OzzieLioness

And when the colour has genetic health issues linked to it, what then? How do you feel about folk who'd do an Overo to Overo mating to breed paint horses? If you've never heard of dilute colour alopecia, now would be a good time to look it up before you dig yourself in any deeper. What I said was - and you must have missed it - "I bet they also look out for bad genetic traits and do their level best to exclude those too...." I am not here to argue or seek out negativity. Argue on with others - and this will delight you! I am obviously wrong - all people who breed for colour are obviously going to DELIBERATELY ensure that they throw colour dilution alopecia into the mix and our furry friends will be scratching and going bald and crazy - and I do not want it to be me that has caused this by my ignorant assertion that breeding for a specific colour does not necessarily equate to being unethical. You have a wonderful day!

I don't think they are puppy farmers, I think they are unethical ANKC breeders who do not breed for the betterment of the breed they breed purely for colour as their priority, which makes them unethical. I disagree - quite vehemently too! I do NOT see that people who are breeding for a specific colour are necessarily unethical. You are making wayyyy too many assumptions there. So they aim for a particular colour? SO WHAT? I bet they also look out for bad genetic traits and do their level best to exclude those too - and you can't say they don't - you do not know. Don't ever put your hand up for Jury service!!

Very sad - especially for the dog - 5 months is a HUGE chunk out of a dogs life!

Hmm ... I totally get that you'd want to take whatever reasonable steps to help your animal - but, I truly have to wonder when that crosses the line and becomes selfish and self serving at best. When do you let go?

I am puzzled about how you ascertain that people who breed for colour are puppy farmers?? I fail to see what is wrong with that - as LONG as the rest is good ... it's the same as ... hmmm, breeding a palamino. You stay within your breeding plan and aim for good to great conformation, BUT, you KNOW that the colour you'll be getting is golden. Aren't people who breed dogs allowed to do that?? I need to point out that right at this point in time, I do NOT share my life with a dog, a puppy, a cat or even a goldfish!

We use Bonnie for my Mum's White Shepherd and my sons ACD X Kelpie (their dinner). The bikkies are never given dry - they get a lovely beef gravy (I make it up) and some raw mince, usually a kanga/beef mix, mixed through the bikkies with it. They're so healthy, it's ridiculous :)

My daughters dog, which is a Scotty, absolutely flips out when any animals appear on telly. They have to leave the old table that the television sits on, because the dog chews and scratches it ... wanting to kill the animals she sees! :laugh: AND, she knows a heap of intro's to ad's and tv shows that she hates - you'll hear her feet going 19 to the dozen trying to get to the tv fast!

That just makes me so sad, that people are capable of that sort of monstrous behaviour. I guess thinking they should treat them better to "protect their investment" is just naivety on my part. Whilst probably not enough, between the two people fined, they'll be forking out $35,000. I don't know their financials, but at their ages, that's a good fine - imho. The "compensation" .... does anyone know where that goes? To the RSPCA? I hope so, anyhow!

Good Lord, 246 dogs!! No wonder they had to set up a temporary triage and care area - who would be equipped to suddenly take THAT many dogs!! I don't understand why people who are supposedly making money off their dogs don't treat their "bread winners" in a humane and better way - if they did, surely it stands to reason that they would make more money, not less, if this were their only motivation? A sick dog ain't gonna breed - and if they do, their puppies tend to die. Now, having said that, I have to state categorically that I HATE PUPPY FARMS - and I would never ever knowingly buy a dog from one or support them in any way, shape or form. To the best of my knowledge, most breeders will only breed to improve their breeds, and they don't make money. If they are lucky, they recover costs. I am glad to see that cruelty to any animal is making it to the penalty stage in court! I once begged RSPCA peeps to come for some starving horses that I saw - but they were not down on the ground, so they were unable to do a thing.

I am not a kid person as a rule either. But then, I am not a people person either! Give me a dog, a horse or even a cat any day!! If I travel again on a plane, especially if it is of any distance (15 hrs to the US) - then I WILL ask to be nowhere near a child. When a baby is crying, I truly cannot handle the noise - and in a plane, you cannot escape it, without LOUD music from your iPod!! When I went over to the States, I had a little darling in front of me, putting the seat up and down - friggin constantly! After half an hour of that, I tapped the mother on the shoulder and said 'PLEASE control your child' - well, she took exception to what I thought was a VERY reasonable request and abused ME. I had a chat with one of the flight attendants - and got bumped to first class! Gotta love that!

Hmmm - if you keep going to a doctor to have your appendix removed, may I suggest that perhaps you need a new doctor! ;)

I hate hearing that any creature has been mauled by a dog or dogs. At the end of the day, the dogs that attacked may be well bred, but you can bet your bottom dollar that ANY territorial but usually happy dog who is suddenly confronted with some stranger and his dog bursting into his home, is likely to react poorly, regardless! I find it ridiculously emotive to look at it from the point that poor Bosun, the beautiful GSD who has tracked and found a vicious policeman killer was basically set upon unfairly. If anything, where the hell was his handler and why didn't HE react faster? My point in saying that is that it's very easy to point the finger, hey?! Don't get me wrong, I really feel sorry that the dog has been harmed, but I also hope that the dogs that did it are assessed FAIRLY - and not emotively. AND, does anyone actually KNOW, or is it just speculation that these dogs were poorly bred?

I really will be interested to see what Dr. Harry has to say about long term use of benzo's and anti-depressents in dogs to treat seperation anxiety. Personally, I can't see any problem with SHORT term use of a calmative like Valium, in conjunction with intensive, appropriate training for whatever the problem is. Then wean the animal off Valium. The following is an excerpt from a webpage article written by Dr. Barbara Forney, who is a veterinary practitioner in Chester County in Pennsylvania, U.S.A. She has a Master's degree in animal science from the University of Delaware and graduated from the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine in 1982. She began to develop her interest in client education and medical writing 1997. Recent publications include portions of The Pill Book Guide to Medication for Your Dog and Cat, and most recently Understanding Equine Medications published by the Bloodhorse. Dr. Forney is an FEI veterinarian and an active member of the AAEP, AVMA, and AMWA http://www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/learning-center/professional-monographs/diazepam-for-veterinary-use.html Diazepam Side Effects •Common: weakness, drowsiness and loss of coordination. •Rare: paradoxical excitement, aggression or unusual behavior. Liver failure is a rare but serious side effect that can occur in cats after receiving oral diazepam for several days. Affected cats do not have a prior history of liver disease or elevated enzymes. The cause of this hepatic toxicity is not known at this time.

jrm88 ... I totally get your analogy with regard to medication for humans with mental health issues, or diabetes etc etc. And agree with you - there would be problems where a dog needs meds for the rest of their life - indeed, my son's elderly dog is on phenobarbitol because she developed epilepsy last year. I strongly question the use of benzodiazapams, long term, is all. In people, paradoxically, long term Valium use can cause: * Anxiety * Hyperexcitability * Increased muscle spasticity * Insomnia * Anger Now, I understand that people are not dogs ... BUT .... I still would question and be very concerned for the dogs, with the use of it, given the symptoms that long term use has proven to cause in humans.

How bizarre!! I'd have to wonder if the benzo's go the same way in animals as they do in people - after the 'therapeutic' result where a benzo calms a person, in the long term it works the OTHER way - it makes people aggressive, anxious etc. I am gob smacked that you'd put an animal on it and keep them on it - I used to use a sedative in my horses when I had them ... absolutely ONLY a 3 day thing ... if, for example, thy were scared of traffic, because I am 5ft nothing, handling a 17 - 18 HH TB that is freaking out can be tricky. So, 3 days of calming medicine and intensive behavioural treatment. Problem fixed, medication stopped. I don't know how you'd solve seperation anxiety in a dog, BUT I bet someone like Dr. Harry would know! And I bet it would not involve Valium!! He'll be at Pets Galore in Toowoomba this weekend - I am going, so if I get a chane, I'll ask him! :D

Many years ago, my ex's pedigree bully ( she was pure white) was stolen. She WAS as gentle as a lamb .... played with our kids, no problem at all. And then she was missing for 12 weeks. She had this funky kink in her tail from an accident. Our mailman spotted her and let us know. She had been blooded, for fighting and certifiably insane when we got her back. I could NOT trust her around the kids at all and we had to do the kindest thing for all of us. I HATE DOG THIEVES and I hope this mongrel is caught ... by the owners. The law is a joke and there is no justice.

Ohhh no. How very, very sad and heartbreaking. Words just seem to be totally inadequate R.I.P Odin. Run free ... and chase butterflies with my Mawson

Ohhh now THAT'S something I forgot to put ... I'd have at least 10 dogs too!

I've got to go and pick a new boss up tomorrow ... it's a white shepherd and for my Mum (well, that's a technicality :rolleyes: ) ... but, what I have fed dogs on before is exactly what I would still use, even if money were no object. The idea of a really cute kitchenhand is not a bad one, I gotta say! He'd probably have to look and sing like Mark Spano of Australian Idol fame ... just be taller though ;)

Yes, it does sound so similar R.I.P Oakley

What a beautiful thing you did for this angel. I am sorry for your loss. I guess time is the thing ... with time, it gets easier? I hope so! RIP Spice ...

Thank you all for your lovely thoughts. It has truly touched me ... and to get such lovely PM's from "total strangers" who understand is just amazing!

A little over two years ago, full of excitement and anticipation, I jumped on a plane to go and pick up "my lad". (I lived in a very isolated part of the country at the time) He was a Saint Bernard and one of the most loving and beautifully natured dogs I have ever owned. I did not know a whole lot about Saints, but before I made my decision on what breed I wanted, I did my "homework". I discussed diet, protein levels at different stages of his growth and innoculation schedules given my isolation with my Vet. I knew that hip and elbow scores were extremely important in these gentle giants. When I was discussing the hip & elbow scores with the breeder on the phone both before I got there and at the time, she told me that her dogs had certainly been scored. On arrival there, I asked to see them and she said that the paperwork was yet to come back, but they were all good. Now, I'd just travelled 1,500km so what was I to do? Her breeder "blurb" said that she bred for soundness and all dogs were hip and elbow scored. She SEEMED honest enough .... and going away empty handed just was not very practical with the travelling I had to do. I did not want him put on planes to be sent to me on his own either. Personal reasons figured into it as well ... just went through a very bad divorce, I wanted a doggie companion so desperately .... ohhhhhh, if I KNEW then what I know NOW, I would have RUN! I feel SO STUPID! Mawson provided me with two years of absolute delight. His "little" drooling problem never bothered me. The literal snowstorm of hair when he moulted just meant I had to carry a clothes brush sometimes. The love he gave me more than made up for any small problems. One day, almost five months ago, he was suddenly, painfully lame. I thought he must have been overzealous at play with my sons little dog and strained himself. Three days later, the lameness was chronic so I took him to my Vets. The news I got was that he had the WORST case of hip dysplasia he had ever seen. Mawsons xrays showed he had NO hip joints AT ALL. From then on, he just got worse on a daily basis. He went from a loping, playful dog to one whose back legs were noticably wasted, could barely walk and was in obvious pain. Pills that the Vet gave me for him worked a little to make him more comfortable. I knew I was being selfish in wanting to hold on to him. I contacted the breeder and she emailed me ... this is what she said regarding hip and elbow scores ... They do not usually x-ray in the States or Canada so I have no history of family background on the sires side. The dam I bred and she is fifth generation and all have had very good hips and elbows. She has good hips but I would need to get a better x-ray to get her scored and I am not prepared to put her under for that. The Vet that took them went over the x-rays with me and said that her hips were very good. Hipscores are only a number and mean nothing. (His sire was an imported dog) I had called her on the phone first, prior to email, to tell her about this and in discussion, she did ask me if Mawson was still an entire male (he was). In her email, she also said this... As far as Mawson is concerned, I will take him back, have my vet x-ray him and if he is as bad as you have stated I will put him down How does THAT work? You get a "faulty" one and because he didn't shoot blanks, she'd take him back and give you a new one ?!? (or so it seems to me). Interestingly, she refused to put HER dog through x-rays to get better ones for hip scoring, but was happy to put MINE through it AGAIN! Mawson went peacefully to doggie Heaven two days ago. I am sure he is pain free, chasing butterflies and jumping from cloud to cloud! Rest well, my beautiful friend