LizT

Oh, can't I just email them? :rolleyes: *UPDATE* TrinaJ, I've sent a nice email asking that very question...will let you know how I go. :D

Been there done that too. In fact, going through it at the moment. My pick bitch was stolen. I'm increasingly reluctant to breed from her mother again. But it doesn't for one minute mean that I should breed from one of her siblings (all of whom are on LR with spey/neuter) because they are still only second best and I don't believe in settling for second best. I agree with that Ellz but my thoughts were more along the line of "What if the puppy that has been 'restricted' to 'Show Only and Not for Breeding' turns out as good or even better AND the line is under threat for whatever reasons. Under that situation it would be a pity not to be able to use him or for the Original Breeder to make that decision to change the amendment. PS. I've emailed Dogsvic to try to find out.

Why would someone who intends to BYB ask for pup to be changed to Main Register? She stated that her 13 year old desexed male was on Main ( but there was no LR then), so perhaps people feel there is a 'stigma' attached or that they are getting 'seconds' with "Limited Register". If she just wanted to BYB 'Limited Reg" would not be an obstacle so better for her not to ask at all wouldn't it in case the sale fell through? Just now a different puppy sale has been let go by me because husband of original inquirer is "not happy' about LR and "may want to breed his bitch" so has decided he will get a puppy on MR in the New Year. That's fine I said to them, this girl is staying on LR. So BYB is not what they want either. I think people feel they should have a right to legitimately breed there dogs if they want to. When I told them that it was not as simple as just finding another male on MR and breeding to get them registered they were surprised. When I added that after doing my sums on this litter of five pups in the end my expenses have left me with enough to cover a Stud Fee (I hope) and a bitch to go on with. They were surprised! I think more people need to realise that breeding Registered dogs is a "Not for Profit Organisation"!

i know a few do that, no amend that, most i know do that, i also know two of em that now have no one or nowhere to go to get a pup from, when they lost the lines when their bitch in one case was desexed without their consent, (family argument) the other developed pymetra and the vet recommended she be desexed n none of their siblings were not already LR n desexed as part of the contract. burning all bridges can have its rammifications That's why I was wondering if the decision to tick the box "not to be bred" could be changed by the breeder just in case the worst should happened to the line (dog forbid).

Not that I am aware of.... Well I guess since you have the bloodlines even if he was a sucessful show dog and titled they would not be lost.

It is sad to see them go and I was a bit upset at the reaction their mum had only after the car drove off with her baby... she started to bark and jump at the gate. I hope people keep in touch as they say and send me some pictures. I'm glad you are open to the possiblility of someone showing your dog. If you decide later on that the dog should be bred from can you change that amendment so it's progeny can be registered?

No, hang on, this is where I got it from, this is what you said. Yes, that is what I'd said, but I was intending to keep one if good enough, but clearly the majority of the litter needs a purpose and that was for Pets in loving homes. I guess to me LR means Pet Only.

Great statement....I agree. Yes, it is a great statement and I totally agree with it in essense....however it does bother me, (and I'm sure this bothers all breeders) that this also means that the greater majority of YOUR breed is out there in the community having been bred by BYB, Puppy Millers and those that do no health checks and do nothing to improve the breed or produce a quality representation of YOUR breed. But I'm not really sure if anything can be done about this under the current climate. What are you talking about??? My breed only has 3-5 puppies of which I keep at least 2 to run on so maybe 3 are sold as pets if lucky. How can you say this when you bred the whole litter for pets....how many were in the litter???? I did not breed the whole litter for pets. My hope was to have something good enough to keep, but that is not always the case is it? I have retained a bitch that I have high hopes for but cannot keep all five bitches. My hopes for the remaining pups in the litter was for them to also be sound healthy puppies that would be placed in Pet homes. With a popular breed like Cavaliers there is a huge BYB market and they are always seen in Pet Shop Windows, usually poor examples of the breed to boot. THAT is what I am talking about! Therefore, I don't see what your problem is with producing a litter of pups, from which I intended to keep one bitch, and any other pups I hoped to be healthy, quality puppies for the general Public to own. This just sounds like a misunderstanding. You said originally that you bred the litter just for pets, but later clarified that with your last post above. And I understand that you would rather see the general public with great examples of the breed rather than the substandard BYB pups that are often seen in pet shops etc. I think we'd all like to see that! Yes, The Ark, exactly. :D When I said I had bred this litter for "Pets Only" I meant that I had no intention of selling any to a breeder unless I knew them or someone whose opinion I respected "vouched" for them. I'm not even sure if the one I've kept is ever going to be "more than a pet" but she will be a pet I'm proud of, as I hope is the case with her sisters. :rolleyes: Sorry was going on your opening post. The pitfall of a forum and typing 'simplified' explanations!

Great statement....I agree. Yes, it is a great statement and I totally agree with it in essense....however it does bother me, (and I'm sure this bothers all breeders) that this also means that the greater majority of YOUR breed is out there in the community having been bred by BYB, Puppy Millers and those that do no health checks and do nothing to improve the breed or produce a quality representation of YOUR breed. But I'm not really sure if anything can be done about this under the current climate. What are you talking about??? My breed only has 3-5 puppies of which I keep at least 2 to run on so maybe 3 are sold as pets if lucky. How can you say this when you bred the whole litter for pets....how many were in the litter???? I did not breed the whole litter for pets. My hope was to have something good enough to keep, but that is not always the case is it? I have retained a bitch that I have high hopes for but cannot keep all five bitches. My hopes for the remaining pups in the litter was for them to also be sound healthy puppies that would be placed in Pet homes. With a popular breed like Cavaliers there is a huge BYB market and they are always seen in Pet Shop Windows, usually poor examples of the breed to boot. THAT is what I am talking about! Therefore, I don't see what your problem is with producing a litter of pups, from which I intended to keep one bitch, and any other pups I hoped to be healthy, quality puppies for the general Public to own. This just sounds like a misunderstanding. You said originally that you bred the litter just for pets, but later clarified that with your last post above. And I understand that you would rather see the general public with great examples of the breed rather than the substandard BYB pups that are often seen in pet shops etc. I think we'd all like to see that! Yes, The Ark, exactly. When I said I had bred this litter for "Pets Only" I meant that I had no intention of selling any to a breeder unless I knew them or someone whose opinion I respected "vouched" for them. I'm not even sure if the one I've kept is ever going to be "more than a pet" but she will be a pet I'm proud of, as I hope is the case with her sisters.

Great statement....I agree. Yes, it is a great statement and I totally agree with it in essense....however it does bother me, (and I'm sure this bothers all breeders) that this also means that the greater majority of YOUR breed is out there in the community having been bred by BYB, Puppy Millers and those that do no health checks and do nothing to improve the breed or produce a quality representation of YOUR breed. But I'm not really sure if anything can be done about this under the current climate. What are you talking about??? My breed only has 3-5 puppies of which I keep at least 2 to run on so maybe 3 are sold as pets if lucky. How can you say this when you bred the whole litter for pets....how many were in the litter???? I did not breed the whole litter for pets. My hope was to have something good enough to keep, but that is not always the case is it? I have retained a bitch that I have high hopes for but cannot keep all five bitches. My hopes for the remaining pups in the litter was for them to also be sound healthy puppies that would be placed in Pet homes. With a popular breed like Cavaliers there is a huge BYB market and they are always seen in Pet Shop Windows, usually poor examples of the breed to boot. THAT is what I am talking about! Therefore, I don't see what your problem is with producing a litter of pups, from which I intended to keep one bitch, and any other pups I hoped to be healthy, quality puppies for the general Public to own.

Some breeds and some individual dogs do have a stronger smell than others. I know of a lady who used to breed German Shepherds and now breeds Huskys and is happy that the Huskys don't smell strong like GSD do. She didn't change because of the smell mind you, it was just a pleasent bonus! My GSD has a strong smell and bathing him makes no difference whereas brushing him daily helps a hell of a lot more, must be airating his coat?? Of my two Cavalier girls one hardly smells 'doggy' at all and needs bathing far less often than the younger, which also happens to have a heavier coat, which could have something to do with it. I have a friend who swears that Grey horses smell stronger and different to other colours?? :D I knew a fellow who had lost his sense of smell in an accident and he had two GSD's in his workshop/office. It reeked because he did nothing at all to prevent a bad smell and had heaps of 'fur bunnies' all over the place when the two dogs moulted. It wasn't good for his business and when he was made aware of it he cleaned up and left the dogs at home. I think the lengths you have gone to sound more than adequate.

You've got to be kidding me...surely they should know that offering your dog to many "choices" is what leads to "finicky" animals in the first place???

I agree but there is more chance if you do take them to the show ... Do you have any proof of this? I would be suprised if you did, because I doubt it is true. Ask any vet about the number of pets (who have never been near a show ring) that contract Parvo each year. Some have not even left their yards! others get it from footpaths, visitors etc. Showgrounds and other exibits are not the only source of infection. I feel that the average exhibitor/breeder is more likely to pay attention to disease control than the average pet owner, and would feel much safer with my dog at a dog show than at other places dogs frequent (ovals, footpaths, free run areas, beaches etc) Plenty of bitches pick up infections and have not been to a dog show while pregnant! (and the vet in question in the example given previously could have no way of knowing where the infection was picked up, so to state that the vet KNEW it was picked up at a show is irresponsible) An infection could be picked up by a dog being sent to the groomers. A new puppy in the household is then put at risk too. You can pick up an infection brushing against someone in a Supermarket checkout line or at a Petrol Station or standing at Assemby at your kids school, or walking across a nature strip to your car...the possibilities are endless.

It'd be easy to tell with a Cavalier...she's the one whose completely 'blown' her coat!!

I think that's a great idea Lolapalooza but if the new buyer decides they want to change this to a friend or relative they can do so.

Great statement....I agree. Yes, it is a great statement and I totally agree with it in essense....however it does bother me, (and I'm sure this bothers all breeders) that this also means that the greater majority of YOUR breed is out there in the community having been bred by BYB, Puppy Millers and those that do no health checks and do nothing to improve the breed or produce a quality representation of YOUR breed. But I'm not really sure if anything can be done about this under the current climate.

Sadly, I did this. A really stunning dog from my first litter went to a great obedience home on LR. The agreement being that when he was older, if the owners were interested in showing, the dog could be evaluated by a trusted person who lived where they did and if all checked out, then he could be elevated to Main Register. This was done. Some time later, I sold the couple a bitch from the repeat breeding on Main Registration. To my absolute horror and disgust, I discovered some time later that they had let full brother and sister produce a litter.....ALL of which were sold on Main Register. Never, EVER again!!! My puppies that are sold on Limited Register now STAY on Limited Register. If they're too good to be on Limited Register and in a pet home, then they stay with me. It's as simple as that! The buyer and I sat down and had a chat about breeding, health checks etc. Basically I told her that the puppy I'm keeping is one I have hopes for and that I will have full control over who she is bred with and whether she is bred again etc. The puppy I have sold her is one I have decided not to keep and therefore is offered on Limited Register to a Pet home for that very reason..that I'm not choosing to bred her on and therefore don't want anyone else to do so. I told her if she is serious about getting involved in the breed we could talk later but at this point the puppy will remain on the Limited Register. She is happy with that, has signed a desexing agreement, which I know isn't worth anything legally, but I wont be giving the $100 dollar refund on desexing that I have offered to anyone who hasn't signed it or who tries to breed the bitch, and then desex her.

I have kept my 'pick". My hope that the others be "pets" is that they stay in a home for life and not get moved on as I see happen with many "breeders" dogs. It's not something I'm ready to see happen with the first litter I've bred. I'm not "seasoned' enough for that yet.

There's Shetland Sheepdog in the mix too. The breed is affected by CEA. I think there's at least two (possibly three) types that are trying to be recognised as new breeds. Silken windhound and silken windsprite aka longhaired whippet, that has sheltie in it. Not sure if I've got that right, it's all very confusing and contentious in whippet circles because of the way Walter Wheeler insisted there was a long hair gene in whippets and he just bred with it. There's never been longhaired whippets, wire haired, yes, and even today you see some whippets with quite harsh coats, which by the way is a fault. Walter Wheeler also bred shelties and I dont think genetic testing was around when he was doing his shonky breeding but it's all been proven now. There are still those who insist he just used whippets though. at least the silken windhound people were up front about crossing breeds though. I guess "Designer Dogs" go back a long way. Also I guess trying to establish a new breed must have had it's place as Pedigree Dogs records became more controlled.

Sorry, not trying to be patronising, just stating that we cannot control the behaviour of all those who cross our paths, for example I've often seen cases of "very nice people" surrendering their dogs for what to me (IMO) seems a lame reason. I'm not judging them, just stating that their decisions are, exactly that, their decisions and are out of our hands. I find your vasectomy/tubal ligation to be a possible viable alternative.

We must all do what we feel is best for the welfare of those we are responsible for being on this planet. But as I've said before , desexing only controls whether or not the dog will be used for breeding. I am not at the point where I think desexing an infant is right (for me anyway). It does not preclude a dog from a life of mysery, mistreatment, neglect or prevent it from ending up in a Pound or as a Rescue case. Prospective buyers need to be screened for more than just the potential to breed the dog IMO there is far worse that can happen.

Poor darling probably thinks they haven't had a decent feed since she was separated from them! Nothing like mums cooking you know.

Ahh..if you were truly jaded and cynical you would not bother to share the wealth of your experience and knowledge with others.

And the poor dogs wouldn't have lasted long had it been a snake!!

I think there are 'steps' to take and if all else fails...or we are let down continually there will be more 'steps' taken. I pride myself on being a good judge of character. I've had enquiries that have made my hairs on my neck stand on end (literally) and I ask a hell of a lot of questions. Almost tie people up in knots sometimes with my questioning, bit of a "Pet detective". Cynicism comes from being let down continually and this may happen to me. There are already screening processes I will add and change to make sure I've done the best I can for my puppies. We do need some trust in this world after all.