Starkehre

Thanks for the PM Bokezu, I have replied. Get well soon Jordy.

I wasn't brave enough to risk it with the imuran. I am sorry you ran out of time Danois, and I understand about the risk. I am thinking that maybe the other drug Bokezu mentioned they gave Jordy last night to help him get started was the Cyclosporin, as that is the one that does just that. I don't mean to seem like a nosey parker, but I am really worried about Jordy. I hate it that I have such an invested interest in this disease, but that is what happens when you have had it before. I really hope Bokezu is busy giving Jordy kisses and hugs because he is feeling so much brighter. Naturally I do not expect her to be rushing back here to inform us of how he is going. She will let us know when she can and wants to.

Thanks Danois, yep Azathioprine (is the other name for Imuran and is the one you can't touch). I have just dragged out our old bag of left overs. Dyzney was also on Misoprostol and Cyclosporin. The Cyclosporin is the quite expensive one. We also ended up giving Ondancitron a go just before the 5 weeks point to try to settle her ulcerated tummy so she would eat, but unfortunately one of the side affects of it was more nausea, so we stopped that within 24 hrs. Am hoping for good news with Jordy this morning. Hope you got some sleep Bokezu.

Hope tomorrow brings some good news for Jordy Bokezu. Try and get some sleep if you can.

Thanks fd. What a little sweety she was too. I wondered if that was Ruby. Regarding the muscle atrophy, you will not have had hardly any as it seems to be more predominant in large breeds. You were really lucky with your fast and great results with treatment. That is excellent. I hope it will be as good for Jordy. Yes cortisone increases appetite and thirst. However with dyz because she was so sick, she didn't eat hardly anything for 5 weeks, nausea and stomach ulcers. Seriously day 35 was her first day after day one that she ate and did not bring it up again. Each previous day she either would not eat or the small amount she would eat came up. We felt happy when she managed to keep one cm square of boiled chicken down for 2 hrs. that is how bad it got. With the thirst it is tricky also, as they require the extra water that they are craving, so you cannot withold it, but when they are that unwell, if they have too much at once they will bring it all up again. that was a real juggle for us. I remember counting and only letting dyz have 15 laps every 2 hrs. if she had anymore she would vomit. It was terribe. But all cases are different. My Ruby was not as bad as dyzney. ruby responded to the drugs quicker and better, probably more like fd's ruby. but because of the atrophy and her being barely able to walk and breathe, after 2 months (even though we felt she was on track) we PTS anyway, cause her quality of life was so poor. Plus the vets said there was probably roughly 50% chance of it recurring. I think now that maybe that was not accurate, but it is over now anyway, so no point dwelling. Back then I had to leave home for work and everything was different. But when Dyz got sick, we fought longer and harder. I was not going to let this disease get another dog of mine.

fiery_di, do you mind me asking what breed of dog your ruby was please? I am very sorry to hear you had one with an ITP also, but glad you managed it when meds. Dyzney was on Imuran also plus a couple of others that I can't remember the name of. but we managed to have her weaned within 4-5 months, so we were extremely lucky.

Thanks for the update Bokezu. I am sorry to hear Jordy has not picked up as yet, but usually it does take a couple of days for the meds to kick in. Hopefully this transfusion will be enough to help him along while his body is absorbing the cortisone. Will there be a vet nursing and monitoring him tonight or is he at a regular vet? I am sending Jordy all the healing messages that I can muster.

I hope he does too DW. such a sad story. Poor lad, and poor you to be having to cope with all this.

Good luck, and keep us posted if you don't mind.

Hey Bokezu, just though you might like to have a look at this. This is a link to the write up the AEC did about Dyzney. Of course they changed her name and the arthritis thing was not correct, it was a lameness which at the time we suspected sesamoid, but as it turned out later it wasn't. But anyway, you may find it informative and helpful. http://www.aecvets.com.au/cases/cases.html

I am so sorry Nek. It is very sad for poor Diesel. I don't know how you manage to look at him each day, it must be so hard for you. Give him a hug for me please.

Bokezu, thanks for letting us know how it is all going. Yes, IMT is said to be possibly brought on by stress, but unless it was ridiculously huge amounts of stress, I doubt it. If the body is under sudden stress from over loads of exercise it can occur also. It is one of those, you may never know what brought it on, which is scary as you cannot avoid it again. Hopefully it was the stress, but if it was so recent, I doubt it. They don't usually go down that fast. Has he been swimming in any dams. These may have polutants, chemicals, blue/green algae in it. Toxins that come up from the ground, sprays. Walking through orchards that have had sprays spread around. I would be racking my brain over things like that. Laying on sleepers, these give off toxins. It is more likely to be chemical or similarly caused, and over the last 2-3 months, closer to 2 months. And usually the downhill loss of platelets is gradual, and can be showing no clinical signs for a couple of months until they reach rock bottom, then you see everything. Those outward clinical signs were probably owing to anaemia and temperature loss. I remember now Dyzney's platelet count was 4 when she was first rushed in. My girlfriend's dog recently passed from IMHA, but did not have IMT. These immune mediated diseases are really horrible. Hope Jordy has improved over night, and hopefully more improvement today. It becomes a waiting for the drugs to kick in game, hoping that in the mean time the dog does not crash and bleed out. I too am surprised about him not having transfusions. sure they are not always enough to do much, but they kept Dyz alive whilst we waited for the drugs to kick in. She was bleeding into her intestines and gut. Good info Rappie. I forget much of the technical stuff. And you are right Bokezu, it is very confusing. It might also pay to have a chat with your vet about just how much experience he/she has had with the disease. Their knowledge varies tremendously. Over the duration I have spoken with more than 10 specialist vets, and although much of their knowledge marries up, they also disagree on a lot of stuff, so that can be hard also. Get well Jordy

Bokezu, is Jordan staying in overnight? Is he is an emergency centre having 24hr supervision? I hope you have some good news tonight about him. If they are set up to, they will probably be running in house bloods to get some idea of how his platelets are going. I hope you get good news soon. I have everything crossed for you. Did you know that IMT is much rarer in males? Definitely predominantly a bitch disease. Danois, sorry to hear about Angs. He looks gorgeous boy. DW, I hope Diesel manages to continue coping for a while yet. Hang in there.

Oh poor Jordan, then it does sound serious Bokezu. No platelets! We had extremely low levels in dyzney, but still she required 5 blood transfusions and 3 plasma transfusions within the first 5 days. she was critical. the bleeding risk is mostly internal, gut, brain etc. You will usually see small pin prick of blood on the gums and some blood in the faeces and in the urine, but not always. Severe cases can throw up blood also. Temp drop and lethargy are signs of imminent crash. With both mine, they were perfectly fine as far as I coulf see, the over night they looked like death warmed up. absolute shock. Vets initially thought poisoning, of course I knew it wasn't. When the vet suggested IMT when I presented dyzney, I just said "no, it can't be, I have already had it before". It is a rare enough disease as it is, well not extremely rare, but rare enough to be a shock to have 2 dogs get it. Man, I wish you luck, I really do. I am glad Jordan was feeling bright and happy to see you. Have you any idea what caused this. It will depend on if it is primary or secondary, but if it is primary has he had any drugs or vaccinations in the 2-3 months, as that is the time frame. If it is secondary they may well want to run a plethera of tests for bone marrow cancer and other nasties. Of course the primary form of IMT is idiopathic (you never really know for sure what causes it), but you can generally work it out. We suspect Stibestrol with Ruby (incontinence drug) and Rimadyl with dyzney (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory). Yes, please feel free to contact me. I can give you my number if you want to talk. Hopefully Jordan will respond quickly and well to the pred. Nek, how is poor Diesel?

OK, this is the photo of Dyz, same shrunken head. Their tummies became so distended just from them not having any top line to carry it anymore. I was so concerned when emptying them that their legs would break, as they would fall over so easily. Just remembering what we went through during the time when both girls were sick is bringing it all back again. It is still so raw for me. I really hope your boys platelets pick up quickly. Oh, I just remembered something else, another of the drugs that can help supress the immune system can cause stomach ulcers and nausea. When Dyzney finally got to the point where her bloods were on the improve, yet she was still on so much and so many different medications, we went through a period of about a week where after all the IC and everything else, we nearly lost to emmaciation and stomach ulcers. She would not eat, owing to nausea, and when she did, she could not keep anythign down owing to stomach ulcers. they couldn't put a stomach tube in because of fear of the bleeding starting again, I swear it was the most horrific nightmare of my life.

Hi Bokezu, I feel sick to the stomach to hear your young lad has contracted IMT. I have had 2 bitches with this awful disease an so can forward you a fair bit of info on the subject. Cortisone almost immediately causes muscle atrophy in dogs, but more so in larger dogs. Generally the larger the breed, the more severe the atrophy. Even small doses given over a short period of time for other treatments I have found noticeable loss of head within 48 hrs. This has returned though. You may find it less so in your Vizsla. Muscle atrophy spread throughout the body owing to cortisone use whether it be short, mid or long term use will normally restore provided exercise etc is also restored. But other criteria come into play also such as hormones. If your male is an entire, which I assume he is, and if he remains entire then there is an excellent chance of his body muscle returning and a reasonable chance of his still developing into a full entire male head. As Nek says, the loss of head is also an atrophy of the muscle, it is not skull related. There are other drugs they can give the dogs that suppress the immune system like the pred does, that do not cause the muscle atrophy, however, from my experience I believe they always like to start with the cortisone, and you can change it over later. I am assuming from your post that the vets do not seem overly concerned about your boy, perhaps his platelets have not dropped too low. Hopefully you have caught it nice and early. I really hope he is OK. I perfectly understand your concerns about the muscle atrophy, as it sounds as though it may be your only concern at this stage, and I truely hope it is. Unfortunately for us, the atrophy was the least of our worries. Both cases were life and death issues, intensive care, and on going treatment for months. To IMT I lost one of my bitches Ruby, and the other one that survived Dyzney, well put it this way, none of her specialists can believe that she pulled through from IMT. She had the worst case they had ever seen, that the dog actually survived. So we are very lucky to still have Dyzney. I wish you all the very best of luck with your boy. I am more than happy to chat further about the disease if you would like some more info, just PM me. Actually here is a pic of each of my girls. The first one of Ruby a couple of days before she passed. And the other of Dyzney. You can see that both bitches lost their heads completely and had complete muscle wastage to the point where they needed asistance to walk. Ruby also struggled to breath when she lay down, she became so weak with lack of muscle. Cortisone is a disgusting drug that does some horrible things, yet it is also a brilliantly amazing drug. If it didn't exist I would not still have my Dyzney today.

Great news Mr R & NR, Nel is very cute. I find that many dogs are not fond of wet towels or wet anything really. some don't mind, but clearly NellieRose is not happy with it. So for dogs like her and my Dyzney, just ensure the Pads are dry before using them. The fabric will dry out. As I also mentioned before Dyzney does not like the feeling of the fabric so I pop a dry towel on top of her Pad, and then she is more than happy to use it. As a rule dogs find cool bedding really unusual, so some can find it aversive or even a bit frightening. So, it comes down to firstly knowing when they really require cooling and not just because we are warm we think they are struggling with the heat (more often than not dogs handle the heat very well) and secondly, you may need to put some training in to show the dogs that the pad is a safe place to be. The mahority of dogs will not just automatically leap onto a brand new Polar Pad or similar product and decide this is a wonderfully cool place to be without any gentle introduction. It may take time and patience, and I find integrating the Pad use when crating even if just initially a great way to introduce. Last week Grumpette was telling me about the old Mal that she purchased a Polar Pad for is almost living on it now. This is a dog that was really struggling in the heat. If the dogs are coping well in the weather, they tend to know that they do not need the Pad. In the mean time, put in a bit of quality time training, and when the dog is really feeling the heat, they will enjoy their Pad.

I have Polar Collar Extenders arriving this week or next week, so for anyone needing to make their Collars bigger, we can now accommodate them also. Also Size 4 Polar Collars for the thick necked dogs are now available.

Glad your Polar Pad arrived in time for this next bout of warm weather Oonga. I am sure Maia will appreciate it. And you will love your Polar Collar also. My website and email address had a small hiccup (something to do with the server) but is all sorted now. ... and there is definitely something wrong with my end... too much yummy food and not enough exercise, Been down to the river recently?? I must join you some time. Jag and I went to the pool yesterday, and even though there was no other dogs there, he still scrambled in by himself. It looks so funny. He jumps in with the front legs, then bottoms out with his tummy for a few seconds while he eventually gets his back legs in also. I figure there is less chance of him hurting himself by scrambling in than if I am trying to lift him over the side, and he will not use the ramp to get in, not without a fight and me getting some help. He gets out well on the ramp now though, so that makes me feel a bit better.

Hi Fiona, it depends on the intended application. Provided the use is not for the base of a crate when Morty is locked inside, then I suggest either a size 4 or a size 5, depending on what you want to spend. Well we don't close him into a crate at all - his K9 is for sleeping in and we leave the front unzippered throughout the night - he just stays there ..... its for the backroom (sunroom) where he has a tramp bed and access to the backyard - just to give him a cool option to lie on as the air con won't be installed in that room when the rest of the house is being done in a few weeks time .... So a 4 or 5 would work for that? Thanks for the explanation Fiona. Absolutely 4 or 5 will be fine for Morty. If you feel that you really want him to be able to get all of his body onto the pad with nothing hanging over, then you would be better off getting him the 5. If you are happy to understand that quite often the dogs just wish to put a section of their body onto the Pad, then fel free to go down to the 4. Hope that makes sense. Have a great day. I am going out today with the float trialing. OK, so it is not going to be as hot as I had originally thought, so really I ned not have bothered. but, what I have done is prepared my size 5 Polar Pad yesterday by top up axctivating soak. Towel dried it off a bit and popped it on the line for a few hrs. Late yesterday arvo it was bone dry on the outside and beautifully ready for use. I have it inside the float berth I will have my bitch in, and I have put a towel over the top, as she prefers the feeling of a towel under her than the Pad fabric. It is alongside her normal bed in there, so she has her choice. anyway, when I went out there this morning to check it all, the berth was so cool. I was much cooler than the other (and they are separated by a storage compartment so completely separate), so the pad had cooled the berth down over night. Very interesting. So anyway Dyzney will probably not use the Pad, because she doesn't feel the heat too bad and will only use it if she is extremely hot, but I love the cooling affect it has created in her berth. I am thrilled about that. Her Collar is in there also, and will stay on her when she is in her crate ringside.

Hi shmoo, Greyhounds all take the size 1 Polar Collar. all the Polar Collars are the same price $14.95 plus postage. Ebay or my website, all the same. Cheers.

Hi Fiona, it depends on the intended application. Provided the use is not for the base of a crate when Morty is locked inside, then I suggest either a size 4 or a size 5, depending on what you want to spend.

Oh, that is excellent news shmoo. Very glad to hear it, and I appreciate you letting me know. OK, so to go back on my last post to lisat, now I have never heard of any dog that has had a Polar Collar come off... unless it was over soaked or another dog has grabbed it off.

Hi lisat. I would not be concerned about your Lab chewing the Polar Collar. To date I have only heard of the one coming off a dog, so it is not common or easy for them to come off, unless grabbed by another dog. If by chance your dog was wearing a Polar Collar and somehow it did come off, and he did chew it and ingest some of or all of the Polymer, there is no reason this will harm your dog. The crystal polymers are non-toxic and safe to ingest. Naturally it is preferable that they remain inside the product and not in the dogs stomach, but not a big issue. As the Collar will be activated when the dog is wearing it, and will not have enough time to dehydrate during the course of one day, it will still be activated even at the end of the day. If however the Collar was in the dehydrated form, this is the time that owners must be vigilent with storing the products away from the dogs. If they eat them while dehydrated, the moisture inside the dog's gut will cause the crystals to swell and could result in bloat or other gut issues. I would not recommend a Polar Pad to be used unattended for any dog that is likely to be a chewer. It is not a cheap product and if it gets chewed, if nothing else it is a waste of money. Also, there are a lot more crystal polymers inside the pad, so the dog may make himself sick if he ate them all. The fabric on the pads is very tough and not easy to chew, but certainly not chew proof. I hope this information is helpful.

I can second everything SB says. We too have been rapt with our Advantage. We had a couple of minor issues in the beginning, but they were all sorted out promptly and in a friendly manner. The guys are easy to deal with, personable and helpful. Our float was pretty much completely custom designed, and the guys managed to fit in all our requirements and make it work really well. Very accommodating. Definitely worth having a look.