Tapua

What do you mean by Agility/flyball not being an indication of temperament- do you mean in their ability to work stock or their temperament in general? im your age nearly and i have 2 kelpies and they a perfect for my lifestyle. Wouldnt want any other dog.I dont find kelpies demanding and i have had a few in my years, as pups you have to train them just like any other dog, if you want more out of them thats your choice. Yes you are right ,It does come down to pick the right dog for lifestyle, but hasnt that always sort of been the case. I run my dogs x country every morning for an hr and they love it. My 6 month old girl you wouldnt even known she was in the house from day one, she has never chewed anything, cried , been naughty in any way. I could almost say the perfect angel:=) Hi Sandra Another brain-fart on my part sorry I should have added I had bone cancer 6 years ago and 1/3 of the anterior tibia was removed, 5 months in hospital, a further 12 months in a wheelchair. Although I have returned to full time work now, even though I am back in my feet I am seriously restricted - I would have trouble running to the bathroom let alone running cross country. I have 1 geriatric show titled Kelpie couch potato who's prioity in life is to be on the couch, a borderxkelpiexcoolie who does obedience (there was an brief article about us in the January Dogs NSW journal) and our 2 labs bitches. With hopefully one in pup. I hope that better explains why I find the Labs better suit my lifestyle. know where your coming from. My eldest boy has spent 4 years having a new femur cultured, as he had none or a patella due to a near fatal accident.45 ops on,It does limit ones movement. wow ;) Sorry to hear about your boy. I must say though my most stable and reliable support at the time was my old Kelpie, ( my current girls grandmother) who constantly stayed by my bed and was there whenever I needed her. She made me laugh and she let me cry - Kelpies are fantastic emotional support

What do you mean by Agility/flyball not being an indication of temperament- do you mean in their ability to work stock or their temperament in general? im your age nearly and i have 2 kelpies and they a perfect for my lifestyle. Wouldnt want any other dog.I dont find kelpies demanding and i have had a few in my years, as pups you have to train them just like any other dog, if you want more out of them thats your choice. Yes you are right ,It does come down to pick the right dog for lifestyle, but hasnt that always sort of been the case. I run my dogs x country every morning for an hr and they love it. My 6 month old girl you wouldnt even known she was in the house from day one, she has never chewed anything, cried , been naughty in any way. I could almost say the perfect angel:=) Hi Sandra Another brain-fart on my part sorry ;) I should have added I had bone cancer 6 years ago and 1/3 of the anterior tibia was removed, 5 months in hospital, a further 12 months in a wheelchair. Although I have returned to full time work now, even though I am back in my feet I am seriously restricted - I would have trouble running to the bathroom let alone running cross country. I have 1 geriatric show titled Kelpie couch potato who's prioity in life is to be on the couch, a borderxkelpiexcoolie who does obedience (there was an brief article about us in the January Dogs NSW journal) and our 2 labs bitches. With hopefully one in pup. I hope that better explains why I find the Labs better suit my lifestyle.

What do you mean by Agility/flyball not being an indication of temperament- do you mean in their ability to work stock or their temperament in general? Hi Woofenpup I Probably got tired typing after a while - so I didnt explain myself well - either type of breed can do flyball/agility exceptionally well so if you are particularly looking for working ability I would like to see the parents working.

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) Began breeding ANKC Kelpies in 1991 but I have had bred,owned working Kelpies for 4 years prior. At the time had 6 working Kelpies and 1 bench dog. I focussed on the bench dog because there was a drought ... again ... and placed our workers with another stud because they needed to be working and we were doing contract work at the time - which dried up in the drought...literally. The bench dog I had at the time adjusted best to home life. Showing was a novel easy pastime - I preferred obedience. 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? Stock dogs originated from English imports black sort coated prick eared bogs from the north of England. A red pup was born in the litter, alleged to be a 'dingo' the pup was given away - the pup was called Kelpie - Celtic term meaning 'Water Sprite'. Various short coated, pricked eared dogs were mated and the term Kelpie seemed to stick. Lots of myth and mystery after this time and th developement. Basically a smooth coated, prick eared medium sized dog suited the ag needs for a tough stock dog. 3. How common is it in Australia? Very common - working lines - bench dogs however have a restricted gene pool due to the changes in the 1960's when the ANKC did not recognise the WKC lines after a period of time. They are one breed genetically but two different registrations and for the most part gene -pools. This created alot of political resentments and finger pointing. Some working dog people said bench dogs couldnt work - unfortunately bench dog people wouldnt proove that their dogs did work - but continued to claim and sell dogs that didnt work with no gaurantee of return - cashing in on the public assumption that all Kelpie can work stock. This festered the resentments between the groups for many years. 4. What is the average lifespan? 15 years +- 2 years 5. What is the general temperament/personality? An honest dog - open faced and friendly - shy or timid and aggressive dogs should not be tollerated either around stock or in the show ring. Intelligent, problem solver, touch sensetive, amusing, strong willed at times, respond well to motivational training. Not a breed you can bully to obey - you have to earn their respect and loyality - Amusing character they will tell you off if you do dumb. I think they can laugh at you at times. Great company. They are generally only 'obedient and loyal' to one person becasue that person provides security and stability for them - they can very sweetly ignore and dissobey anyone they dont know or like. - rather amusing to watch. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? Some need to excercise daily some don't - they all should have an off switch. The greater the working instinct the greater the need for excercise and mental stimulation. I have met some really really dumb Kelpies. ]7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? Maybe - if the first timer is active and keen to bond and be involved. Great dog for a teenager/young or single adult who wants his/her own space. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? I dont think they are suited to be alone - they need company - both human and canine. particulary when young. They are like all dogs and are creatures of routine - so older dogs cope being alone for 8-12 hours when I have been at work but I wouldnt like to leave a youngest alone for that long - god knows what the back yard would be like!!!! 9. How much grooming is required? Very little - bitches tend to malt when in season, dogs, in the summer. Coat must be stripped when dropping or heat spots can develop. Like all dogs they are susseptible to fleas, mange. Creams/fawns are more sun sensitive particularly if their nose is pink. 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? As long as the dog is 'owned' by an adult - I have found Kelpies to be remarkably gentle and kind with children - they seem to understand kids and accommodate their boisterousness to their size and youth. 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? Cerebellar Abiotrophy CA is creeping into the bench dogs due to ignorant breeding practices but the condition has been in working lines for some 20 years. Mode of inheritance is Autosomal Resessive. Research currently occuring to issolate the DNA marker. Hips are becoming an issue though I would argue there is poor understanding of the scores and a niave belief that kelpies DONT had high hip scores. I have never seen problems with the elbows. I started hip scoring in the mid 90's unfortunately very few breeders hip score and so the whole precess is becoming pointless. Temperaments and working ability are not the prioroity they could be for bench lines. Some breeders prioitising pretty dogs over the all round dog for the show ring and have bred from some very dodgy temperamented and dumb dogs and bitches and it shows in their progeny. Temperaments in work line can be too independant for many handlers. 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (e.g. what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) Visit the kennels and meet the sire (if there) and the dam - dont be bluffed by the Championship titles they are pretty meaningless in Australia - I would take note of any herding tials or obedience results in the lines. If they say 'both parents work' then I would like to see them working. If I was buying for stock purposes. Agility- flyball are debatable indicators of temperament. Ask about hip/elbows but you would be lucky to find people who do it consistantly. Breed average for Kelpies hips 12.5. Assess you life-style and you requirements. Compared to other breeds I have owned and trained (GSD's,ACD's, Labradors, Border Collies's) Kelpies are demanding and the ones with a reasonable to strong working ability can be very demanding. The age I am now (48), health and lifestyle suits the Labradors - I wouldnt return to Kelpies now. But they were great when I was younger and single.

Hi Poodlefan - true fox red is a very uncommon coat colour. There are plenty of Labs around that carry a dark yellow coat but true fox red is almost non existent. Below is an interesting link. http://www.littleriverlabs.com/foxred2.htm I has met a couple of people who think their dogs are fox red but I would probably call them a rich deep yellow. The Little River dog in the USA are a unique colour. I am having trrouble uploading the pics so if you have a look at our website in the Lab Family section there are some pics of the pups from our first litter - one in particular looked potentially fox red but to look at them both now at 5 months they are just a deep rich yellow to me! Though darker than I have seen for a long time . More like the yellow labs I remember as a kid. http//:www.tapualabs.com

Apart from the big three eye,hips,elbows I would say. 1 The 'aware' public ...and I use the term 'aware' loosley ... who although they seem to be asking the health questions dont understand the answers and expect perfection is achievable in type, movement, temperament,colour as well as hips/elbows/eyes. :p 2 The buyer who really really wants the pup but will not feed, socialise, excercise let alone train in the most important first 12 months. Dispite screeds of information, emails and phone calls. 3 Lack of mentoring for the new breeders - though forums like this have alot to offer new breeders. In my experience with Lab breeders I have met some incredibly open and honest breeders who are willing to offer guidance without interferance. I have also met ( and this pertains mostly to my previous breed of 18 years) breeders who are paranoid, controlling and have a very annoying habit of miss-informing newbies of the health and other other issues behind their line but really really quick to tell you every other kennels problems. ;)

Hi I have Labs too - ditto about the sore mouth - I used teddys, soft toys anything like that - no balls - I dont use food because my labs are such pigs they are distracted by the food and stare at me and drool. But soft toys are good, tease and throw a short distance - maybe 2 metre away and gently call you dog back. Get down on the ground with her/him and pat infront. Lots of praise and do it again. More than 4 times and the pups brain freezes and gets bored - pups have short concentration times but learn by repetition. Give it a go but keep the game very short and novel. and repeat the process a couple of times a day the pup should catch on ... I hope