Bullbreedlover

My dogs will do pretty much anything for my daughter, including giving her food, but it's definitely conditioned and nothing to do with pecking order. The main objection I would have to using terms like "pecking order" is that people might form unrealistic ideas about how risky their child's and dog's behaviour is based on their perception of pecking order. As PF has said, the lowest ranking wolves will resource guard from the highest ranking wolf. Puppies will resource guard, too. There doesn't seem to be a canid, wild or domestic, that gives a fig about how big or small or dominant or submissive they are when it comes to resource guarding. So if people believe that their two year old occupies a higher rung on the pecking order, and that this will prevent resource guarding, then they could be in for a tragic shock. Similarly, if people believe that it is a good idea to let their child handle their dog while eating because this will elevate their spot in the pecking order, they too could be in for a tragic shock if this is the extent of their knowledge of dog behaviour. While I admit I dont know who you are, and seemingly you have no idea who I am, I find your post clearly insinuating that my knowledge of dog behaviour is seriously lacking. Clearly it seems that your knowledge and if I may be so bold quite alot of peoples knowledge(not yours poodlefan) of dog behaviour is seriously lacking. You have replied to my post Aidan2. Do you know my puppy people?(the dog is question is now 5 years old and is an entire male Bullmastiff who weighs approximately 60 kilos)The children are now 9 and 11. Perhaps if you did know my puppy people you wouldnt of posted such a dumb arse post like you did. I...yes me... (instructed my puppy owners(two very responsible people) to bring this boy up this way. Granted you may think that the extent of my knowledge of dog behaviour is somewhat limited.Thats fine. I dont think it is limited but we are all still learning. If you are not bringing up your dogs to learn to respect your children and for your chilrden to be greater than a dog in the pecking order then I would like to suggest that maybe you should seriously think about doing so. eta of course you should also be bringing up your children to respect your dogs and their space but in no way should your children be lower in the pack order.

Shall now wait for tobie to answer!

Not directed at you personally Stonebridge, but a range of folk have posted about doing this in this thread and many others. You posted: Not a practice I'd ever recommend. As I said, lower ranks in a pack hierarchy still defend food. The practice is no guarantee of pack status, especially if you are not present. Not sure that's a message that gets through to the kids though. I also posted about dangers of having a child generalise a behaviour they practice with the family dogs to others dogs - a real risk IMO. No where did i say that the children were by themselves, just in case you were implying they were It is not a practice I would recommend to each and every person either. Every family situation will be different. This was done under controlled circumstances and lets be honest, how can you comment like you did when you have no idea what those circumstances were. Not directed at me personally, but really, it was. The two young children in this household are above the dog in pecking order and they always have been. These children can, in their own property sit, down and wait command this dog. If you dont believe me thats fine. I dont care. The feed issue here is not the only circumstance that develops a pecking order. Holy heck I was feeding my parents dogs when I was 5. I was showing them at 8 years old. I know there are totally irresponsible owners out there who simply do not have a clue. But if you think I, my puppy owner and the rest of my family are irresponsible then I would like to suggest that you think again

As this thread and others on the forum have demonstrated, there are people who think encouraging a child to interfere with a dog's food reinforces the child's higher place in the pack order. Pity more people don't own and use crates for feeding times IMO. This is a text book bite incident that will be played out in dozens of family homes this year. All lthe sadder because its easy to prevent and in sensationalising the incident, the media do nothing to assist. Before I post again I would like to ask you both if your posts refer to me and what I have said?

I think "participated" would be the key factor. Did any of your children feed your dogs by themselves with you not present? I think as long as the "leader of the pack" is present supervising the process of children feeding dog... dog feels secure. Maybe it is different when the "Leader" goes out of sight or is not present with the child as appears to have happened in the Toddler's situation? Of course the Pack leader was always present as in every situation I have outlined. Including the boarding kennel owner. (My dogs respect her as well) It is one of those requirements explained earlier. Good old common sense!

I am presuming you are talking about my post. If so, I am not saying that this type of training will work for every single family and every single dog and would never advocate novice owners in doing this unless they fully understand what I am talking about. No dog is absolutely 100% bomb proof. They are after all..dogs. But understanding dog behaviour, dog aggression and human pack order and having common sense is a requirement

The vet clinic we used back home in NZ was just the best. If you needed to talk to them on the phone it wasnt a problem. The receptionists always knew who we were and would relay a message or the vet would take the call or phone back. When I worked at the same vet clinic, they were always ready to help. The vets were wonderful. I so wish I could of bundled my vets up in a suitcase LOL and brought them over too. Their table side manner surpasses any other vet I have ever had to take my dogs to over here. Not saying that the vets here havent been good. When our older vet moved back to his home town all the major clients were invited to his farewell.

Have to disagree there. In your opinion when is a child old enough to be included in the pecking order? When it is too late?

I find these replies very interesting. My dogs are the lowest in the order of pack members in my family. A dog I bred (Bullmastiff), who is now 5 years old has been brought up with his family(and he is a big dog) and the children have participated in feeding him right from when they picked him up at 8 weeks old. The two children have taken food away from this dog and successfully placed it back in front of him while he was told to sit and wait. The two children have always been the higher in the pecking order. I ask you.....Is that wrong??? The dam of this dog whom I still have with me has been part of our grand daughters life. Our grand daughter could take a ball or food from her mouth. .....Is that wrong??? Where I board my dogs, one of the children who helps with feeding the dogs can safely(and I mean safely) place my dogs food bowls down without fear. Is that wrong??? Am I doing or saing something wrong when bringing up my dogs or instructing my puppy people in the pecking order of their family pet. My dogs can have their food taken away from them by my husband and myself at any stage. They get fed separately from each other as they always have been. People bring dogs up in different ways. My Bullmastiffs are food orientated NOT food aggressive. Now is someone going to tell me I am doing it all wrong??

Bullbaiting is illegal. Bullmastiffs attacking poachers would be frowned upon these days. So I guess it is the show ring then

BEEF LIVER REMEDY (USED FOR FADING PUPPIES) Large piece of Beef Liver, little bit of water, boil slowly, about 5 minutes until the blood comes out. Let cool, drain the liquid and put just 4 drops (no matter the breed) into a dropper and give to puppy. At first you give it every 2 hours for 12 hours, then every 4 hours. You can do this for however long you have to, until you feel the puppy is thriving. Don't use any of the liver itself, just the liquid. This recipe may be of help to your babies. scooby

If this is true then why are dogs who are infertile or barren allowed to be shown? Why are dogs found to have an unacceptable for breeding hip or elbow score or those found to be a carrier or affected by a disease still allowed in the ring? Why is health testing not part of the rules when or comes to titling an animal? Conformation shows are not all about judging breeding stock. Many many entire dogs and bitches that are shown and titled may not be bred from at all, for various reasons. Just because they are not bred from does not mean that they can not compete in shows. That is seriously ridiculous. Compulsory health testing is not the be end and all of the show ring either. If a dog is showing a serious lameness or affected by a disease then the owner of the dog should make the decision. I know of breeds with which their hip scores are truly not good but yet they have been bred from, with very careful planning. And some of these dogs are huge winners in the show ring. You wont be able to tell if a dog or bitch is barren/infertile unless you use them for breeding. Why should they be barred from the show ring? It is a show ring, and a judge is assessing the best of the breeds in CONFORMATION on the day. NOT their breeding worth. Breeding worth means alot of different things to different people. eta showing a desexed dog or bitch is an entirely different subject, and I have different views on this.

You were almost making it sound as if it was the parents fault they brought this person into the world. Dont sound out all parents just because YOU would have a hard time claiming someone like him as your son. The jet ski cant be sold real quick. It is part of a criminal investigation

Parents? Who would want to put their hand up and claim this trash as their own? Real parents would be ashamed of the actions of their son, but real parents would still put their hands up. As hurtful as it may be.

Now I am just going to talk about the Condamine township here, and i am sorry to say this, but those townfolk "knew" beyond doubt that their town was going to flood. The Condamine river goes right through it. It is a low lying town with a huge flooding river going through it. I have been there when we used to make hay a couple of years ago. They say they werent given notice. How much notice do they need? They could of got all their pets out to safety way before the town flooded. I dont know where the RSPCA were. I dont where animal advisors were. It makes me angry but it also makes me so sad. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to advise people about moving early Just watching the news tonight was devastating. They showed Woolworths in Emerald(have been there) under water. The flow of the water was huge. You have to feel so sorry for everyone. My dogs and parrot are always ready to go at the drop of a hat if necessary for whatever reason. Either in the two cars or in their trailer.

I agree Puppy sniffer. Hugs paddyforever and everyone else who has ever had to evacuate with pets.

Great stuff After bringing in a big self propelled mower(which didnt work cause the grass was way too long) we managed to get hold of the farmer who owns the land next door and he is bringing his tractor down to mow a really big strip all along the boundary. So after he has done that we can at least maintain a mown strip on the outside. We found another brown as we tried to mow this morning.

Hardly the same thing and can not be compared to showing a dog. There are a hell of a lot of dogs who ended their show careers early due to emergency spaying - I bet those owners were devastated when they could no longer show their bitch and were honest enough to suck it up - I don't see why some think they are above everyone else and don't follow the same rules. But makes me wonder if they turn a blind eye to one rule - how many others do they think do not apply to them either - and still like to think they are above everyone else... Yep I know what that is like, and I would never show a desexed dog. Shame on those people who do.

Last time my dogs were seen by a vet was back in March for their vaccinations. The vet came to our place as she was also a large animal vet and was doing a farm visit down the road. So it saved me having to get the dog trailer out, drive to the vet and back etc etc. I got charged for half the mileage(split between the other visit) and I got charged one consult fee and a reduced price for the third vaccination. Yep I was happy. And she seemed like a good person to talk to about my furkids. We had some awesome vets back in NZ. Good vets are worth their weight in gold

Thanks Mita We also have our house on concrete poles so of course underneath is full of water ruts and is lovely and cool. I am really hoping this is just a one off but better safe than sorry. With farm land bordering two fences of our section(and the grass is not upkept by the owners) it looks like we have to do this ourselves to keep a really clear fence line.

OK so we have had some flooding around home over the last week. I thought to myself the other day that we needed to be on snake alert with all the water lying around. But to be honest I didnt think we would actually see one. Until today. Hubby was walking outside to go to the car before we went off to get groceries and called out to me. Slithering across the yard behind one of the cars was a King Brown and he/she wasnt in a very good mood. I immediately called out to the neighbour to give us a hand while hubby watched where the snake went to. Just heading straight for the dog area. Luckily I had made the decision not to put the dogs out in the outside runs and they were safely tucked up out of harms way. The snake went into the garage and when he discovered that he could only get out one way he became really upset. Hubby thinks he may of been able to smell the dogs etc as he clearly was not happy. So hubby and the neighbour relocated the snake. We keep the grass in our section really short(hubby only mowed it yesterday) but unfortunately the neighbouring farmland grass is quite long and we are pretty sure where he came from as such. So all in all it was quite nerve racking. Now this is the first snake we have had(that we know of) anywhere near my furkids and us and I told hubby I would ask around about snake repellent stuff. Has anyone got any recommendations or websites to visit please. Thanks edited topic

Yes parrotpea. If that situation ever arose how do you keep them safe?

I was of the impression(going by yesterdays news, and watching tonight) that the order to evacuate was compulsory and that pets were strictly not allowed on the helicopters. They may be out of the town for about a week.

While watching the news tonight they showed the evacuation of the town of Theodore in Qld. The residents gathered their pets up only to be told they had to leave them behind The residents were flown out by helicopters. It must be a devastating experience to leave your pets behind. I hope I am never ever faced with doing this because I know I couldnt cope. How do you keep them as safe as possible?

Have I missed something here? what are you doing with a PWD????? :D :D