SpikesPuppy

Oh Louise, thank you for sharing your peaches story! It really helps knowing that other people get upset over such silly things. Darn our dogs for having quirky tastes & habits Thank you, Ysabel ;) OnslowsMum- so sorry to hear of your loss. I also know what you mean about not having told people, I only told my closest friends about Tim at first. The ones who I knew loved her almost as much as I do. Everyone else only sorta found out when they had to (like when a friend came over and noticed the empty yard!). I hope little Matilda-Rose is settling in and helping Onslow along, and you of course. The distraction can certainly help. Thanks again Very theraputic to sit here and sorta ramble away. And read other people's experiences and feelings. It's really helpful.

Thank you everyone for your kind words of support. My thoughts go out to all of you as well. I meant to reply earlier than this but coming back into this thread has been difficult to do. But all your lovely words and knowing I'm not alone in feeling this way- makes it a little easier. I'm going to talk to my GP about it, and possibly get something to help me sleep (I have the same horrible dreams abut Tim over and over and over-it's really messing my already-crazy sleep patterns up!) I've had to put my TAFE course on hold for the time-being, explaining why wasn't an easy task and I think I am now viewed as a crazy person but we can't help the way we feel and we can't help how grief choses to work it's way through us. I bought myself a little Dobermann figurine a few weeks back, it's American and so has cropped ears but it's still a Dobie. I'm also on the lookout (as are my friends) for a decent Dobie stuffed toy. However, my friend bought me a giant pink stuffed bunny the week after Tim left us- nice to cuddle when it's cold, and takes up some of 'Tim's space' on the bed hehe. I'm working on a small poem/passage about her to put on the cremation company's website, but it's taking time. I haven't found all the right words yet. So many things to say about her, so many stories to tell! I also have a small locket which I bought just before Tim left us, when I buy some varnish or similar I plan to paste some of her ashes into it, so she can be with me always. Also, I got my new computer the afternoon after Tim left us (Mum decided I needed one and it was the perfect time as it would give me something to do) so I named it 'Timothy'. KayeL- I understand what you mean about the Guide Dog Money boxes, and bringing back memories of Maya. When Tim was a pup, she'd try and crawl down the storm-water drains on the side of the footpath, If I allow myself to look at them, the memories come flooding in and I get teary. Who gets teary looking at a drain? I knew it was going to be difficult, and it's always taken time to 'move on' (poor choice of wording!) from the loss of my other late pets, but I'm still suprised at how difficult this has been. Once again, thank you so much everyone. This is the gorgeous box in which Timothy now resides; it's somewhat theraputic to run my hands along the carving. And this is a banner of her that i found. I made it a few months back and forgot I even had it!

It's been almost a month and a half since I said goodbye to my gorgeous girl, Timothy. The first few weeks I was alright, I knew it was her time, i knew she was ready and life was too much for her. But over the last 3 or so weeks, I've been struggling to deal with it. I've been so depressed, finding it really hard to concentrate (and I've just started a TAFE course, which I've missed half of due to distraction and general depression) and every time I see a Dobie, German Pinscher or Manchester Terrier (or a GSP's ears!) my heart gets heavy and I just miss her so much. I've said goodbye to so many pets over the years (the joys of rodents, eh!), and other dogs, and one of my horses, and while it's been heartbreaking, I've been able to move on, with the occasional pangs when it's an anniversary, their birthday, looking at photos etc. But with Tim, it's been so differnt. Prehaps it's because she was with me half my life (she was my 11th birthday present, I'm now 21) and she was given to me shortly after my mum came out of a 6-month hospital stay. And we just DID so much together. She was MY first dog, as opposed to a family dog. I don't know. I just wish I didn't feel like this. I just don't know what to do at the moment. I've been spending extra time with my other furkids, working harder than ever with them, but it hasn't made me feel any better. Does anyone have any tips or hints on 'moving on' or at the very least, coping with such a loss? Thank you, Elsa

Thanks everyone Your kind words mean so much. So it's been just over a month now and I'm finally getting used to having more space on the bed (just sharing with my Border atm lol), and I'm getting used to the bbackyard being empty during the day (she loved her outside space-outside dog by choice), though i still can't bring myself to look at her kennel. And feeding time is interesting. Of course, it's quicker now but i still find myself looking for the 5th bowl..... And it's hard everytime i see a Dober, or a dog resembling a Dober (Manchester Terrier and German Pinscher specifically) it's difficult. But i know she's free of pain and worry now. She'll be watching over me (and the rest of the critters!), looking after us all. If any dog ever had a 6th sense, she did. Mjosa- I'm so sorry for your loss. It's hard when their the 'old girls'. When they've been part of your life for so long! But of course, they have their reasons for being here and their time is limited. I'm sure our two gorgeous girls are cooking up some trouble on their side of The 'Bridge. Rozzie- Thank you. I'm really proud of her name (if one can be proud of a name!). Nat- Yes, I saw your Wilbur on the website! I plan to put on eup for Tim, just haven't got the right words yet. It'll come with time. Once again, thank you everyone.

On Saturday, the 18th of February, 2006, I had to say goodbye to my beloved Dobermann X girl, Miss Timothy Anjelika. At 10 years, 6 months and 9 days old, life just got too much for her. Every day she grew more fearful of the little things, and she would forget who her family was. Her quality of life was quickly fading. On Saturday morning, mum & I drove her to the vet clinic & as soon as our wonderful vet saw the looks on our faces, she understood. She had known Tim since she was a young, nutty dog, and she had seen her mature into a sweet, obedient member of society. Our Vet needed to take several moments to compose herself before she even thought about putting the needle in. It was almost as hard for her as it was for us. Of course, being Timothy, she didn't go down without a fuss. Being a big wuss, she squirmed and struggled away from the needle. Until we gave her a pig's ear, and then a sedative. Finally Timothy was calm enough to put the needle in and she fell asleep for the last time with her head on my lap and her paw in my hand. We made the decisision to have her cremated and the people were fantastic. They came to the vet clinic (and as soon as they saw her, the first thing they said was "Look at that coat!" of course, I'm biased but Tim's coat was absolutely stunning. Sleek and black), placed Tim into a lovely satin-lined basket and then transferred the basket to the back of their beautifully decorated station wagon where Mum & I were able to sit with Tim for as long as we wanted, with soft music piped through the speakers. It helped me so much to be able to proudly share the life of my best friend with these strangers. Tim was a fantastic dog (and a literal Hero in her life). She had shared in half my life with me and I'll never forget her. I'll never forget the first time I saw her, and the last time. Her ashes are now back here with us, with a small amount having been placed into a locket and some also sprinkled in the garden over her favourite sun-patch. I love you, Timothy Anjelika. *Pictures taken approx. 2 months before she left us.

Newfoundland gets bathed every 3 months or so. When his natural oils start to really come through he picks up all kinds of dirt and scents. Dobe gets bathed very rarely, if it's hot I'll give her a bath but otherwise she doesn't really need it and her wet-dog smell smells like Mushrooms! I hate it. Border Terrier has only been bathed once in his 15 months of life and that was when he found a nice dead bird to roll in! Kelpie/Whippet gets bathed on the odd ocassion, but like the Dobe will get bathed more in Summer to cool her down (have only had her since January). Btu thankfully she does NOt smell like horrible mushrooms! Shih Tzu X gets bathed every 2-3 weeks as he's an SWF.

'Tis true, but as these actually have the wording on them they would be very useful when walking in public or at public events etc. I'm considering getting one for my Dobergirl and even my Newf (he likes his personal bubble!).

Just re-asking this question because it seems to ahve gotten missed and I'm very curious. No. A well trained dog may look like a robot, except of course they look as if they are having a wonderful time, wagging tail, thrembling, salivating and keen eye focus. In retrieving trials they are expected and do hunt on their own, mostly out of sight of the handler. A good question all the same!!!!! and one that is particularly relevant in all aspects of training. Ta for that I only asked because my 3 favourite breeds (Newfoundland, Border Terrier & Norwegian Lundehund) are all dogs required at some time in their 'job' to think for themselves and make their own decisions (I'm sure it's not decision making in the same way as humans do it but I'm sure you know what I mean!). These dog's ability relies on their ability to think and problem solve. Whilst, as I've said, I like to see my dogs do 'doggy things' (yes even digging up the garden!), I DO see value in this training method and I would consider imposing it on a pup in the future, and I find this a most interesting topic to read and ponder. To add to the lying in front of a door topic- my Newfoundland lies infront of a closed door, when he is in the same room as me (which he always is, joined at the hip we are lol), but I see this more as a protection thing? As he will move from the door if I say "Move yer ass" (which is my command for move and it's said in a light tone lol), and he will allow me to open it and will follow me through- NOT barge in front of me. Is this him protecting me, habit, or him confused as to who's Alpha?

Indeed many people do assume headhalters to be safe, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss them instantly as a potentially effective tool. It would be more effective IMO to explain the possible dangers. I mean, not many people would believe a dog could damage itself using a flat collar but it can and does happen! Not to mention dogs who slip flat collars because it's not tight enough, stretches over time, slides over a dog's narrow head etc. With regards to training and 'professional advice' it's not always possible- some people just don't have the time to attend an obedience class (not meaning no time but don't have time at the same time as classes are run), nor do they have the money for private lessons at a more appropriate time. And there is a suprising lack of obedience classes near to Train stations which I find extremely annoying as I don't drive and have no plans to in the near future, either. I'm not saying it's an excuse to be 'lazy' but I do feel that there are circumstances where a quick fix type situation is neccesarry or appropriate, even if it's not the most desirable solution. And please, don't assume that everyone who uses a halter on their dog is lazy or not interested in training their dog.

Not to be argumentative, but is there any training aid/tool that IS totally safe?

I used a Halti brand haedcollar on my Dobermann for a period because not only did she pull but she also went through a period where she was very sensitive to anything on her neck (such as a collar, she'd go bald and get a rash under it). I never liked it much because it would leave a mark on her and she didn't like it, but there wasn't much else I could use back then. Then we went to a new obedience club and tried out the Blackdog brand Headcollar and it was great. While she hated the Halti, she would shove her nose straight into the Blackdog headcollar, tail wagging. So we used this for a little while until I decided to try her on her flat collar and she was perfectly fine! So she doesn't need her headcollaranymore (though I do sometimes put it on her if we're going into a large crowd, or when mum walks her, just to have that extra bit of control and because she *can* be dog agressive it's easier to be able to control her head but I NEVER jerk or yank her, if anything I jiggle the lead, to make a 'hey you' noise and she looks straight up at me). Now I walk her on a Limited Slip collar. We bought a Gentle leader for our rescue Kelpie, but it doesn't fit her properly, but we're most interested in the new Infin* halter by Blackdog and will be getting one once they are released. I can walk Iko on a flat or limited slip collar (Haven't tried her on a Martingale), but mum can't as easily and mum just doesn't have as much time to spend working with the dog. I do believe that some people DO use halters and headcollars as a 'quick fix' and never have their dogs trained enough to walk on a flat collar, but at least they have done SOMETHING and at least they WALK their dogs. It's better than dumping them or putting them to sleep. And I also believe as others have said, there are good reasons for needing a quick fix such as injury, infirmness, heck, even just a busy parent who's got a pram, a toddler and a dog to handle all at once! And not everyone uses it as a quick fix either, there are many people who work on TRAINING thier dogs to walk nicely, if they get their using a headcollar then so be it. Along with many others- I see a headcollar as a tool and like any other tool it can be used correctly and have excellent results but it can also be used incorrectly and have disastrous results.

Just re-asking this question because it seems to ahve gotten missed and I'm very curious.

That's pretty sad but I can also see some logic in that. With serious working dogs. But if it was a similar situation with an average pet (creating such a tight bond on purpose so that the dog couldn't live without you) I would consider that incredibly cruel. BUT from K9's response to my query it seems that most dogs transfer their bond to another handler quite readily? (Not talking about certain individual dogs that just couldn't live with a new person)

Continuing on with dogs bred to work independantly & think for themselves- would it remove the dog's ability to work on it's own?

K9: new handler takes over... Fair enough. But woudl the new handler have to continue with the same method and treatment of the dog? For example, if I die tomorrow, my mum would be looking after my 3 dogs (along with her 2). But I know she doesn't have the time, knowledge, and probably not even the desire, for that kind of relationship with my dogs. Can a dog previously raised via this method ever be retrained to live as the average family mutt? I also just don't like the idea *personally* of being a dog's be-all-and-end-all. I choose to live with dogs as companions, not as worshippers. The idea of a dog that bends to my every whim with complete devotion just doesn't appeal to me *shrug*. I do enjoy discovering new things with my dogs, learning new tricks together through offered behaviours etc. Different strokes for differnt folks. Also, does this method work the same with the more independant/pack-oriented breeds? Such as Terriers bred to work independantly, Spitz breeds, pack hounds like Foxhounds & Beagles etc? When I go out, I assume the dogs all sleep except for my 15 month Border Terrier. He has the run of the hallway and my mum's bedroom and before we leave I place a few selected toys in with him (different ones each day). I get home and nothing is touched bar his toys which are strewn around his area. he's been left like this since 4months old and he's never chewed anything that wasn't his. As for digging in the garden- he has his own area he is allowed to dig and this is the only place he does dig. He really is a very easy dog to live with. So are the others though the 2 bitches have a few problem behaviours (both are rescues) but nothing drastic or that I can't deal with.

Whislt I can understand why you would want to be the sole provider of EVERYTHING for your dog (food, fun, comfort etc) I can't help but wonder what happens if you get sick/die/circumstances change and cannot look after your dog? Not quite the same, but I trained my Newfoundland to only take food from my hand or from his bowl upon my command. I went away for a weekend and the whole weekend he would not eat. He wasn't fretting or pining for me (though he did spend most of his time beside my bed). Soon as I got home I put his bowl down, gave him the command and away he went. Then a few months later he went to a boarding kennel- same thing; he just would not eat and I had to collect him early. So I spent some time re-training him to eat from other people etc. So yeah, I'm concerned what happens to the dog if it's World (human) is taken away? Also I'm just wondering- that method of bonding etc, that wouldn't really work if you worked a 9-5 day would it? Even if you had to work a few hours a day, unless it was from home or you had regular access to the dog you would have to occupy it somehow via toys or something? Personally I like the idea of my dogs being like dogs. There's nothing I love more than seeing my young Border Terrier constantly 'making up' new games with his toys/balls. And I love seeing the dogs do zoomies around the yard together. I love telling Caber to 'pick a toy' each night before bed and seeing him dig around in his toybox, choose his toy and then proudly trott off down the hallway and plop on his blanket.

My horse ribbons/sashes are hanging over the curtain rail in the living room (impresses visitors :rolleyes: ). Caber's place ribbons are clipped onto a bulldog clip which is hung on a nail and the ribbons hang down between a picture of Timothy & Spike. His rosettes are on the same wall. And his sashes are strung up on a string which is held between 2 nails. All these are on the wall behind my computer. Other dog/pet ribbons (from obedience, comminuty festival comps, rat shows etc) are randomly about the house.

My Dobe and my Border Terrier both sleep on my bed. Dobe sleeps at my feet under the blankets and my BT sleeps either with his head on my neck or on the spare pillow I have. Usually I find myself waking up with my head on HIM as a pillow lol. Which isn't the most comfortable feeling as his coat is quite rough and wirey lol. But he's nice and cuddly in winter In summer if I ahve the portable fan going so it blows on me, my Newfoundland will often join us- just so he can get some fan air rofl. Now that's fun Imagine it- a single bed with jiust a sheet (I have to be covered up otherwise I freak out no matter how hot it is), a20 yr old girl, a 30 kilo Dobermann, 70 kilo newfoundland furball and a 10 kilo Terrier. Here is where Caber quite often ends up-

On the advice of Caber's breeder I only had him vaccinated twice and with c3 only (well he had 2 vaccinations- the first was done before he came to us and the 2nd was done at 12 weeks).

I'd love to come watch, is that possible? We don't own a herding breed unfortunately (well tehre is our Kelpie X but I don't know if X breeds are allowed? And she's never shown any indication of being a herding breed lol). But I would love to see what herding is all about! See if one day I'd like to get a herding breed

Mum and I wont be doing the BBQ thing- we're bringing sandwiches instead. We're lazy

I can't wait One more sleep to go!!!

I think everyone bringing their own food may be easiest? That way we don't ahve to worry about vegitarians or whatever. I will be there with Caber and Iko and my mum.

I know I was supposed to be at the July one and wasn't but we will definately be at this one I don't think Iko would forgive us if she missed another one lol. So my mum, myself, Iko the black Kelpie and Caber the Border Terrier will be there ;)

Oh Jeff you have to come!!!!! Who else will be able to keep up with Iko if Max isn't there? I'm happy that we have at least one dog who's mad-keen on it lol. Iko pulls and pulls and just goes pretty much bonkers when she realises what she is at KCC to do