Bisart Dobes

Yup.

Great! It's my birthday that day, you should come out to dinner with us after the seminar?? OoooooooooH - sounds like fun.

I am glad to say I booked my spot as well - can't wait .

I call my dogs what suits them - who says what is a dogs name and what is a persons name anyway. Sometimes I hear someones kids name and think 'thats a great dog name' . We have Rhemy, Lexi, Darred, Charli :D, Ryder, Boo, Emme, Bella, Quinn, Jade & Groc :D. All suit their names or their names suit them. Its a free country - well mostly. . .

Unfortunately this is why we with docked breeds have had such problems...because so many others don't care about other breeds....we forget, that right now, we have lost the right to crop and dock because some people out there are louder and have made some rules in an area they either don't understand or unqualified to comment on.....for those of you with undocked breeds....be patient, one day you will have your right to keep your breed as you originally fell in love with it, challenged....and then will anyone else care that you have a problem? Probably not. I'm all for keeping records and documenting the new issues that have come with not docking, however ALL data needs to be recorded or it simply means nothing and is empty data. It becomes a very one sided arguement if we can not back up the docking cause, with FULL support data. It's like submitting a thesis and not having to argue it.....all it becomes is a lengthy series of words, a good story if you will. As a result, means really nothing. To throw a wrench into this debate, and remember..I'm very much PRO docking.....to date, we have no documented cases of severe tail injuries to my breed (another pinscher breed) Sure we have kinks/hooks/bends etc that pop out at birth, and if we could dock, we would make them disappear....now they are out there for the world to see. We have had a few natural bob tails born in this breed, clearly a birth defect and cause for concern as I have to wonder how this will affect the spine and mobility in maturity, but time will tell on that one. Globally, and remembering that this breed has been denied docking rights in quite a few countries for some time now, we have no documented case of amputation due to injury, or injury resulting in restraint/confinement of the tail (breaking, splitting etc) Anyone that has been around the GP, knows fully well how hard they can slap with that tail and how much it stings if you get one across the face, so that same tail hitting a door frame no doubt will be damaged to some degree, at this point however, they haven't been. Does this mean, because we aren't fighting injury after injury, that I am resigned to state that docking is not needed? No....it means I am glad that the dogs are not going through pain and discomfort because of a political decision, but I'll still push where I have to push, to be permitted to dock my breed as it was intended to be. I used to work tirelessly for the fight against BSL / anti tail docking / etc etc movements in this state/country - many years, hours and hours and hours of my own time, money and energy - years of meeting with the government / councils etc etc. Eventually I got sick to death of being attacked from within the 'dog world' for being over the top - for stating that tail docking was only the beginning - that once this was pushed through the RSPCA simply move onto step 2, then step 3 and on and on. And they will - they are very patient and very dedicated - they will just keep on poking away until they get what they want - it took 10 years of dedication on their behalf to get tail docking banned in this country - but dedicated they were and single minded they are. They will not stop and no matter how long it takes they will roll over everyone they wish to. This is where we need to be - all totally dedicated to our own breed and cause. With a plan for the future of our own breed and its future. There is nothing stopping any other breed from collating data on their breed - on any matter - health issues, temperament, tail damange, etc etc. And I am glad that your breed don't have the level of tail damage that ours does. Fantastic for your dogs and for your breed. But your breed is constructed totally differently than a Dobermann - regardless of them both being 'pinschers' - they are totally different. Maybe this is why your breed isn't being inflicted with injuries and ours is. Who knows. But by having a national database on all breeds doesn't help our cause with our breed - esp if your breed is not having an issue. Now I choose to dedicate the extra time, money and energy I have to fighting for my own breed. That is my choice. That is my right.

"And what are the numbers so far? In comparison." "Oh I would love to see this, do you have a link?" It is not ready yet but once it is I will certainly publicise it as we want to get as many records as we can. I do not know of all injuries etc within our breed but two I know of are: 2 litters - 5 now docked after constant injury. 1 litter - 2 now docked - 4 constantly injured. At this point it will be Dobermanns only as far as I know. Personally I don't care about other breeds and their issues this is my breed and this is what I have dedicated my life to.

I've asked this before and received little response. How many dogs, previously docked in their breed, have had injuries to their tails since docking has been banned? One, two, many? Without numbers to prove that large numbers of dogs previously docked now have tail injuries, the argument 'they break their tails' is meaningless to the people who count: the lawmakers. We have two litters with full tails. 1. 5 puppies - 3 have broken tips and 1 has broken tip and constant damage further down the tail - this is cut, bruised, swollen and most of the hair is permanently off that part of her tail - she will not let you touch it most of the time and it does cause her pain often. They are 7 months 2. 10 puppies - 2 have broken tips and 1 has damage further down the tail - they are 3 months. There is a register / website being put together so that there is a central point for all damage data to be collated and this will be used to lobby governments to reverse this law. But when we have people who are dead against it being changed from within the dog world we have no hope really. These people have to realise that when their breed is attacked by the RSPCA for whatever different characteristic it has (which makes it the breed in most cases) they won't have any support either because we just won't be around.

What in the heck does video taping a dog with a broken tail have to do with what I said? Wow there are some nutters on here. Again... you have a breed that used to be docked. Why are Dalmatians not docked when they are just as likely to break their tails than a Doberman? You wrote "And those people who use "they break their tails" as an argument are you serious?" I believe that extensive injury or breaking their tails and being in pain is a good reason to dock a dog / a breed. And maybe by seeing the level of pain and distress my young girl goes through you may open your mind up and see that this is not just an asthetic point of view. Then maybe not.

I have offered O/S dog breeders from whom I am getting semen referee's here in Aus if they wanted (people we both would know and people I know won't spread hotfire gossip) but they weren't interested. More interested in our dogs health records etc etc But I totally agree with confidentiality - no-one here will know who the dog is until the bitch is confirmed in whelp and the puppies are on the way. Too much can go wrong in the process.

Gentec have always been fantastic with all our testing - always results back within 7 to 14 days - always available - always efficient. Order and pay for tests online and you will get discounts which makes it price wise a bit better. I would rather pay a little more and have the results without fuss than try and save money and not get any. We had a possible dual sire litter our second last litter - one sire being in Qld and to get his dna sample to Vic and batched with our dam/other sire and puppies was no issue at all - full results dna profile, parentage and vWD back to us within 10 days of his sample being taken. Very happy with them to date. Also you need to make sure that the other companies are certified - ie the results will be accepted by the ANKC as certified in order to register puppies or breed or whatever your breed health requirements are.

How many Great Danes are running through thick scrub? Fighting dogs were also cropped to prevent the opposition grabbing their ears but dog fighting is banned in this country so there is no basis to crop for prophylactic reasons. How many poodles do you see still being used to retrieve ducks? I don't know of any, yet until the law was changed they were a docked breed. I don't know what dog fighting has to do with anything, I was talking about legal, practical reasons. And those people who use "they break their tails" as an argument are you serious? What about Dalmatians or Danes or Whippets, are we going to start docking them because they break their tails? Really? I know one of mums Danes broke her tail several times whacking it on door frames, guess she should have picketed to make them a docked breed then. I know the majority of show people don't like that the rule has been changed and most people don't like not being able to dock their dogs but it is unnecessary. You can't honestly tell me besides looks and "they break their tails" there is one good reason for you to dock your dog... and original purpose is not a reason unless you actively hunt or actually own a farm and work your dog. Go ahead and flame me, I'm used to it. Breaking their tails not a good reason ? Ok, so next time my young girl injures her tail and is screaming in her crate or the trailer I will maintain the presence of mind to grab the video camera and record her in all her stress - and I will put it on our website with a link so that you can enjoy the fact that she was not unnecessarly docked. While I would prefer to have our dogs docked we have two litters on the ground with full tails since the law changed and both litters with multiple puppies are consistently beating docked dogs in our breed - the young girl above was awarded two challenges over this past weekend and over docked competition. So my preference for having them docked is not asthetic really - it is for the welfare of our beautiful dogs.

Hi, Natropath in Narre Warren North - Carol Freeman, 9796 8330. Skin allergies are almost always systemically based - traditional veterinary treatments mask the problem but don't fix it. Natropathy works on the base issues and Carol will sort your dog out - one that has been so chronic will probably take some time to work through but we always see a change in our dogs within 48 hours after her treatments start. Good luck.

It pains me to read this and while I know that there is a high possibilty of docked breeds being banned from the showring through the ANKC I dread the day. We obviously have a docked breed. Our last two litters have full tails (not docked) as per the law in this country. The first full tailed litter had 5 surviving puppies due to viral infection and of those 5 we have 1 bitch with constant tail injuries & broken tip of tail, 2 boys with broken tips of tail, 1 boy with injuries further down tail and the other bitch with no injuries to date - they are 7 months old. The second full tailed litter had 9 surviving puppies and of those we have 1 boy with broken tip of tail and two boys & two girls with injuries further down the tail - they are 3 months old. From our experience I know that at least one of the first litter will have to be docked properly and who knows with the rest. But we cannot find a vet to do the right thing by the dogs with these constant injuries and dock them. My point is - What happens with show dogs with full tails, who have injuries sustained that require removal of tail ??? Will she not be able to be shown under that change of rules. Not at all fair when we are abiding by the law in this country to have that taken away from us due to ANKC ruling. I hope it never changes and we will be sending our bitches to NZ in the future. To much stress to the dogs we have on the ground up to date with full tails.

Thanks for your comment Bisart Dobes... would love to think there was still some hope What breed has your sister got? We saw the spines of the puppies on the ultrasound on Sunday but we couldn't see anything on the ultrsound on Monday morning, nor could the vet. It would be so nice to think her puppies were still there but even her teats have considerably decreased in size since Monday and she has lost 3 kgs in weight from when we weighed her last Wednesday to when we weighed her the following Monday when we had the second ultrasound done She is a Welsh Springer. Fingers crossed for you and your girl, my sisters girl lost a bit of weight too - thats why she was so stressed when she felt the swelling etc etc and rushed her to the local vet. I guess the main thing is that your bitch is ok - that was my sisters biggest worry - loss of puppies is very hard to deal with but at least your girl is fine.

Sounds almost identical to my sisters bitch - she bled for 7 days - 1 1/2 days b4 my sister got her to a repo vet - was told no puppies left but could see where they had been so her girl was put on antibiotics just in case of infection. My sister contacted me early this week her bitch had a swelling and was hot and panting etc etc took her to a closer vet as she was worried that she had an infection. Nope - no infection but she still has puppies and is due any day now (can't recall exactly when). Vets can't explain it.

It is devestating to see the people who couldn't save their pets - like the lady here on the newscast with the horses - she got 4 out but then lost the last 2. And thats only one in how many. I couldn't and wouldn't leave my dogs behind. We had a puppy flying into Qld on Monday - but after speaking to her new owners and assessing the situation we cancelled it. They have been devestated by the floods - have lost everything. God my heart goes out to them - its just so hard as there is nothing you can do and nothing we can do to help. I am very glad we didn't have a baby puppy on the ground though.

After judging - what a load of - - - - !!! So what happens if a dog wins BOB & is then disqualified from competing further - does the RUBOB then be awarded the BOB and points and compete for the group ??? If this were going to be implemented and mean squat the vet check needs to be done prior to any judging. This is like the Melb Cup runners getting a vet check at the completion of the race - :D

So take your puppies and your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ elsewhere. And tell them why.

WOW & thanks guys - all of these are great - Keshwar thats the one I was looking for - thank you. We have one dog who's owners had him desexed at 5 months on vet advice - he was rehomed at 14 months due to marriage break up and is in the best of homes but everytime I see him it breaks my heart to see his front feet esp but how is has been detrimental to his whole structure and development. The damage it does isn't worth it. Thanks again.

I know there was a discussion re this topic several months ago and have done a search but nothing has come up. There was a fantastic post in this topic which listed all the veterinary issues that can come up because of early desexing. I am looking for this because one of our puppy owners have been told by their vet that if they don't get their dog desexed at 6 months he will be aggressive, etc etc We recommend minimum of 12 months for males primarily due to bone growth / muscle mass issues (but not only) which I have explained to them prior to them buying the puppy but the puppy owners husband was os at the time and he is the one who has taken the puppy to the vet for final vaccs & been told this. So I would like to back it up with this list of issues if I can. Muchly appreciate the link to the prior topic if possible - think it was from one of the rottie people from memory. Thanks

What about Travolta ??? He is a parti boy, incredibly handsome, the best disco dancer, fights the good fight etc etc

It is against the rules. End of story - they should be reported and dealt with accordingly. We recently had our 8 yr old desexed and I was very suprised when the vet told me that they did not have to tattoo her ear anymore. It used to be a requirement when a dog was desexed but that has obviously changed. I can just imagine how many people get their bitches desexed and show them just because who would know ?? There is no identifying mark now and it rely's on exhibitors honesty.

Depending on the problem try either: Carol Freeman on 9796 8330 (is available) (Narrewarren) or Lyn Mawson on 0412 310 479 (not sure if ava)(Kew)

Heartbreaking for anyone who has to leave pets behind - hope everyone who needs help gets it. A friend up there has said that there are plenty of safe areas designated and that there is plenty of warning - so there is time to get pets to safety before things get desperate - just hope everyone takes those chances to make sure their pets are safe. BUT I am going to have a bitch about the RSPCA. They are ruthlessly pushing governments to make it harder and harder for foster carers and other rescue groups - but now they can't cope they want these same people to step up and pick up their slack. I know that the rescue/foster groups will and so would I if I were in the area as its about the animals not politics but who do they think they are - they will be back pushing the gov's as soon as their needs are met. RSPCA = Swearword !!!!!

BIG - DOBE - my young boy & thats his title RUBIG - SIBE BABY - MASTIFF MINOR - MIN SCH PUPPY - SAMMY JUNIOR - ??? INT - RUBIG AUST - BIG OPEN - ROTTY Sorry don't have names - lost my catalogue. Think thats all right - can't remember junior sorry.