pip1981

Hello clever people! Would anyone be so kind as to add Tika to my signature, or create a new one, whichever is easier. I would love something with at least one pic each of both dogs on their own, and the pic of them together, with their names included pretty please. This is Tika This is a pic of Tika with Dakota If original pics of Dakota are required, please let me know. Thank you so much in advance OT- misha&milo- Flash is sooo cute, can't wait to meet him on Sunday, and see you guys there again...great stuff!

Just updating list to remove dobesrock (sorry ) List of DOLers and Doggies pip1981- Dakota and Tika MavericksMission ~ Maverick & Hector Pointees - April, Alexis and Shaun. Lucycharzie - Charlotte Evolving - Alera and Bobby Kirst_goldens and John - Decided ill bring Lunaberger again and try again to bring Mo Mo the greyhound next month Misha&Milo-Misha, Milo and Flash ( no one has met flash yet) spitzbaby - Kairu + 1 named lucky Groupfive - Flash Hannah - Beethoven the labby boy Canine Friend - Dexter Sharon - Sax Keroppiyo - Buffy Snout Girl- Bert and Sally (and OH) TooFarNorth - Billy List of DOLers and food pip1981- marinated chicken wings, toss salad, soft drink (cups, plates, cutlery & condiments) MavericksMission ~ Potato Salad and something else Pointees - fairy bread and pigs ears. Lucycharzie - a couple salads Evolving - Sausages. Kirst - Drinks and a cake... im thinking cheesecake... hrmm Misha&Milo- snags, tomato suace, rissoles and whatever else i think of spitzbaby & 3 friends - homemade brownies (I think for now) Groupfive - Pasta Salad and COKE!!!!!! Hannah - Chippies Canine Friend - hamburgers and bread Sharon D - Tai chicken burgers Keroppiyo - Fruit salad Snout Girl- something vegetarian- vegie burgers and a salad? TooFarNorth - Bread rolls and vegie skewers That gives us 24 doggies so far.....could be a record! Hopefully the weather is just as nice as last weekend. So...who wants to help me cook this month?

I'm sorry you can't come, and I wish you guys all the best for Darwin! Hopefully one day he'll be posted back down south, and we'll meet again. I'm definitely up for that! Hehehe Hi Anna, looking forward to meeting you and Billy! Hey spitzbaby, looking forward to seeing you and Kairu again, and to meeting your friends and Lucky. Hi Sharon, looking forward to seeing you and Saxon again, it's been a while. And, yes, hopefully Roadie can join us another time, naughty King pin!

Love this thread, lots of gorgeous happy family snaps! Thought I would add a pic of my pack from this past weekend! Dakota, on the left, is our baby, we brought her home at 8 w.o, and she will be 3 this month. I couldn't imagine life without her. Tika, on the right, is a new addition to our family (first foster, and a failure...lol), she is 6 y.o, a big fluffy sweetheart, fits in perfectly and we love her dearly.

20 Dogs!!! ;) :D ;) Kepala, here we come!!!

Bindii- I'm sad too but happy you can come in November!!! Yay! spitzbaby- Good luck with your driving test! We would love to see you and steal gorgeous little Kairu!! Snout girl- Hopefully you can make it, it would be great to meet you and your guys at Kepala, rather than in a hotel lift...lol

hehehe Hope you can make it, it's never quite the same without you and your lot, but I understand, not everyone likes to spend ALL day revolving around dogs like we all do...LOL. Have fun with your sister visiting regardless!!

Hey Guys, It's less than 2 weeks until our next planned meet at Kepala!! We're looking forward to it already...who else is in?? Copy and Paste the list below... For those who haven't yet been to a meet, please visit the below link for more info, and feel free to ask any questions you may have in here... http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=98062 Cheers. List of DOLers and Dogs pip1981- Dakota and Tika List of DOLers and food pip1981- marinated chicken wings, toss salad, soft drink (cups, plates, cutlery & condiments)

Hi JB! Just noticed this update, and wanted to say good on you and your whole family for doing such a great job with Ben! It really does sound like he's doing really well. I'm glad you've got his diet sorted, it is a shame that you were misinformed, but with the exercise you're giving him and the smaller diet, I'm sure he'll be back in peak condition in no time. I have no advice on the nipping, maybe he needs another dog to tell him off for it...lol. Seriously though, I would speak to your trainer first, then if they are no help, maybe ask some trainers on here? Hopefully, we'll see you all at another Kepala meet one day soon! Cheers ;)

Just updating... The licking did continue, so on Thursday, at the Royal Melbourne Show, I purchased a product called 'Bitter Taste Fast Acting ChewStop Spray' by 'Bio-Groom'. I sprayed it on all of the affected areas yesterday, and there has been noticeable improvement already! I tasted it myself, and oh my dog, it would certainly stop me from licking!! Ewwwww.

Ah-ha! I've done some investigative work (thanks FB...lol), and discovered the purpose of April's vet visit, you scared me there for a second, thought there had been an emergency, but it's all good...!!

Hey, I think I missed something...why was April at the vets?? ;) Poor girl...I hope she's better soon whatever the cause... (impatiently goes off to search for the answer) On a happier note, we're only 2 weeks and 1 day from our next meet!!!

Run free Crystal... beautifully written RuralPug, I'm very sorry for your loss

I'm so sorry

I thought it was an excellent segment. I agree with the above and others, I don't care whose idea it was, or which 'celebrity' presented it, as long as the message gets out there!!

Beautiful puppy! And how special to have Darcy's one and only stay with you! All the best with her

That's great Fran! Thanks for sharing! (And who doesn't like a goat thrown in for good measure?...hehehe) I love the treadmill clip!

Ok no takers so far, so I will wade in with some first hand observations of these dogs ..... They miss out on getting their claws painted with nail polish. They miss out on wearing doggy pyjamas and other outfits modelled on humans clothing. They miss out on diamante collars. They miss out on fashion leads (although some of their show leads are very nice) They miss out on sleeping in plastic four poster beds. They miss out on having a fashion plate on the other end of the lead. They miss out on having their own unique food bowl and have to suffer the indignity of having their s/s bowl taken away from them soon after eating, so it can be properly cleaned and ready for the next meal. They miss out on being called 15 different cutesy-wutesy names that the owner changes in line with owners whims. Some miss out on going to shows if they are not good enough; but that is no biggy for them anyway. They dont miss out on being re-homed if that is appropriate, if the owner is the right candidate and can supply all that is given in this establishment and has a good track record. They dont miss out on play, walks, swims, and great camaraderie with both humans and dogs. They dont miss out on vaccinations and mainstream medication and veterinary treatment. They dont miss out on massage and physiotherapy and herbal goodies and alternative therapies when needed. They dont miss out on human interaction and learning discipline both from the pack leader (the human) and from the other dogs (as youngsters). These are much loved and confident and valuable dogs, for many reasons. But it is not the love that is lavished on many pet dogs today - a love that is almost smothering in some cases and is often stemming from the owners need to give love to something or someone, not necessarily the other way round. This is a love that is combined with respect, both for the individual dog and for the breed and for the function of the breed ..... and all else that is this breed. It is the healthy love and respect of a dog as a wonderful animal - a love that many dogs in pet homes today are missing out on. Souff Crisovar directed this question to me, and I answered as best I could, he/she responded again, then upon reflection, I agreed with Crisovar in that in this particular establishment, the dogs may not be missing out on anything! I don't think anyone would think a dog that didn't get your first list of 'stuff' was missing out on anything important, and for the record my dogs don't get them either (well, except maybe the names ). I agree that some dogs in pet homes' needs aren't met, but that's not the discussion here, that's just you trying to make pet owners feel inferior to breeders. You probably took pleasure in writing that 'cheeky' list. short-step- I was trying to 'get it', that's why I'm still here, but I give up, I'll leave it all to you breeders, because there's no way a pet-owner could even come close to knowing what is best for a dog. I never tried to insinuate that I 'knew best', in fact I mentioned quite a few times, that my knowledge was limited. I was trying to learn. Now I think I've learned why I usually stay away from controversy.

being spot on for a family or individual buying one pup/dog as a pet. Of course the animal is not going to do well on it's own isolated. A dog alone on its own away from other dogs and humans is not what we want. Dogs living in a breeders or exhibitors establishment where the number of dogs and or sexes means that for some of the time at least they need to be kennelled etc are not alone, they have the rest of the dog pack to interact with. I don't see this as unacceptable and that the dogs are missing out on anything, they have their dog family around as well as the times they spend with their humans. So I don't see this as contradictory. Does this change anything for you? Thanks Crisovar, this does change things for me, somewhat. I am now thinking of my 2 dogs while we are at work. I'm only comfortable with this situation, as I think their lives are 'fulfilled' for want of a better word, when we are home, and they don't display behaviours which would indicate otherwise. So, yes this could be achieved in the kennel situation described, but I still don't think it would be as easily maintained as in a home situation, and therefore, would probably not be an overly common situation in a large kennel. Which, once again, is why I think breeding operations need to be judged individually. And, just out of curiosity, in a large kennel such as the one mentioned, when you say they have each other to interact with, do you mean they are in the same pens, more than one dog? I've never visited a registered 'kennel', but have had a few described to me, that always sounded more like boarding kennels to me, one dog per pen, with basic needs met, but no 'playthings' to keep minds stimulated, etc. I think the DOCS comparison is a tad ridiculous, unless you're breeding and selling children.

I'm trying to keep away from this discussion, I really don't think I'm qualified to answer, and I don't know if the breed or breeds in question have special requirements either, but I'll try and answer your question because I think it's rude not to. I wasn't only referring to the pups, I'm sure in that particular establishment, with a whole family and staff involved, the cute little puppies get all the attention they need. What I was trying to say, in relation to MY chosen breed, is that I would want to see the adults on the premises living as the breeder intended me to house the pup when I took it home. Otherwise it would be a little contradictory, eg. Breeder says "Sammies really do much better when living as part of the family, and allowed inside or where the family spends the most time, but my adults live in pens and only take turns being part of the family". However, as I said I'm talking about MY chosen breed, because I feel it is all I am possibly qualified to do. In addition, I'm not picking on this establishment, how could I really form an opinion on it, without spending some time there myself, which is what I think authorities should be allowed to do. And, they would probably find all was well. On a lighter note, if you think I'm wrong, you could just picture me falling down the stairs, like a slinky

A ratio system sounds reasonable to me as well, and in the example you provided, it clearly works. Not that I think that scenario would be common. However, I believe if it is as you say, they would easily pass any inspection. I should add, I'm very new to all of this, having only brought home my first dog (of my own) 3 years ago, and having gained most of my knowledge via Samoyed breeders, DOL and other online sources, so I don't presume to know much at all about breeding, hence all the questions (which are genuine I might add). What I do know, about MY breed of choice, is that anything you read about them as pets (or what breeders tell puppy buyers) says they do BEST with their family, in their home. Therefore, I wouldn't source 'Samoyed' pups from an establishment such as the one you described, because I would prefer to encourage those who treat their dogs as they wish their puppies to be treated in their new homes. Like, I said, I'm limited to one breed, but should we have different rules for different breeds? I really don't know. I think I've learned that my knowledge is too limited to further discuss this, I think I'll just watch and learn. I will, however, continue to fight 'puppy farmers' as I view them, and support 'ethical' registered breeders, as I view them.

Souff, that is why I mentioned in another post, that any definition of puppy farm would be difficult to create due to differing individual circumstances. I totally agree that 'quantity' cannot be the ONLY factor considered, but realistically there has to be an 'upper' limit doesn't there?? Even the most experienced breeder with unlimited funds, unlimited time and good management skills couldn't possibly provide 50 dogs on their own property with the required exercise, mental stimulation and affection they need on top of basic environmental needs. But, then I guess it comes down to what people believe a dog needs, I personally believe they all deserve to feel belonging and certainty. And, I still want to know what 'larger numbers of dogs' are...whether or not it is the 'focus', I think it is an important factor. Also, I too, like the idea of a 'fair go', but all too often this is taken advantage of. I'd rather focus on giving the dogs a fair go at a better life.

oakway- I would be interested to know your definition of 'large kennel', because I do think only very special people could give 'many dogs' everything they need, but I also agree that some pet owners would have extremely unrealistic requirements. Basically though, I agree with your points above, and that is exactly why I think ALL breeders, from the small scale family breeder, right through to large commercial operations, should be under the same scrutiny in terms of inspections. Some unethical small scale breeders would be wiped out, and ALL large scale commercial operations (or farms) would be GONE, because they cannot be realistically managed in an ethical manner!

No one here attended the rally to deprive ethical breeders from continuing their worthy breeding programs, for dog's sake, that's where my own dogs come from!! Unfortunately, yes I'm sure some people in attendance yesterday are extreme liberationists and disagree with all animal captivity, but that was NOT the aim of the rally, nor is it the aim of 'Oscar's Law'. I, for one, think that general good health, shelter, food, etc., of pets (including breeding animals) is a given, and yes, the current laws should be enforced to make everyone comply with these aspects. But, these alone, would not shut down all large scale breeding operations, and as far as I can tell, some registered breeders run large scale operations that I would consider to be puppy farms. I think 'puppy farming' mainly relates to the size of the operation (how many dogs) and the profits involved. However, a formal definition would be very hard to create, as it also relates to individual situations, as another poster touched on. For eg. If the breeder or someone on their behalf (family, etc.) is at home 24/7, then the amount of dogs who would realistically get everything they need (exercise, socialisation, affection, etc.) might be higher. However, I'm sure some breeders work full-time, have other hobbies, manage families, etc., and there would be a lower number of dogs they could 'care for'. For this reason, I think even registered breeders should be open to inspections for an 'individual assessment' of some kind, and an inspection wouldn't make them 'look bad', as everyone would be under the same microscope (similar to being randomly audited for tax purposes, it doesn't mean you've done something wrong). As for stopping puppies being sold in pet shops, I don't think you'd find anyone on this whole forum who would disagree.

I'm still a little confused to be honest, but can I just say, that I'm sure, if any future proposed legislation threatened to adversely affect what I thought to be ethical, registered 'in the home' breeders of pure breed dogs, I would attend a rally against specific laws for that too! I'm sure most DOLers who attended yesterday would, being that most of us have happily sourced dogs this way. I don't frown upon anyone who didn't attend, I'm just genuinely trying to understand how this will affect small-scale 'in the home' operations, I still don't get it....maybe I'm a bit slow... As for those wanting to simply make sure that the current legislation is properly administered and not changed. This means puppy farming operations will still exist!! Even if facilities are clean, the 'right' size, within certain numbers, etc., do you really think any dog deserves this life, mostly spent in a pen, with no socialisation or family?? But, you and your dogs and breeding program will be safe...is that all the matters?