ILK

I used the sporn harness on my boy it only worked the first couple of times. He seemed to become immuned to it and pulled more than on a collar. I have found a check or martingale when used correctly to be the best for me. He doesn't like the sound of the chain so he doesn't pull. I guess all dogs are different so they require different methods. Good Luck.

I really hope that you find a good vet to do the job & all turns out well..... It sounds cruel, but sometimes we have to be cruel to be kind..... It sounds like you have tried everything. I hope it works out for you!

So Sorry Rexiam. RIP Rex... Run free at Rainbow bridge

OH LC I have just read about your loss. I am so sorry. She'll be doing zoomies at rainbow bridge in her little red jacket. RIP sweet Ruby

Congratulations LT. What an adorable pup Marnie is. Luv the video too

Congrats Kavik Once he recovered he was right into it again. It's good the the judge was reasonable about the food on the ground.

Tooooooo cute!!! Congratulations

So sorry Bustam. RIP Mahli ..... Until you meet again.....

RIP Dusty I still shed a tear over a very special dog that grew up with me through my childhood and I lost her 25yrs ago. Dusty will always hold a special place in your heart and give you wonderful memories, till you meet again.

I finally got a chance to read it. Great article anita. This is a comprehensive article written by some-one who seems to know what he is talking about. I'm certainly no expert, but I do find it sad that some dogs have their abilities depleted all for the sake of the show standard. I also read the Today's GSD thread and it is sad that dogs are bred to such a standard that they are not fully functional. It just doesn't seem fair to me. Thanks!

Glad you enjoyed. It's great that you are both doing so well after such a long break We do our obedience training on a Wed night and it can't come around fast enough for me.

I bought a medium sized one from my local pet supplies store recently. In my search I saw a lot of large ones in the big pet supplies warehouses. Let your fingers to the walking and ring around. Edit to add: Oh and by the way none of them new what I was talking about when I said martingale, they all called it a half check.

Sorry I posted a link above, but after doing a bit of research I wasn't happy with what I posted so I edited & removed it.

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Yey Midol, if there was a "high five" emotiocon, I would post that immediately.....

I don't want to make this debate about rescues because that is not what your thread is about, but of course it is fair to say that if one takes on a dog from a previous handler that created issues, that dog is going to be harder work than one you would get as a pup. I would only take on a dog with an issue. The way I see it, if it is a great dog then someone else will take it home - I'm prepared to put in the hard yards. Back to the original point, Obedience is not work it is, however a sport. It will be harder work for some than others.

You were saying that a Kelpie can be used as a guide dog. I was saying that I doubt many would be capable if any at all. The guide dogs I have seen have been selectively bred or have traits that have been selected to make them good working dogs. I mentioned Aust standards because someone might say they have a kelpie guide dog but but does it match up to the standards. Alot of dogs have issues created by their current handlers so I wouldnt agree with you about rescue dogs. It was an example for Midol's thread in relation to a dog working at a task it wasn't bred for. Alot of dogs do have issues created by their current handlers. Some issues are worse than others. If you take on one of those dogs you have to deal with those issues so naturally that would be more difficult than having a dog as a pup.

Oh you have answered it above. We were typing at the same time

If I wanted to say that it was limited to the task the dog was originally designed for then I would have. I didn't. It can't be limited to what the dog is bred for anyway, because a Kelpie can be used as a guide dog and it certainly wasn't bred for that, but being a guide dog is work. I would like to point out though Just Midol, you say in your original post that you wouldn't call obedience work or a sport, but a test on the handler. Someone who takes on a rescue for example will have to do a lot of hard work and work the dog hard to achieve something as low key as a pre CCD. It is a sport as there is a winner. It is not just a test on the handler it is a test on the dogs ability to follow instructions. I don't think a rescue dog is any harder than a dog you've had as a puppy. Any dog can follow instructions. Of course a rescue dog can be harder than a dog you've had as a puppy, because one is dealing with issues created by previous handlers. You haven't addressed my other comment though in relation to obedience being a sport which is what this thread is about.

I cant imagine a Kelpie being used as the norm, more of an exception and would it pass the testing in Australia? It would have to have certain traits not the norm for the breed. How is a rescue any harder than any other dog? It is a test on the handler as the dogs ability to follow instructions are as good as it has been trained to. Some dogs are harder than others but it depends on the handler as to whether it will win or not. I don't understand what you are trying to say in your first paragragh. You say "I can't imagine a Kelpie being used as the norm"? and who mentioned anything about Australian standards. A rescue can be far more difficult because one is dealing with issues created by previous handlers.

If I wanted to say that it was limited to the task the dog was originally designed for then I would have. I didn't. It can't be limited to what the dog is bred for anyway, because a Kelpie can be used as a guide dog and it certainly wasn't bred for that, but being a guide dog is work. I would like to point out though Just Midol, you say in your original post that you wouldn't call obedience work or a sport, but a test on the handler. Someone who takes on a rescue for example will have to do a lot of hard work and work the dog hard to achieve something as low key as a pre CCD. It is a sport as there is a winner. It is not just a test on the handler it is a test on the dogs ability to follow instructions.

This is an interesting point FaxonandBear..... Obedience has not come easy with my dog either. Is he a working dog? Yes. Is he doing what he was bred to do? No Is doing obedience work for us? Yes , but I would still call it a sport. Lets look at humans e.g. One high jumper may have to work harder than another to achieve the same result, but it is still a sport.

I consider it to be work to a degree because the dog must to what is expected of it, not what it may want to do, but I wouldn't call obedience work I would call it a sport. I would call herding work. Edit after reading entire thread.

ILK, using physical (lead) corrections to manage dog aggression is not a good idea. Firstly you are punishing the dog for being in an emotional state. When the dog is aggressing, barking etc, it is doing so for an emotional reason, ie it is fearful and it is displaying the only behaviour he knows will make the threat go away. Using corrections on a dog like this, is like me hitting someone over the head with a piece of 2 x 4 whenever they screamed at a spider or snake (or whatever they are fearful of). Yes lead corrections might make the dog stop the growling or lunging (if done hard enough) but we are not changing the emotional state of the dog. Therefore we infact have a ticking time bomb on our hands that can go off any time. This dog has not learned any coping strategies and has not learned any other conditioned responses to the triggers. The only thing we have done is punish him for giving us any warning signals to tell us he is not comfortable......WE NEED THOSE WARNING SIGNALS!! It is the only form of communication from the dog to us. This is why we see so many dogs that simply lunge and bite without ever giving a warning growl or some sort of signal beforehand...because we have punished them for doing so. Those dogs who end up romping around with other dogs after a couple of leash corrections never really had true dog aggression based on an emotional fear to start with. Their aggression may have been due to other reasons that did not have a deep rooted emotional base. Genetic based aggression is the worst to deal with as we can never "cure" it...only manage it and "mask" it the best we can. I can see what angle you are coming from here Kelpie-i and what you are saying does sound very logical and sensible. I can see after reading your post why some of those dogs I've seen have become so stressed.

My dog was originally trained a full check. Now I just use a soft half check (martingale) as the chain sound is all that is needed. My trainer taught me never to take my dog for a walk on the full check as he was to know when it was put on that it was time to work.