pip1981

YAY! Lappimum! What fantastic pics! Such a great representation of the day! I love the group zoomies, and the one of Boof and Dakota together, they look soooo soft and fluffy! (well, they are, hehe) Mine aren't great, not a fantastic camera, and I'm not artistic AT ALL, but her are some of the best ones..enjoy The darling Annie! (I spent most time with her when she was hiding under my chair in the pool area, from all the big bullies..and no, I'm definitely not referring to the rotties...LOL) Boof and Chloe Gorgeous Boy Finally tired enough for a 'together' shot, notice Bob trying to get in the photo..teehee Dakota zoomies Dakota pooped One very pooped Rotti, sorry can't remember which one..hehe Kiri wondering if that's what she's going to look like when she grows up...lol Chillin'

Lol, yeah, just slightly different....hehehe

Thanks Miss B, we still go 'Awwwwww' at that pic too! shoemonster: they are some beautiful pups, especially Ed at 3.5y.o, he is very impressive!

Thanks Janba, I suspected this could be the case, I'll just suggest she go and buy the right ones I guess, was just trying to save her the trip.

A friend just adopted a cute little doggy from a shelter, and I met him today, he's just lovely, but I had to inform her he had fleas I have a packet of Capstar from when we temporarily had a rescue dog with fleas, but they are for Large Dogs (containing approx 56mg of the active drug). The instructions say a small dog should have 1 small dog tablet (containing 11mg of active drug). Would it be unwise to give her little pooch approx. a fifth of a large tablet? Or should she consult a vet first? I left it up to her to decide, but on second thoughts decided to ask in here? Being a rescue, the shelter staff suggested she not bathe him for a while, let him settle in first of course, so what else can she do to immediately control the fleas? I would just hate for her house to become infested as ours did.

What a great thread! I love anyything 'that was this, this is now'! Everyone's pics are great. My turn... One of these babies is Dakota at 1 day old.. This is Dakota at 6 weeks This is at 8 w.o, first night home..yay And, most recently, at almost 18 months old..

so sorry rysup, she certainly was a beautiful girl, may she rest peacefully

Hey persephone, I thought she might miss him for a while too, but I think we did a good thing taking her with us when we returned Rusty, it's almost like she understood it as though he was 'just visiting', and she's reverted immediately back to her old self, playful and constantly interactive with us. Wheras I think if we had left her at home, she would have been looking for him when we returned, and been a bit confused pehaps? It's actually been much easier for her than I expected, I think she may have been slightly stressed (albeit excited) while he was here, and while I realise it was only early and that most probably would have changed anyway, she seemed to relax almost immediately, so it's good all round I guess. We definitely learned from this experience and I don't think we are strong enough to ever put ourselves, or more importantly, a dog, through that again. Thanks again everyone.

thanks corvus, we definitely feel now that we made the right decision...i just hope Rusty's happy too! i only wish the new owners happened to be DOLers who I could talk to hehe

hehe, that's funny, we were thinking we might try agility with Dakota once we have done some further obedience training (we've only been to puppy kinda and of course, home training so far)! oh, and Dakota's nickname is 'puppy' and I think she'll always be puppy to us!

that's excellent trish! do you mind if i ask how old she is? our female samoyed is 14 m.o, and naturally, has ALWAYS been a puller, unlike your poodle, we have tried many things suggested, but her stubborness remained, hehehe, until just this week, when it seems a light bulb when off in her head and she realised 'hmm, it really is a lot easier if i just do what they want', and we too, thought, maybe our baby is growing up! it's a very nice feeling, she's still a bit silly, but it's 90% easier than it was... hope things stay this way for you and your poodle!!

Just thought I should update everyone who has offered me advice on this thread. Unfortunately, we made the decision to return Rusty to the AAPS shelter today, it was one of the hardest things we've ever done, but we had been thinking about it all week, non-stop, and we stand by our decision. Basically, it was through no fault of his own that Rusty got returned, we simply decided that we preferred a single-dog household and missed how things were before. Of course we wish we didn't make this mistake at Rusty's expense. I'm happy to let you know though, that we have been informed that only 30 mins after we returned him, he was re-adopted by a lovely family, and they were appreciative of some positive notes I had left about Rusty. I know it's selfish, but even though we do still feel terribly guilty, it does make us feel better, that maybe his time here wasn't wasted if we helped persuade another family to take him. Hopefully it will be his 'forever home' and he will be a very happy boy. We will continue to follow his progress, and if he happens to be returned (of course we hope not), then we will do everything we can to help him find another home. He certainly is a lovely boy, that would make a very loyal companion. I hope you can all understand, and thanks again for your initial advice.

Thanks again Tamara, we are giving it some more time, and trying to relax and take things as they come I guess. ;) p.s ur inbox is full, so this is my reply, hehehe

corvus, i like your feeding method, i am letting dakota eat in the kitchen where she always has and i lay hers down first, rusty accepts that very well and doesn't bother her, i think he has learnt well, perhaps from other dogs at his previous home, heheh. i really understand your point of letting the insecure dog have another quiet place to eat, so rusty eats outside right at the living room door, where he can see us, and he seems very comfortable with that, it's nice and easy kelpiechick, thanks again for all of your help/advice/suggestions, i would join the kelpie discussion if i thought i had room for another forum, lol, we'll see it's very comforting to know I'm not the only one in the world that has ever felt this way about their dogs, thank-you, although it sounds like you had it rough with your first introduction, most people are probably wondering what the helll I've got to be worried about... and i am feeling very guilty at the moment for even considering not keeping Rusty, actually, i hate feeling this way, but others have reminded me that the shelter provides a 'change of heart' period for a reason and i wouldn't be the worst person in the world if i changed my mind, keeping him only because of 'guilt/shame' would not be a good idea for us or him in the long run. on the other hand i feel like we have made some progress tonight (except for some herding issues-i've mentioned this on the kelpie thread), and some fondness in certainly creeping in, so we'll see....

I just wanted to thank everyone else who has replied today, for their thoughts and advice, it seems a lot of people on here are much more experienced than I, and that's why I love to get your opinions, even though sometimes it's hard for me to get my head around... I agree that we have been overthinking a lot of the bahavioural things we have seen since bringing Rusty home, unfortunately that's something I tend to do a lot- think too much that is, and I'm not ready to tackle my personal 'demons' at this point in time, if ever, hehehe, too hard We haven't let Dakota 'save food for later' since the guarding happened, I guess that was common sense, but still hard for us to take as 'humans', as it feels we are taking something away from Dakota, I know, I know, she doesn't see it that way. And, Kelpiechick, you also mentioned not having most toys out, I completely understand the reasoning and that it has to be done in a multi-dog household, but once again, hard for us, because Dakota has always had access to them, feels like we're making too many changes, when everything was fine the way it was. We did teach Dakota as a pup that we can take toys/food/bones/treats/attention away from her whenever we please, and she learnt easily not to respond to that negatively. So far, Rusty has not been bothered at all if we remove food/toys from him either, we think he really does understand that we are his leaders, but at this stage in the game I suppose it could still be 'fear of the unknown', that makes him submit to us so easily. The guarding is definitely only between the dogs so far, I guess Dakota doesn't guard because she's never had to compete, well not since she was a pup, she actually goes to Rusty with her toys to play and isn't perturbed if he takes them, it's if she does try to take one back that he guards. Anyway, I'm repeating myself. I guess I'm only trying to say, we are taking a lot of people's advice into consideration, and doing our best as 'amateurs' at this. In all honesty, after reading what you and the experts have to say, both dogs seem much more well-adjusted than we are!!! But, as AM said 'they are dogs' and I think that is why they react to this one way, and we, another. With all the changes we have to make in our household due to this addition to the family, I think it's only human nature for us to wonder if it was the right thing to do in the first place, after-all Dakota has always seemed so well adjusted and still knows how to be a dog with dogs (to our minds, she was happy). Don't get me wrong, she also seems 'happy' and comfortable with Rusty here, but if we were all happy before, and now we're not 'all happy', we have kind of defeated one of the purposes of getting another dog, and that was to fulfill us? I know it must sound very selfish to be having these feelings, however we thought we wanted to provide a dog in need with a good home, but are we really a 'good home' if we aren't going to welcome him into our hearts. We have definitely welcomed him in the home, he slept on the bed for goodness sake, we are doing everything we can to make him feel at home, because we know it's not fair and he's done nothing wrong, but we haven't truly 'let him in yet', and at this point it feels like we may never and I know that would be cruel! Let me state, this is not by any means a final word on the situation, just my thoughts 'today', and of course, these may change in time. I'll keep everyone posted on our progress. Please feel free to add your thoughts after 'today's ramblings', even if they aren't what I want to hear.....

Hi AM, Thanks for your response also, just saw it after my last post, sorry. You have definitely made me feel better, especially knowing you understand Dakota's nature as a northern breed, and yep, we know she's a working breed too, i guess i just meant we didn't imagine a bigger dog at all, unless it was another Sam, and we have already considered agility for Dakota, so this is definitely something we could do with both of them some day...never thought of the herding for Dakota, but will consider it, thanks.. I like the way you treat your dogs and your rules, now I just have to learn to be tougher I guess, I wouldn't say Dakota previously had run of the house or anything, she definitely knows her place with us, but the rules have been easy to maintain with one dog, I never really thought about that side of having 2 dogs, gonna be hard work, but thanks heaps Cosmolo, I thought I recognized the name 'Underdog training', just looked again at the flyer from the shelter, unfortunately we live an hour away, so it's not really convenient for us to train with you guys, we might have to find somewhere closer to home...thanks for mentioning it anyway

Hi Cosmolo, Thanks very much for your detailed reply, it is very much appreciated, as we are feeling a little helpless here at the moment. Your clear responses to my points do make a lot of sense, and we will try over the next weeks to put your suggestions into action, unfortunately we both work full-time and will therefore not get to see a lot of the interaction between them during the day. We know this situation is not ideal, that is why my fiance deliberately took today off and I ended up coming home early. I do, however feel confident that their interactions would not develop into anything dangerous. At this point, we both admit that the dogs are more comfortable with everything than we are, it's quite a strange feeling. And, yes, Rusty is the red Kelpie from AAPS, we all met him on Saturday and had a long 'meet-and-greet', went home to think/talk it over, and went back for him yesterday morning. Anita, just saw your reply too, thank you also for the point by point detailed responses, all very helpful, but it does get difficult when you get so much different advice, do we just choose a person to listen to and stick with it, or take what sounds the best answer to us on the different points and make up our own mind? sorry, it's just so confusing, and believe me, i know i'm reading too much into it and getting too emotional, it's a problem i have, and i haven't been 'trained' out of it...lol once again, i do really appreciate the advice, maybe we will ask a trainer (from when Dakota attended puppy kinda) to come by for a visit for peace of mind

Hi There, just wanted some advice regarding our speyed 14 m.o female Samoyed, Dakota, and a 3 y.o desexed male rescue Kelpie (X) we only brought home yesterday afternoon. For some background- we have always held the position of pack leaders or dominance over Dakota with no problems whatsoever, she seems to complete understand how it works in our house, although I think the Samoyed in her may occasionally test us in terms of stubborness, which, I've been told is normal. In our previous experience with her meeting other dogs for 'playdates', she is very well socialised and knows how to read other dogs of all ages, but being young and excitable and possibly not the perfectly trained dog, does occasionally annoy 'not-so-playful' dogs. Even still, she is easily put in her place by them, for eg. her mum who we have visited says hello, but won't tolerate her playing, so she snarls, and that's the end of that. But, in most of her meetings with male dogs, she has seemed the dominant one to us (and we are told by Samoyed breeders, that the girls are the bosses?), for eg. if they have tried to display dominant behaviour like mounting, she hasn't ever submitted to them, but in saying that, looking back, there was one dog who she resorted to hiding from because he simply overpowered her in weight and strength, and in all honestly was a bit dopey. Anyway, we perhaps wrongly went on the search for a more 'submissive' dog to be her companion and thought maybe a smaller breed or mixed breed might be suitable. We trawled shelters and shelter/rescue websites for months, and then started taking her with us to shelters for 'meet-and-greets' a couple of weeks ago. Many of the boys were 'entire' and even though Dakota is 'fixed', they attempted to mount her, often seen as an obvious sign of dominance, so we steered away from them, we never got around to testing her with any female candidates as breeders had told us they would always fight. We just wanted to see a playful and loving connection, and then a shelter attendant brought out 'Rusty', professing she knew we weren't after something like a Kelpy, but she just wanted to test them because he was shy and submissive. He approached with tail between legs and head down, then proceeded to very slowly and intently bow to Dakota. We had only ever seen a fast kind of play-bow, we weren't familiar with this behaviour, the attendant explained that is was 'the greatest sign of respect amongst dogs', then they continued to sniff each other's rears, etc, he kept bowing and lowering himself to her and 'kissing' her, of course, we thought it was all very sweet, and the attendant said she loved the dynamics between them, thought they'd be a great match, etc, etc, there were occasions when he did put his head over her back and begi to mount, the attendant said this was just him letting her know he was a boy, not dominance (seemed a little unusual to us, but she was the expert, not us)??? so we went away thinking about it. We never intended on getting a 'working breed' dog, or a dog as large as a Kelpy (he's a little bit taller than Dakota and only about 3.5kgs heavier), but we talked about it with each other and some dog-experienced aquaintances, and decided, breed and size didn't really matter, only that they got along, and we committed ourselves to the exercise/mental stimulation a Kelpy needs, etc. We only picked him up yesterday afternoon, we had Dakota with us. He jumped right in the back of our wagon, no probs, we secured them, then began the hour drive home, we were entertained on the way home, with his amazing focus on the cars zooming by, definitely nothing we are familiar with, lol, I can really imagine him atop sheep, but anyway, Dakota just lays there all relaxed like he's not even there, and he pretty much stands the entire trip. Overall he seems to have settled in well to our household, just us and the dogs, seems used to living inside, does exactly what he is told with not much hesitation, but the following are some things of concern we have noticed so far... (early days I know, but I want to know all there is to know) 1. Once we were home he could not keep his focus off me, always by me, following me unless I command him to stay (I know we're lucky to have a rescue that already knows how to stay, hehe), possibly indicates he was mostly around females? 2. We fed Dakota out of her own bowl as normal and put his food in another container, he began to scoff his down, Dakota is not food oriented at all and never scoffs, she stopped eating, went to check him out, he growled and bared teeth at her, she backed off, but we told him 'no', obviously he has had to compete for food in his lifetime or has never been taught otherwise, we figured this was normal, but also slightly dominant behaviour? 3. From when we first got home yesterday afternoon until this evening, whenever we try to show affection to Dakota (especially me), he tries to get between us as though he is 'claiming/guarding' me, at first we were saying 'no', but have since been told even this is 'attention', so now we are ignoring and continuing to show Dakota affection, then showing him affection separately or at other times, we feel this is obvious dominant behaviour? 4. We did walk them together, one dog each at first, fiance and Dakota in front, me and Rusty behind. I had trouble keeping him at heel with them in front. Fiance passed Dakota's lead to me, they walked either side of me, but he kept edging slightly ahead of Dakota, hmmm? 5. Last night Dakota left some food in her bowl for later as she always does, and later in the evening we caught Rusty guarding it from her, snarling and growling, he was told 'no' and fiance 'gave it back to Dakota' 6. Today there have been a few occasions where he has got hold of a toy she was playing with (admittedly she goes to him with it to play), then he faces the other way with it and guards it from her, snarling and growling, which scares us a little, as we want her to be able to play with the toys like she always has I guess, he has no problems with us taking the toys or food back from him, so he understands we are the 'pack leader/s', but seems to see her at the bottom of the 'heirarchy'? 7. Fiance went out for a short time earlier, and Rusty didn't really greet him at the door as you would expect, he was stand-offish, we were slightly worried maybe he was guarding me against fiance, so we tested by hugging, etc, no response, so that's ok, but he is definitely guarding me from Dakota a lot. 8. In play, Rusty appears very submissive in that he's laying down a lot, and goes to the ground the minute Dakota yelps, but it also seems he's spending the whole time testing to see if she'll let him dominate her/mount her, I'm guessing this is normal, but if he does begin to mount her (by this I mean basically biting on to the rough of her neck at the top and putting at least one paw over her, not actually mounting, they are both desexed), do we let him dominate if she does, or do we intervene?? OK, I know it's long, I apologise, I just want to provide a lot of detail as clear as I can, is it too early to tell if he is trying to dominate over Dakota, or is this just the 'beginning'. And, what can anyone tell me about the pack idea in terms of any 'pecking order', we've had our trainer from puppy kinda tell us we are the leaders, then there is a pecking order amongst dogs, then we have also heard others (primarily Cesar Milan) say, if you are the leader, there should be no dominance amongst the dogs, they should all be equal in most circumstances. There is another point we are afraid of, can't remember where we saw/heard this one, but if we defend the submissive dog in any way from the dominant dog, we are only creating further tension and the submissive dog will get picked on even worse?!? I stress, we are not giving up as we know/have been told it takes time for a dog to settle in a new home, we also know that a dog being submissive is not a bad thing, it can still be 'happy/comfortable', but we are concerned that if Dakota does become the submissive dog, a lot of what we know as her personality may fade away? Ultimately we want what is best for both dogs, which we thought was good company, but we kind of forgot that our relationship with her might change dramatically, which is a bit scary/sad for us to contemplate. So, any thoughts please? Also, feel free to tell me I'm thinking too much, or just that I'm a total moron?!?!

Thanks wolfgirl! I found that thread the other day, I couldn't make it to today's meet, but I aim to make it one soon! Sounds like fun..do you ever go?

Hi JulesP, we were at Kepala K9 Country Club at Diggers Rest, just north-west of Melbourne, it's only $5 a dog for as long as you like, and you have acces to that agility area, a long sand run and a couple of grass runs. There is also an indoor swimming pool and an outdoor swimming lagoon at an extra cost, and it's all adjacent to a boarding kennel. Great place, so glad we were told about it.

oh, and yes, she was definitely enjoying herself!

Hi luvsdogs...she's only 13 months old. Has only ever had basic puppy training, plus little stuff we've done at home, very intelligent pup, but also stubborn, pretty bad recall apart from around the home. We're thinking of doing some further obedience training with her, and after we saw what she was like with the equipment, we thought maybe it was something she could actually do?

Hi Guys, never posted in this section before and never thought I'd have a need to, but the following pics were taken about 5 mins after our girl, Dakota, saw agility equipment for the first time ever, is it unusual for a dog to take to this kind of thing so quickly? We didn't get a pic, but she also ran through a long tube first go also...we were amazed! p.s Don't tell my fiance I'v posted pics of him on the net Thanks for looking.. Carissa

So sorry to read about Odin, sounds like he was a great friend

So sorry Mellyo, how heartbreaking to lose all at once, I'm so glad you have all these fond memories of them all, they sounded like very sweet friends! I guess one consolation is that none of the dogs had to go through losing each other, I've heard pets can grieve terribly for their companions, including other pets of course. Sorry again