LizT

Maybe I should start taking notes. It may be quite interesting. Could be intersting to do. One point though, every dog you groom would most likely be a 'pet" and not of breeding stock as any breeder/exhibitor would be grooming their own dogs and not sending them to a dog groomer. So sadly, you are potentially seeing the bottom end of the gene pool in the area you reside in. That said however, many good breeders sell quality health tested Show potential puppies as pets as you can only run on so many dogs. I don't expect to see show dogs walking in my door that is for sure, but pet owners still deserve to have pets of sound body & mind. If what I see in this breed turned out to be the second skimmings from registered ethical & show breeders then i'd be really sad about that. Yes, so would I be but remember ethical and registered are two separate words with distinctly different meanings. Someone in S.A. mentioned there was a Puppy Miller" churning out dogs at a great rate a few years back. And as Ososwift stated, these dogs may be all closely related. I've asked contacts on a closed international Cavliers Breeders list about feet deformities and it's not really something that has been seen "ALOT". One breeder has seen three in 37 years. Another none in 20 years. Another one in 40 years. These are either the outside toe missing or a short toe. So no, not "ALOT" seen by these breeders. I mean nature does throw the odd curve ball. Recently I heard of a puppy born with one eye not formed. Something like that can happen in any breed though.

Maybe I should start taking notes. It may be quite interesting. Could be intersting to do. One point though, every dog you groom would most likely be a 'pet" and not of breeding stock as any breeder/exhibitor would be grooming their own dogs and not sending them to a dog groomer. So sadly, you are potentially seeing the bottom end of the gene pool in the area you reside in. That said however, many good breeders sell quality health tested Show potential puppies as pets as you can only run on so many dogs. Assumption much? Yes, my assumption. I personally don't know of any Cavalier breeder/exhibitor who would not be doing their own dogs. Particularly as it is only the pets who would have a need for clipping or major trimmings etc.

That's good, I was thinking Willow was a very small puppy. Our old German Shepherd did pick her up in his mouth and bring her to me when he took her away from our Border Collie X ACD bitch who went from being all nice to nasty in 0.01 seconds when I first bought her for my in laws. She was a mean bitch! (The Border X not the whippet!) Lovely girls all round! A Whippet baby is bigger than I remember LOL My Mother-in-laws must have been a smaller bitch or your kids are tiny compared to mine! :laugh:

Maybe I should start taking notes. It may be quite interesting. Could be intersting to do. One point though, every dog you groom would most likely be a 'pet" and not of breeding stock as any breeder/exhibitor would be grooming their own dogs and not sending them to a dog groomer. So sadly, you are potentially seeing the bottom end of the gene pool in the area you reside in. That said however, many good breeders sell quality health tested Show potential puppies as pets as you can only run on so many dogs.

WOW! This is a phenonomen I am TOTALLY unfamiliar with. Certainly hasn't happened to any breeders pups I pesonally am aware of. Your experience has made me want to look into this further. I can understand a puppy being born with a deformity, nature does do weird things sometimes, but you make it sound quite prevalent and not "random" as these things usually are. When my own childen were born I did the usually new baby "count the fingers and toes thing" as we new mums do. We go over our precious ones with a fine tooth combs. :) I do check over the new puppies closely but haven't count "fingers and toes" as yet. That is a new one for me. Off to do some research on this one. Here is the bite I was talking about on the one I did today. It's plain to see it is a serious overbite & this is not the worst one I see. I counted & currently I have a relatively small number of CKCS clients at 39, and 6 of them have serious overbites similar to this one. I'm starting to wonder if I do see a lot of dogs from the same faulty lines or sires or something! and here is the little sweetheart herself. And sadly the head tilt is NOT just animation at some silly noise I made to get the photo....that is how it always sits with a permanent tilt! Another I groomed today has ulcerated eyes as well as cataracts so is effectively blind in one eye & can't see out the other, has a major crust on his nose, suffers skin problems, and air scratches at the drop of a hat which is miserable to watch & really difficult to manage during the groom! He is also prone to random aggressive outbursts so untypical of the breed. I got a video of him but i'm not sure how to link it here. Yes Arcane, that is a seriously bad overbite, and the other dog you mention, poor thing definitely has issues. I too wonder if this is from a line that is local to your area. Regarding feet deformities, I have been given some information from a King Charles Spaniel owner, yes 'Charlies' are a breed seperate to Cavaliers but do share a genetic link. She told me about somthing called "PYRAME FEET". she said QUOTE" One issue with King Charles Spaniel is the presence in some of "PYRAME FEET" which is the fusing of the pads/toes giving the impression a toe is mising. The nail on the fused pad/toe is also fused and is especially horny, and quite a bother with carpets, furniture - and especially nail trimming. UNQUOTE" Is this what you are referring to when you speak of feet deformities?

Bugger I live in Wandin and was going to go have a look but I have new puppy people coming at 11.30am for their new baby. :)

WOW! This is a phenonomen I am TOTALLY unfamiliar with. Certainly hasn't happened to any breeders pups I pesonally am aware of. Your experience has made me want to look into this further. I can understand a puppy being born with a deformity, nature does do weird things sometimes, but you make it sound quite prevalent and not "random" as these things usually are. When my own childen were born I did the usually new baby "count the fingers and toes thing" as we new mums do. We go over our precious ones with a fine tooth combs. :) I do check over the new puppies closely but haven't count "fingers and toes" as yet. That is a new one for me. Off to do some research on this one.

Lovely girls all round! A Whippet baby is bigger than I remember LOL My Mother-in-laws must have been a smaller bitch or your kids are tiny compared to mine! :laugh:

Agree. Let something else become flavour of the month! A very experienced mentor of mine told me that is is the popularity of the breed that has contributed to it's detriment. Seriously, if someone is so concerned about health issues, in ANY breed, IMHO they should get a "Heinz 57" mutt from a shelter, that truly has some "Hybrid Vigour"...it is a Russian Roulette still..but less bullets in the chamber.

May I also point out that the "reverse sneezing thingy" is not a health issue, it is to do with the structure of the animal and is not a health consequence. "Bite and Dentition Issue"...the bain of most Dog Breeds...many a good dog would "fail" once a judge looked in it's mouth. Also though the major affliction of CKCS, heart murmurs are not exclusive to the breed. We have dolers here who have had Poodle puppies diagnosed with heart murmurs resulting in difficult choices and expensive surgery. Recently an 8 week old German Pinscher was sadly given it's wings due to a severe heart murmur. Sadly, it can happen. Cavaliers are actually very robust little dogs and not the decrepid creatures you describe. An adult will happily do a five mile run. They will excel at agility, given the opportunity, they are not fussy eaters (much to their detriment) and do not suffer from many of the afflictions other breeds suffer from such as PRA (eyes) unlike say, Poodles and Golden Retrievers, and hip dysplasia is rare in them. The yodel vocalisation, may be unusual for other breeds but it is a characteric of the CKCS and not inappropriate! "shuffling around the ring" :laugh: ..my bitch did not get Best In Group One by a Gundog Judge at a Melbourne Metropolitan All Breeds Show by "shuffling around the ring".....she has a spaniel movement to die for.

My son was born with an umbilical hernia. They are hardly life threatening. His self corrected, but many can be repaired easily in the case of dogs can be done when being desexed. A friend has only one testicle, the other became cancerous and had to be removed. Both my German Shepherd and my Burmese cat both had one retained testicle that needed surgery beyond normal castration to remove. Another friends son has severe ear infections and requires gromets. Sad to say regular cleaning of your friends Cavaliers ears would have spared him "smelly ear infections". My point is this can happen to ANY mammal.

Absolutely. I'm not trying to say a CKCS can't be healthy & sound. Seeking out the finest of breeders is certainly my recommendation when anyone asks me about this breed. I think much of the woe I see is the result of BYB and profit driven breeders. Arcane you are right in sofar as statistics cannot tell you which dogs came from breeders that health tested and increased the odds of a sound animal as opposed to a BYB's/unregistered breeder or even if they are 'slightly' crossbred but closely resembling a Cavlier King Charles Spaniel. Even Health Testing is not a guarantee but as we do more and more it certainly throws the odds back in the dogs favour. Certainly the life expectancy of this small dog is not what it should be...averaging out to approximately 9 years. Many have a healthy happy life well beyond that. I have only been involved with the breed for 5 years, have done much research before purchasing my first Cavalier. But have learnt so much and will continue to do so for the duration of my involvement with this most beguiling of creatures. I do know indeed that this is a breed that will break your heart. But I have had my heart broken with many a dog of various breeds and combinations unknown when it became sick or old and it was time to say goodbye. Every living creature has the possibility of disease, sickness and misery in it's life. There are no guarantees in life. Yes, MTV being the biggest issue for breeders of course. Very difficult problem to try to eradicate. It does not have any genetic DNA markers with which to exclude stock from breeding. Yes, we can health test regularly and breed from clear parents but a dog or bitch that is heart clear at 3 or 5 years of age may not be at 6 years of age. What to do? You can't leave a bitch until she is elderly to breed from obviously, a pup may be born heart clear and remain so all of his life whereas he may have had litter siblings that developed murmurs early in life. Yes, Cavaliers have health issues but I believe they are well worth fighting for.

Having read through this post I wish the pup well since it is here on this earth due to some random and I have to say irresponsible breeding from it's parents owners. I think any STB breeder would be able to confirm it is not a purebred dog, that doesn't matter now, as you can't wind back the clock. You have bought the dog, she is your resposibility and I hope you take that responsibility seriously in both sickness and in health. See to the dogs need, take good advice, care for her, train her and keep her safe. :) Good luck with your new puppy.

Be careful of duck poos it can carry some nasties.

Have families lined up for adoption this weekend. One is a first time dog owner and is sooo nervous but I think will make an excellent 'mum'. She has really done her homework and lives 15 minutes away so I have told her I am here for her anytime she needs help or advice. Two boys aged 9 and 12 will be so excited tonight and will be waiting for Saturday afternoon to come round. :) Another is getting their second Cavalier and have a one year old dog at home. Wont he be surprised! :laugh: And the third? ...... think I'll hold on to her for a bit...maybe 10 years give or take a year or two :D

So sorry Angelsun. Run free little one.

Troy???

I am continually amazed at how tolerent most dogs of any breed are with people in general. :) I think education, supervision and socialisation are definitely the key. Eg. Teach your children not to scream, run around squealing and raise their hands in the air. Give dogs their 'space' and don't hug them face to face. (I know lots of dogs like hugs but this is a blanket safety rule for the unknown quantity.)

Can I just add that the lime will "sweeten" the soil and help to put the soil ph alkaline/acidity back in balance. I would not recommend putting lime into a yard that is not able to be rested for a period of time (a month or so) though as it will not be good for your dogs paws.

Thank you very much Puglvr

As a person of half a centuray plus I can sadly tell you they have always been!

A show friend with an intellectually handicapped son was annoyed at his brother the other night at dinner and said to him if you don't stop it you are going to get re-homed! Priceless.

The only ones I have ever heard of testing in Aust are a very small handful (maybe 6) of Aust Labradoodle development breeders who were trying to get the breed recognised. They were trying to reduce their high incidence of hip and eye problems. Most however would not be tested and none of the other crosses would be. I think things may be different in the US though where they have all sorts of odd "breed clubs" for crossbreds and multiple registries. The most likely dogs though to have genetic problems are unregistered purebreds and second+ cross DDs where they have crossed back to one of the original breeds. Breeding healthy purebred dogs takes a lot of work and dedication to get it right. The average heinz 57 variety mongrel is probably likely to be pretty healthy genetically due to true hybrid vigour but once you can clearly identify a breed or breeds in it, the testing needs to be done for any of theose breeds. As I suspected. At least the potential buying public who may have read this book are slightly better informed tha twhat is touted generally. I particualrly like a "tip' quote where it states that if you are allergic and buy any 'oodle' breed for potential hypoallergenic benefits you still may end up with a dog you cannot live with.

Interesting that you should mention "Registered Breeders or Not". I know we are not supposed to talk about "DD's" but as a matter of interest my OH often picks up second hand Dog Books for me (and horse books) from a second hand shop he visits. Yesterday, amongst his 'haul' there was the book "The Complete Idiots Guide to Designer DOgs". In the book it mentions not to buy from BYB's or "Puppy Mills" but to get your dog from a breeder who DNA and health tests it's parent stock for genetic diseases. I must say I was both surprised and pleased to see this information published. However, good luck finding a breeder who breeds this particular type of pet for the Pet Shop industry in this country who can provide proof of this type of testing to the new owners.

Can anyone pleeeease tell me the current pricing for a Litter Registration with Dogs Victoria? I am trying to do my paperwork and the Website wont tell me my forgotten password. Apparently the "parameters' are wrongly set! Blah. I have to wait for office hours to sort THAT one out. Would like it ready to post by end of weekend if I can. Thanks. :)