ruthjones

I think one that had some type of clips to hold other bedding in place, I also like the two part door idea, clamps on the sides would also be handy, maybe even some hooks on the outside. Hmmm, mouldings along the top edge like cup holder, somewhere to stash scissors, etc, somewhere for the human assistant to sit on the edge, a drainage hole but some type of catchment area/tray underneath, so fluids could drain naturally but could be cleaned up easily (like a bird cage tray idea i guess) i don't know, just brainstorming

Would love to, I don't have a vet here ye though, only moved a couple months ago, let alone know one that could give me a quick response. Would it be worth getting an ai kit online and trying myself? Or would it most likely be too late by the time it arrived, let alone me working out how to do it without hurting my girl.

They have both been bred before, this is the pairing that produced the singleton we lost last year, we are not definite about when day one was, other than she was definitely bleeding on Monday 23rd, retrospectively husband says he thought she might have been a couple of days earlier but can't put a date to it. Male decided he was interested mid-late last week, she wasn't accepting of his advances until Saturday onwards, so we may have missed entirely, maybe she isn't ready yet, heck maybe they have tied when we weren't watching ( they live together) It is the normal humping happy dance, male looking like he is trying to climb a staircase, but then no tie at the end. So we are a little lost. Am going to try giving him some red meat (sorry hubby, the chops aren't for you) and separating them for a few hours and hope for something different lol. Any other tips? Indicators of certain issues or problems I can check for? Entry is possible, confirmed via latex glove with a bit of lube, didn't appear to hurt her, she was a little reluctant though, is it possible it is just still too early? I have also noticed she isn't always moving her tail out of the way so sometimes he can't even get in because he is too far away because her tail is in the way. Dogs, love them, but oh so frustrating at times! Ruth

I'm in the northwest, Wynyard (near Burnie) not sure if anyone is around here though. Ruth

Okay, my girl is in heat finally, by my reckoning she is approx 11 days, They both seem very interested and lots of hmping Behaviour, however, my boy seems unable to actually get inside her this time let alone get a tie. Now these two were fine on their own last time, she is flagging and standing for him, but after about 20 seconds of the humping Behaviour, one or the other just walks off. Should I just give them more time or is there something I should do to ummm assist them? I did try a search but apparently the word tie is not used in the breeders forum at all apparently lol. Ruth

i thought as much, lol, anyone want to babysit a beagle for a week or so in Tassie. I think he is just bored on his own.

Well Patches has come back in season, thank goodness, however this time we have another issue, separating the trio! You see, we have 3 dogs at the moment, as we bought a beagle pup in December, which is mainly my husband's dog. So we obviously don't want to compromise this litter and seeing as he is about 7 months old I thought it best to keep him apart, but he is being very silly about things. So tell me, am I being too much of a worrier and he is too young to interfere or am I doing the right thing? Ruth

Duaismadra would be cool, I believe that is roughly the translation for prize dog? Or using the first parts of your kids names gives major, could you add something to that somehow? I got my first pick of tanilbalake which is a combination of the birth places of my two cocker spaniels tanilba bay and forest lake I feel so bad that your mother could do this to you, I hope you still had a good Xmas

Yep, have clarified, apparently your prefix is able to be used for any registerable litter, no matter what breed, at least according to Dogs QLD, i.e. you can breed 10 different breeds under the same prefix if you so desire (not that I intend to, was just curious as to why the certificate doesn't show breed, I guess because it is breed irrelevant apparently) So yes your prefix application asks what breed, but apparently that is only for statisitical purposes.

Well even though the litter didn't go exactly to plan in the end, the prefix has been issued, we are now officially Tanilbalake (a combination of the birth places of my two cocker spaniels) At least next time around things should all be fairly straightforward. I did think it odd that the prefix certificate makes no reference to the breed for which it was applied. Best wishes to all Ruth

hmmm Perfect mistake happy accident child of love early honeymoon white wedding drover's match I do like destiny's child (used for our stillborn pup) and maybe appropriate lol hmmm, australian cattle dogs shephards night off baby one more time (sorry, couldn't resist) okay, sorry, I am useless lol

parkeyre - thanks, I'll check out the links dancinbcs, yes the testing was only done since the litter was sold yes she is a registered breeder and advertises pups on dogzonline, not sure exactly how she chooses the parents for each litter so i won't make assumptions there, beyond her telling me that she now only breeds her carrier to clears, since originally she had selected a pup from the litter to use in her program, whether for breeding or showing or both im unsure, but when she had him tested he is affected. so she had him desexed and is now careful not to create litters where other affected pups could be created. I guess now I am just wondering whether I have any responsibility to report the situation to any canine council etc, I did try and suggest to her to tell the other purchaser's from the litter in question, but she didn't see it as necessary and I'm not really sure what to do from here. Thanks Ruth

dancincbs - she had all the tests done after the rest of the pups from that ltter were sold, (from what i gather) prior to that she had no idea about which bitch's and dog's were carrier's etc she had all her adults tested because as she has both sexes she sometimes interchanges the combination of parents for a litter, she is now careful that she only ever mates a carrier to a clear and never two carrier's together. parkeyre - can you give me an idea of where to find the lists of recognised hereditary diseases - surely the prevalence of pra would mean that it would be on the list thanks Ruth Jones p.s. I didn't start this thread to drag anyone through any trouble, I was just concerned about other people that may have purchased a pup from this litter that i think in the circumstances should be notified to at least have their pup tested.

she has had all adults tested, she has no idea if any of the others from the litter were also affected, regarding what she is selling with breeding papers, if you mean the pedigree papers then they will all have those, statistically at least half of the litter must be carriers. if they were sold on main or limited register I don't know myself.

to put this in context, it is cocker spaniels and pra, i have it in an email directly from her to me. Ruth

Hi, I have come by some knowledge (directly from the breeder concerned) which concerns me a bit, specifically regarding disease carrying breeding stock, and at least one affected pup from a litter, and their choice not to inform the purchasers of the other pups from the litter. Is anyone in a position to advise me on the best course of action. Would rather not put full details on the forum for public viewing but will be supplied to someone in a position to advise me. Thanks Ruth

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he had moved or died at all, was just giving what Dogs Qld staff member told me as a possibility, I wonder whether the new owner claimed he couldnt contact the breeder and hence the other "ëvidence" was determined to be sufficient? Ruth

When I was in the Dogs Qld office a couple weeks ago I asked in a hypothetical manner and was told that if the Breeder was uncontactable or dead it could possibly be done if the owner had the support of specialists or judges qualified to ascertain that the dog in question was an exceptional representation of the breed. Not sure how this relates to the current situation but hypothetically it does make one worried, and determined to keep my contact details up to date! Ruth

We have decided to push her back into her normal self, all puppy related items are gone from the house, call me a sentimental fool, but the puppy itself is going to be cremated so it can stay with us in a different form (my mother and our previous dogs have also been cremated, we lost my mother to cancer when i was 15, our previous dog Rex was lost to tick paralysis in NSW, and my husband's child hood dog Jack died from old age)it also helps my oldest son in particular who was so looking forward to puppies. We have decided the puppy will be named, even though not required by regulations, said pup shall be called Destiny's child I walked Patches right through the entire house to show her that there is no puppy here, she has no interest in a puppy substitute such as a toy etc. I am sure she is grieving, she is crying so pitifully my heart breaks for her again every time. we have made his entry on the rainbow bridge page, a copy of which is below To our tiny little boy lost before your time began I am so sorry that you never had the chance to walk by our side But although you never stepped foot on the ground, your pawprints will be forever in our hearts Whilst your mummy may have thrown us an early curve ball think not for one moment that you were not wanted On the morning Patches laboured over your birth An angel opened my brand new breeder's record book and recorded just one line 26 September, 2011, 8 am, blue roan male, Destiny's child, too perfect for this earth The hearts on your coat will forever remind you that you took a piece of our heart with you Forever loved by your canine family Mummy Tilltlilly kistnpatched (Patches) Daddy Sagapore PullUpYourSocks (Socks) and your human family mummy Ruth (me) Daddy Rob and your human siblings Laura, Dan, Ryan and Nick may you bless all of us and any future puppy siblings with all of your love I am sure there are many at the Rainbow Bridge to look after you for now. Ruth we have consulted with a vet who specialises in reproduction, his opinion was that desexing was not something to be contemplated as at the end of the day, as devastating as it is, it is one puppy, and his opinion was that the odds are against a singleton in a maiden litter anyway, which in a perverse manner is reassuring, another consideration was that the circumstances didn't really call for an autopsy which could give inconclusive results anyway, his suggestion was that if Patches makes an acceptable recovery to breed her again in her next season as a singleton litter is theoretically less taxing on a bitch, and since her body won't be further depleted by feedings etc, also the positive reactions that Patches had towards the puppy, i.e. her basic instincts are correct and not of concern (I guess meaning she tried to stimulate the pup and that she wasn't trying to kill it or ignore it's birth) interestingly he was against a puppy substitute as his theory is that it would encourage her maternal hormones and may cause her to continue to produce milk etc, even without a pup feeding which then can result in mastitis etc. I discussed progesterone testing but he seemed to feel that as both bitch and dog are ours and co-habitate (etc when separated to prevent undesired litters, such as on her first heat cycle and in the future to rest her between litters) that the only gain would be knowledge of an exact ovulation date, which isnt critical in most litters anyway. We have decided to try and follow this advice (particularly after spending quite a lot of money for this opinion) although it does seem almost cruel to be planning another litter after losing her pupp just yesterday. we have also resolved to have several emergency vet clinics ready next litter, as when we called this time to make sure patches was ok (i.e. nothing retained etc) we were told the vet will be there when they can, but they are already out on an emergency, so want to make sure that we have options next time in case those circumstances could make a difference (this time around it would have been no help anyway, the attending vet was of the opinion that the pup was dead before it entered the birth canal or very shortly upon so entering, there were no indications of disfigurement due to sizing problems or being stuck as such) Ruth

To our tiny little boy lost before your time began I am so sorry that you never had the chance to walk by our side But although you never stepped foot on the ground, your pawprints will be forever in our hearts Whilst your mummy may have thrown us an early curve ball think not for one moment that you were not wanted On the morning Patches laboured over your birth An angel opened my brand new breeder's record book and recorded just one line 26 September, 2011, 8 am, blue roan male, Destiny's child, too perfect for this earth The hearts on your coat will forever remind you that you took a piece of our heart with you Forever loved by your canine family Mummy Tilltlilly kistnpatched (Patches) Daddy Sagapore PullUpYourSocks (Socks) and your human family mummy Ruth (me) Daddy Rob and your human siblings Laura, Dan, Ryan and Nick may you bless all of us and any future puppy siblings with all of your love I am sure there are many at the Rainbow Bridge to look after you for now. Ruth

I'm trying to stay positive, the way it happenned it very sad, being a singleton in a maider litter, but reality is that it is literally only one puppy, there are no obvious deformities, Patches instincts seem to be exactly right regarding her bahaviours towards the puppy after its birth, and regarding being protective of it towards everything until she establishes that there is no danger to pup. He is a gorgeous blue roan with a patch shaped like a love heart on his back. Of course hubby and I keep playing the what if game, but at the end of the day, she was running a textbook pregnancy and labour, and evenn looking back, there are no events or signs of anything being wrong, I was fairly certain I could feel puppy movements late last night, labour didn't seem to be istressing patches at all, ao stage did she appear to be pushing terribly hard or overly fast, nothing indicate anything was stuck at any point. In reality it seems like it could have been a one off occurrence, but without subsequent pups in the litter, there is nothing to distract her from the lost pup. I tried removing the puppy from her, but she actually went and took it back to the whelping box, not showing any signs or discarding it (was hoping she would do this herself at some point) but keeps trying to lick its mouth and nether regions (aka, attempting to stimulate i think) i'm just anxious regarding if she will come back into heat instantly because it was lost and therefore lose too much conditioning, or whether her body will still hold off for a reasonable time until a litter would be safe, even the vet isnt sure! Ruth

As I posted earlier, patches gave birth to a single stillborn little boy , adorable, she did all the right things but he was beyond all help from patches, us and the vet. As such, what is the best thing to do for her now, she is so sad, she tried for so long to get the little pup to breathe but it just want meant to be. (he was perfectly formed, believe he may have had difficulties during the birth. is it morbid of me to take photos of him? From what I can gather, I dont need to submit any paperwork to Dogs Qld, can anyone confirm that. There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on what the best thing to do now is, some things suggest desexing in case the fault lies with her, I am reluctant as at the end of the day, it is one dead puppy, patches still cleared the membranes and took care of the umbilical cord herself, is protective of puppy but accepted our assistance (not that it was of any use) do i let her keep the puppy or take it away, she seems to want to be with it but it is heartbreaking watching her vain attempts to rouse him. other advise has been to breed her again as quickly as possible, but at the moment i am completely lost with what to do, i am hesitant as i do not want to do anything that could cause future issues for patches my husband, kids, and of course myself are understandably very sad, who knew something you had never set eyes on could become so devastating to lose without ever having it Best wishes to all Ruth

I'm said to say that in the early hours of this morning patches gave birth to a stillborn singleton boy. The only way from here is up I guess. Thanks Ruth

okay, i'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause problems, I think I will just disappear now, It is very hard to work out what is right sometimes when so many people give so many different opinions it might be easiest if we all just forget i ever asked anything Ruth

Okay, so I have switched her back to her puppy type dry food, Advance Puppy Growth (she didn't protest the change at all, ironically it is cheaper than the one she was on) I do have a bottle of the Troy Calcium Syrup (thanks swayd, my supplies arrived yesterday) so have added that to her meat. Patches is not *overweight*, it was just that our vet suggested that the fat in a lot of meats can hinder their digestion? maybe this is an outdated theory these days? sorry, I am trying to do the best I can for my girl and for my dogs in general, but there is a lot of conflicting advice from so many different avenues that it can get very confusing I wish we could create our own ipad app, you could enter basic breed info, and ovulation/mating dates and it could populate a calendar with these types of suggestions at appropriate time frames, such as increasing food at x weeks etc should I offer my girl some nutrigel as well, or is that not really going to help at all? thanks Ruth