so much that because they were already rotten, they dislodged and came out. All speculation of course because we just don't know, but it's an interesting theory. She often uses her whole mouth during her behaviours, so that whatever she's gumming on is pulled the whole length of her mouth, top and bottom. She also has a very overshot jaw (I think it's overshot - the lower jaw is much shorter than the top). You can see it pretty well in the video with Sarge and how she tries to make contact with the whole inside of her mouth. Anyhoo, as I said it's interesting to compare the behaviours of two dogs that came from the same conditions and environment.

Thanks sas

Yes she has Schnauzer. All clear. It's good to hear other stories Crazy Cresties, thank goodness your Daisy had you for her final home, you've done a wonderful job with her. She's beautiful :) What's interesting with our Daisy is that within about 1/2 an hour after she's had a go at her feet, there's no residual inflammation or irritation as there often is with feet lickers . And yes, Sarge is pretty patient ..lol. Although to be honest I think he thinks that he's getting a massage and thoroughly enjoys it :D

I forgot to mention that Daisy also had a trial with SOE Bioremedies. The lovely man who runs it, Christian, made up a preparation especially for Daisy. Unfortunately there was no change in her behaviours but I did think it was so nice of him to do it. Sam, the behaviourist that Christian works with, was one of the behaviourists who came out to see Daisy too. Such lovely people .. just wanted to mention it :) One of our facebook supporters suggested these guys http://www.healwithease.com/products-page/remedies-for-pets/personalised-healing-program-for-pets-2 They sound similar to some of the things we've already tried, including the SOE Bioremedies, but I'll put it in the 'things to look into' box.

That's brilliant, thanks Ness! I'll get the questionnaires filled out and sent off. Daisy has already had a full blood panel done so they'll have that info too. I couldn't find any mention of costs though.

Mitch used have some kinesiology/chiro on points at the front of his shoulders etc .. it helped :) I forgot to mention that Daisy has a TTouch massage each night. She's also had several visits from qualified Massage Therapists and Reiki Masters ... when I say I'm willing to try anything, I mean anything! :) Thank you ness :) It's a heck of a distance away but I'll ring tomorrow xx

Thank you for your support as always Dogmad :) I'd appreciate it if you could let me know which meds worked for the PAWS dog. Daisy is currently on Clomicalm. Thanks Kayla xx Hey Noisy :) She's had her breakfast already but I'll start including the Tryptophan + Multi with her dinner tonight. All the dogs have an arthritis supplement included with their meals which also contains calcium ascorbate. Yes, it is hard to watch but she's responding to the stop commands pretty well now so we're making some small progress. xx Thank you Flick Mac. I'm pretty sure that the Clomicalm is the 'new prozac' for dogs, I remember the vet mentioning something about that at the time we were first discussing medication. I just posted a minute ago about arthritis, Daisy has had a Chiro check and she doesn't have any arthritis issues (one thing to be thankful for). It's all worth thinking about so your input is appreciated. xx Hi Ash, I've tried socks, booties, bandages, etc. If she can pull them off she will, if she can't, she goes for another part of her body, usually her flanks or her tail. If that fails, she scoots on her bottom. I think she goes for her feet because they're the most accessible but the behaviour itself will continue in other areas even if she can't get to them. xx

Thank you so much Julie! I have the Blackmores Multi + Tryptophan here https://www.pawbyblackmores.com/products/multi-tryptophan-chews, I'll start including that with her Clomicalm (serotonin) today. If you have the time could you let me know if the Blackmores supplement has all the necessary amino acids, vitamins, etc to work effectively as you've described? I'll read up on David Urich too. I'd be very appreciative for the other information too, thank you so much! Daisy weighs 3kg. eta - so sorry Julie, Ive just edited this - Daisy weighs 3kgs not 4 kgs. xx

Thanks Wobbly, I'll have a look through the other sections and see if there's anything extra there. xx Very happy to go that route Aidan. The behaviourists that have seen Daisy so far have been awesome and have come out on their own time to help, but neither of them are Vet Behaviourists. Any SA recommendations would be appreciated if anyone knows of one or has used a good one here. The bone idea is a good one Kirislin, unfortunately Daisy just can't be crated, she hates being separated from the other dogs and will scream and bash against the crate continuously until she's let out. Same thing if she's put in another room or separated at all from everyone else. The trouble is that there are 9 other dogs here at the moment and it's terribly hard to give just one of them a bone or any long-term chew without separating them. Interestingly enough, Daisy is fine if I have to go out, but that's probably because she's with the other dogs. Daisy went to the Chiropractor last month Pers. All our bubs have a Chiropractor visit as part of their health checks :) She's actually in pretty good nick, the Chiro thought she may even be younger than the 10 years that was estimated at the pound. She didn't need any adjustments or treatments at all. Our Chiro also does acupuncture, he's on leave at the moment but I'll definitely ask him about that option when he gets back.

No, it's not making it worse at all Plan B, in fact I'm very pleased to hear that I'm not the only one dealing with something like this and that others have had some degree of success with treatment or management. In fact, there are some really similar parallels between our Daisy and your Scrooge. It's extremely helpful to have this kind of input. Daisy is also a very happy, loving and affectionate girl when she's not hurting herself and if I look back there has definitely been improvement even if it's only that she's responding to the stop commands much quicker. I noticed in the first video that she actually looked at me as if wondering why I wasn't stopping her as I'd never usually let her go that long without intervening.

No probs MUP. Must be quite a question! :laugh:

Thanks so much Plan B. Daisy sounds very similar to your boy, including the psychological theories. I certainly understand about micro-managing, in fact it was very hard for me to keep taping while Daisy was hurting herself, I never let her go that long and always stop her as soon as I see her doing it. With several other dogs in care at the moment, particularly some with special needs, she sometimes gets away with more than she should, but she is getting very responsive to the stop commands, I can even stop her if I'm in another room and hear her doing it now. Wow Tibbie Tabbie, you've made amazing progress with your boy - well done! His issues were pretty full-on too. I will order the DAP collar tomorrow, anything and everything is worth trying. Thank you for your kind words too :) Hi dancinbcs, Daisy's behaviours indicate psychological as opposed to allergy for quite a few reasons. One is that we tried Prednil which should have had at least some effect if it were allergy based but there was no change at all. Another reason is that she 'transfers' behaviours, either to licking and gumming the bedding or even to another dog. There are a couple of other indicators but I'm a bit tired at the moment and my poor old brain won't let me remember them. Also, I've had lots of allergy dogs in care here and this is different to any other allergy behaviours I've seen - if that makes sense. Do you have a link to the Chinese Medicines? We've done lots of homeopathic trials and treatments already but I'm willing to keep trying.

That's probably because she would have been scared and confused at the pound, which works in some way as a distraction.