LizT

Hey don't laugh I had a pomeranian attached to my boob once ... little bugger swung up and latched on, growling and thrashing. Then got me on the hand too. Those little one's bite like a rabid ferret I wouldn't be game either A workmate of mine has a young sugar glider and she has to make a mental note to not let him out of his cage UNTIL she has put her T-shirt on first!!!! Otherwise Owwwweeeeeyaaa!! He's a little boob man! :laugh:

I was under the impression that folds and wrinkles can cause "hot spots" and that these were often a cause of concern in some animals.

Well it is true, a professional cannot make two dogs as in the OP scenario, get along. The behaviorist in this instance, would be to help the OP understand his own dogs' behaviour, and so manage the two dogs better. In your opinion lilli, do you think a behaviourist would have been able to help the OP to introduce the two dogs with a view to having them "co habitat" or (any two entire males for that matter) or do you think given that the Lab has some 'history' of abuse that caused his "food agression" that he was an unlikely candidate to begin with. I guess there's is no point speculating as the damage has been done. Even if the behaviouist does help the OP to better manage his dogs do you think living in close proxcimity, when they clearly will not get along, is not going to cause them further anxiety?

Nah I don't want to get rid of Ziggy, besides the bite, he is my ideal type of dog. If I get rid of one, it will have to be the Labrador, as I said above, due to being easier to find a home for. I am thinking of doing further upgrades to the property so there is even more protection from them getting at each other if a gate is left open etc (Could have two sets of gates etc). I have sent a few emails to some animal behavioral experts and said I am willing to pay the fee etc, I am just waiting for a response which should come within a few days. I am not just after advice, hehe sort of wanted a slight bit of sympathy :) My back is still healing weeks later, but he just got flesh, no organs or anything :) Oh also very interested in other person dog bite stories. I want to learn as much as I can about such behavior. The two dogs will not get along so you have to separate them. NO dog behaviorist is going to make two males get along particularly when one is of a breed that can be intolerant to the same sex. Alrighty so from experience, probably more lengthy than I would prefer on such matters, your solution is South Korea for Dog A and North Korea for Dog B. So never again shall the two meet. As for why you want a dog for protection, that's your business :) . Clearly Mark is of high repute and I'm all for bringing in the experts, actually I wonder why this wasn't done immediately following the incident weeks ago. I will admit I am also a little confused by your contradiction. I guess the point of the expert is NOT to make the boys get along so much as help make them good K9 citizens on their own. The Lab could certainly have done with professional help regarding his food protection issues ages ago. I really don't see the contradiction. Lilli, I was quoting the fact that you said "No dog behaviourist is going to make two dogs get along.....and then the fact that you were giving a "thumbs up" to the behaviourist, as I supposed that was what Cybergenisis was hoping to achieve, a behaviourist that would be able to help him make peace between the two dogs. However, Nekbet explained her perception of what a behaviourist would try to achieve, so the point has been clarified, to that extent, anyway. I guess it will really come down to what transpires between the behaviourist and Cybergenisis, as to what can and can't be achieved in his case. I really, truly do hope for a satisfactory outcome for these dogs and their owner. I just feel a great deal of frustration, as I personally feel that this scenario was avoidable and is a result of not thinking things through, and perhaps being a bit over confidenct in ones own abilities at what could be achieved in a relationship involving two adult dogs who perhaps have had a poor introduction, and perhaps somewhat hurried, to be fighting within the first 1-2 weeks and not to have had assistance sooner and allowing the situation to excalate to the point where someone could have been hurt, even more seriously than they were.

And his biggest mistake was thinking he would get only reasoned and helpful advice here. He has certainly been given that, but unfortunately it is in the minority, and he would need to be very calm and self contained to work through this thread to find it. From what I have read of Cybergenisis post I'm quite sure he is realist enough and experienced enough in the real world to know that his story will have provoked various different responses from posters. I'm sure he is a big enough boy to be able to weed out what he will use and what he will disregard. That is after all the whole point of a public forum. ;)

A bit of a curly one there. :laugh: Many breeders do not like the MR/Limited register distinction. While some feel it is a good system that protects their lines from being over used by those that are really only interested in breeding dogs for $$$$$ Other times it is because the puppy may not be quite up to the mark as a breeding prospect and the breeder would not like to see any registered progeny from that particular dog. Again, others feel that only breeders who show dogs should have their MR puppies. Before the introduction of MR/Limited many breeders only registered those puppies going to show homes or being used for breeding purposes. Other perfectly fine puppies were sold as "Pet Only" with a home made version of their Pedigree for the new Pet owner. So now many feel the MR/Limited is merely a way to inforce the registration of all puppies produced and is purely a revenue raiser. Others feel it protects the interest of all puppies breed and keep a more acurate record of litters produced.

Bend your hand toward your wrist and feel the back of your hand - thats how you want to be able to feel your dogs ribs and how you know when its over or under weight. Oh dear, they do have a bit of excess baggage lol The thing is Cavaliers are very good doers! My girls get by on a cup of kibble and about two tablespoons of meat. Its very hard not to overfeed them when you love them so much! Its just a natural thing for me to make sure theyre fed well, I guess Ive overdone it a bit !!! It's those eyes! I've made a rule that the dogs are to get NO SNACKS of any decription not given by me. They get their meals, and training treats, bones, pigs ears strips only on occassion. My OH is a shocker and I know he gives Crystal bits of roast beef trimmings when he makes his lunches as she goes nuts when he takes down the chopping board, doesn't bat an eyelid when I do! :laugh: The truly sad thing though is the old ladies who feed them biscuits for morning and afternoon tea, etc. etc. They kill 'em with kindness, not a good thing for a breed with heart issues. I'm sure you see more than your share of over indulged pooches at the Vet clinic. Your dogs are just a bit over but they are young so you must be careful.

Bend your hand toward your wrist and feel the back of your hand - thats how you want to be able to feel your dogs ribs and how you know when its over or under weight. Oh dear, they do have a bit of excess baggage lol The thing is Cavaliers are very good doers! My girls get by on a cup of kibble and about two tablespoons of meat.

Thanks for that. In regards to hitting the Neo, I realize this was not a good idea. I was in a panic because my Labrador was in serious trouble. I have read since to pull them by their back legs or tail (though this risks being bit as well). I won't be putting them back together unless there has been extensive work done with both dogs, but yeah it may not be possible. Really, I find so much inconsistency in his tale. He says he watched a video of how to break up dog fights in Sept last year............... cybergenesis Forum Member Posts: 47 Joined: 04-January 11 Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:15 PM wuffles, on 13 September 2011 - 02:08 PM, said: cybergenesis, on 13 September 2011 - 01:49 PM, said: So it sounds like this mans injuries were not severe. He got a significant bite to his arm and a scratch to his face... Anybody knows when dogs are fighting that you don't just put your arm into the middle of them... Der... That's all well and good, but when it's YOUR OWN dog getting attacked, the reality is that most of us would do the same thing. Doesn't absolve the attacking dog and their owner of responsibility. Not me. I would grab the back legs of the attacking dog and wheelbarrow him off. I watched a video on how to break up dog fights. I am not blaming the victim here, just saying, as a dog owner, he should have had a little bit more common sense, but the onus of responsibility lies on the other dog owner. ..........And yet punches the crap out of his dog, and has a screaming, punching fit that sets the dog to attack him! What's responsible about that? I guess at least he is trying to get help and will probably be feeling pretty bad about what happened.

Dog geek, I do so admire you. I admire you conviction, your spirit, your cohesion and clarity of thought and your rationale. Your expanations have been brave and very succinct. You have got me thinking alot more about "genes for colour" in the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. So far I have only bred particolour to particolour, and for the time being will continue to do so, but looking at the Cavaliers gene code for colour and the possible combinations depending on whether your dog and bitch are particular combination of codes, and the various possible outcomes has really got me thinking about how I can find out more about which gene code my girls are carrying and what I can or can't or shouldn't do with that information. Thank you. You too espinay2 found "your favourite site very interesting too. :)

And hopefully with a good quality selection of Cavalier to view too. BTW, the coat is brushed flat and often a "drying jacket" is used to help it sit nicely prior to showing. When at homes my dogs are just bathed and fluffed up so that can make them look a bit rounder! :laugh: We have a joke saying here at home, "I'm not fat, I'm just fluffy"! :laugh: :laugh: While there is no stripping or clipping as such, regular use of a slicker brush keeps the undercoat fresh and removes dead hair and helps the coat to sit nicely. A bristle brush like a Mason Pearson is used on the body and a pin brush and comb on the ears, tail and feathering on legs and tummy. Some like to use a slicker on the ears but I don't.

Okay, I've been out today and popped in to see how things are going here. :) Nice to see everyone playing nicely. :laugh: Mumoftwo, to give you an idea of weight, here is a photo of one of my bitches who by 'breed standard" is overweight, but clearly she isn't. She isn't particularly big either but does have good bone and muscle. You really have to go by what the dog looks like. I think popping along to a Cavalier Specialty is a great idea.

A small snippet I found in todays Age. PUPPY farmers have nothing to fear from RSPCA if the poor animals on the Rockbank property are any indication. It seems that someone, as observed by reliable witnesses, can have 23 dogs, presumably without council permits and no doubt unregistered, not provide clean water or adequate food, keep them in squalid conditions and farm them for an illegal meat trade. This was in the editorial I believe, OH ripped it out so I can't be sure, but sadly, they didn't put their name to it so it lacks credibility when that happens IMO. Terms such as "reliable witnesses", "no doubt" and "presumably" do nothing to further this.

Actually - there are no regulations around this - whether you are a CC member or not they don't get to tell you what you can do with dogs which they don't have on their registry. And sadly the White Shepherd has only two options in this country. 1. Being breed unregistered by those that have no clue OR 2. Being breed by an experienced and informed breeder. Either way at this point, they will not get registered and risk becoming extinct in Australia. They have been breed quite seperately and are distintly becoming a different breed to the Swiss White Shepherd. (read from information on a US website where both breeds are recognised as individuals.)

Well, I sure am confused :) '' Of course you would be - I lived overseas for a long time and bred dogs while over there. Came to Australia and got my breeders prefix here Ahh...that explains it. What breed did you have overseas? Are you still involved with that breed here? I had American Cocker Spaniels while in the USA, I dont have them anymore but would love to get involved again in the future. I love American Cocker Spaniels. All that beautiful coat! That said. the thing I love about the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is the No trimmings and natural coat. :laugh: Yes they are stunning animals and take a lot of grooming ! But definately worth every minute :) Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are much less work - I really miss the cockers - oops I mean American Cocker Spaniels :) :laugh:

Well, I sure am confused :) '' Of course you would be - I lived overseas for a long time and bred dogs while over there. Came to Australia and got my breeders prefix here Ahh...that explains it. What breed did you have overseas? Are you still involved with that breed here? I had American Cocker Spaniels while in the USA, I dont have them anymore but would love to get involved again in the future. I love American Cocker Spaniels. All that beautiful coat! That said. the thing I love about the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is the No trimmings and natural coat. :laugh:

I feel sorry for the next person you decide to pick on ! What makes you think I was picking on you and not others posting in this topic? Sorry Janba I took your comment the wrong way. I suppose I have my back up now because of the flaming that Im getting. You know its really hard to stay strong in my situation - I wasnt going to mention that I suffer from severe depression and a fatigue syndrome similar to Chronic Fatigue. I take every negative thing very personally. I dont want or expect any sympathy but a bit of understanding would be nice. Chill Mumoftwo. The written word can often be misinterpreted because it lacks tone. :)

Oh I am fully aware of that, but if you read through mumoftwo's previous posts there is no suggestion whatsoever that she has been "a registered breeder of another breed for years". Can you just hunch across a little on that "confused" bench for me please Miss B. Whats so confusing about that LizT Nothing, now that I've joined the dots. ;) But I would have thought that you would realise, having had entire bitches and having breed them that every dog is an individual and that they all have different body clocks when it comes to reproduction, regardless of breed. They are all the same species, albeit some are more primative than others. Take the Basenji for example that only comes into season once a year and BOTH male and female come into heat.

Well, I sure am confused :) '' Of course you would be - I lived overseas for a long time and bred dogs while over there. Came to Australia and got my breeders prefix here Ahh...that explains it. What breed did you have overseas? Are you still involved with that breed here?

Oh I am fully aware of that, but if you read through mumoftwo's previous posts there is no suggestion whatsoever that she has been "a registered breeder of another breed for years". Can you just hunch across a little on that "confused" bench for me please Miss B.

Well, I sure am confused :) You can have more than one Prefix Miss B. Sometimes people like them to have a 'connection" to the breed. Amorecavs would be just silly with say a German Shepherd. ;)

I don't let my boy "mark" when we are out. He is allowed one pee and that's it. He knows we are out for a walk and not on a "marking mission" so he has a decent wee when we are out and sometimes not even that, so like all good 'kids' he probably went before we left home. :laugh: I had a Rescue here that was an 8 year old entire and a marking machine. We had to put a lead on him and rush him out the crate and down the hall to the door quick march, hup, two, three, four as he would lift his leg at any chance! His first shot was my daughters wardrobe door as he was crated in her room. Eventually after he had settled in and with the aid of a belly band, and a few gutteral "Nuhah's" he learnt what's what and is now 100% house trained and living with my mother. :)

Yes, that I why I ask if she had a "Current" heart and eye certificate. Mumoftwo said she had, so that was why she purchased her. Mumoftwo, sorry didn't mean to get you riled. I assumed you had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. That is the breed name, that is what you must (painfully) write out in full on every piece of paperwork pertaining to the dog if she is a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. You may as well get used to it, and get it correct from the get go, if you intend being involved with this breed. I sometimes wish I had go involved in say, Pugs. So much easier to fill out forms and Show Entries. :laugh: Please don't be upset, I genuinely got confused after you called her a King Charles. Both breeds are Spaniels so it was a given it would be one! They are closely related and have a DNA that is entwined. I'm sure you've read about the Histroy of the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (there, having to write it out in full yet again! :laugh: ) I'm sorry to hear your Vet, who is probably a brilliant health carer, doesn't know the correct breed name. But there is alot of confusment regarding the two breeds in the General Public. I think being confused about what you were writing and asking you to clarify is not being particulary "petty" at all. Sorry that I haven't helped you, I did try. Thankyou LizT I do appreciate your post. I thought Id explained my mistake but obviously didnt make it quite clear enough to some readers. Yes she is a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, I will remember that until the day I die !! I never quite expected the flaming Im getting ! I didnt realise the were specific shortened names the both the breeds involved. Thanks again for your pleasant reply :) No worries and good luck with her. BTW what other breed do you currently have? :)

Yes, that I why I ask if she had a "Current" heart and eye certificate. Mumoftwo said she had, so that was why she purchased her. Mumoftwo, sorry didn't mean to get you riled. I assumed you had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. That is the breed name, that is what you must (painfully) write out in full on every piece of paperwork pertaining to the dog if she is a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. You may as well get used to it, and get it correct from the get go, if you intend being involved with this breed. I sometimes wish I had got involved in say, Pugs. So much easier to fill out forms and Show Entries. :laugh: Please don't be upset, I genuinely got confused after you called her a King Charles. Both breeds are Spaniels so it was a given it would be one! They are closely related and have a DNA that is entwined. I'm sure you've read about the History of the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (there, having to write it out in full yet again! :laugh: ) I'm sorry to hear your Vet, who is probably a brilliant health carer, doesn't know the correct breed name. But there is alot of confusion regarding the two breeds in the General Public. I think being confused about what you were writing and asking you to clarify is not being particularly "petty" at all. Sorry that I haven't helped you, I did try.

It's simple. Dog can only get attention from a stranger on your command, which in turn will remove the expectation and searching behavior. Meanwhile you praise him for getting attention from you. This way the 'reward' of getting attention from a stranger is still linked back to your authority. My Dogue is a total attention hog ... it takes us at least an hour and a half to walk through the market because everyone wants a pat. He loves it, everyone gets Dogue cuddles and it's joy all round. Why not. I would be tripping over myself for a Dogue cuddle, or Bullmastiff, or Newfie. But today at the Chiropractors an elderly gent had a Border Terrier bitch on lead that just about tuned herself inside out when I said 'hello' as I walked past in the car park. Later he was in the waiting room as I came out and I asked if I could pat her, she was laying very quetly at his feet but her tail was on a mission! :laugh: "She'd cry real tears if you didn't" was his reply. :)