LizT

Yeah, you know she never once rejected him, always had him close to her side, under her wing, cleaned him and let him nuzzle her. Strangely last night and this morning she was madly scratching at the Vetbed, like digging. Did she know he was dying and was trying to prepare a place to "hide" him? Or more likely hide him from me taking him all the time.

Thanks for all your lovely thoughts. Amazed at how attached one can get to a little fellow after three days. I was already thinking it ws going to be hard to let the little guy go and he would have to have THE BEST home. The thud in the pit ofmy stomach is the same as when I had my 14 year old Shepherd P.T.S. There will be the tiniest little puppy resting besides him this evening. Worst part is my 10 year old daughter went to camp yesterday and I've just written to her. Of course I didn't mention it. She will be so sad when she comes home. I know she'll understand though as we've talked alot about the possible outcomes of breeding her Bonnie. I thought it important to let her know the potential risks, without scaring her of course..

The only little boy born in the litter of 6 on Saturday morning was p.t.s. this morning due to a cleft palate. Play in the endless summer little boy. Can't believe how attatched we all became in such a short time. Your sisters will miss you. The irony is my sisters and I lost our only brother who shares a birthday with this litter. Frank this puppy was clearly meant to be with you.

Sadly the little Tri boy was put to slep this morning due to a cleft palate. I know you asked about that Persephone and I did say that the litter and mum had been check by the Vet. I took him in this morning and the other Vet and I checked down the back of his throat with a light and he had quite a long fissure at the back of his throat. I guess the other Vet was looking for the more common hole in the roof of the mouth. I am now a Dog Breeder, I 've felt the high, and the low, and now as I watch these fat little girls with their mumma we all know someone is missing. The irony is my sisters and I lost our only brother, who happens to share a birthday with this litter! Frank, this puppy is with you now. You have my permission to spoil him rotten.

Steve, have you ever had to board them anywhere?

No...my Jersey cow was looking nervous when I went up to do the horses tonight!

Back to the butchers....thanks

Okay I've been to several butchers and no-one has a bit of beef liver, don't have any call for it, one said he could possibly get me one by Wednesday, but that's the WHOLE liver, HUGE. Everyone has lambsfry, will that do?? Noticed you mentioned that t-time??

That's very interesting Oakway, I've been asking this question for years and have only found out what I instinctively felt since joining this forum. I've ALWAYS asked myself the question of why we can be vaccinated for life but our pets need annual boosters and have a much shorter lifespan.

I think you have done all you could considering the circumstances, again as said previously, not knowing how old the puppy was its hard to comment without sounding harsh, and I certainly don't want to but if we are talking chicken I certainly would not give a puppy any chicken bones at a young age as even a large breed may not have cruched properly. But certainly, these things happen and I think most people could only have handled it the same way you have. It's very, very, sad for all concerned.

By definition isn't "sparring" the same as "feinting". As in Bluff?

Ain't that the truth!

I'd be interested to hear the answer to this one? Just curious though, how old is your bitch ie. how many "Annual" vaccinations has she had so far in her life? She may be well covered enough to wait till later on.

He's just had two lovely 15 minute assisted nurses on mum. Needs to be held in place but is paddling well. Hopefully headed in the right direction.

Thanks so much t-time, I was just about to ask if anyone knew the technique. I was about to make it as an infusion as I couldn't find any details anywhere. Can you imagine how many times the word "liver" comes up on this forum! I'll pop in to the butchers this am. Can I make an infusion out of the dried treat? I would give this in addition to the 'milk' or alternate feeds?

Okay, the little guys been having two hourly feeds throughout the night and twice was hunting for a nipple so I've managed to hold him on for about 5 minutes and then he gets tried I guess and drops off so then we give him supplements which he takes quite keenly now. He is defiitely rehydrated now and looks sooo much better with his tummy rounded (as I'm sure you can all visualise the poor 'skinned rabbit' look he had previously)! Since I work night shift I took last night off because he needed me and I was a wreck anyway not having slept the previous night. So the routine is when he wake, try nipple first, then supplement, then give to mum for toileting. Definitely easier than an orphan! Last feed he had he was sucking the tip of the eye dropper quite vigorously. Older kids (20) and (17) learning dropper feeding (tube too intimidating forthem) as they will roster when I am at work tomorrow/tonight night. Fortunately I can feed him at 1am ish before I leave and they can do the next three in turn until I get home at about 8.00 am. Searching Liver tea recipes now. Thanks so much all of you.

Okay. He's just nursed on her for a few minutes with my assistance. Glad he's got some of her milk in him too now.

Thanks, Cockerlover. He paddles and searches but just doesn't latch on? We've tried expressing and holding him close etc. Beef liver T....by that do you mean an infusion of beef liver ie. Tea?? He's never been cold, as mum keeps him close by, she's really got the 'nose slide' thing happening now. Also he 'swims' over to her and burrows into her, almost looks like he's nursing...but he isn't. We've fed him 3 times now. He looks better hydrated though I'll be topping him up throughout the night until he starts nursing properly.

Thanks, I didn't know about post labour panting..only pre...and she didn't do any of that!

At the moment I'm getting some into him via an eye dropper, he does have a tummy afterwards so hopefully will get some strength into him soon. ATM he is slow to suck but swallows nicely with the eye dropper. He is visibly plumper after feeding and weighs more. About how much should he be getting at each two hourly feed? I've only been giving him about three eye droppers (the glass kind you get with hoemopathic medicines) worth as I don't want to overload him.

We have been trying to place him on the teat...he's not interested! Maybe he's sneaking a drink when I'm not looking???? That could be why he's not interested when we try to plug him on??? But the girls don't have to be asked twice...they are always up for it if they are awake. I think they were all a bit dehydrated as I think the Welping box was a bit too warm. It was a about 28C but when the bitch started panting I turned it down. They are looking to her for warmth and we've put a heater in the room instead so I'm hoping everyone is more comfortable. The skin was slow to bouce back on ALL of them but is quicker now. I've just done his "toileting" and got a nice teeny trickle and tiny poos. I'm watching them closely, they are all asleep and quiet now....will try to get him plugged on when he's awake....again

Well put Shell, as the saying goes...."There is a time and a place for everything" Darn, must be getting a head cold, where are the tissues?

Yes, she's being great, and he's getting the most cuddles. And he's pooping and urinating??? They are so tiny and helpless.

Thanks, we keep the strong suckers rotating. Uggh! I remember engorgement, I was rock hard for a couple of days. They only had one can of Di-Vetelact and nothing else..but they gave me Wombaroo teats but I used a eye dropper instead.

Go to the Shows. Watch, listen, learn. Talk to people, ask questions (but not when they are busy 'faffing around' with their dogs LOL) Talk to the Westie people, they may be able to recommend (or steer you away from) certain breeders. Also a good oportunity to see what is 'fashionable' for your breed and how they are handled. If you've shown greys or Pintos as I did you'll be very familiar with the "Whiteglo" types of purple shampoos LOL There are heaps of good stockists on line and like others you'll probably try every new thing