SpikesPuppy

I could steal here and hide her amongst my scruffers and you wouldn't know Well done! She is a little star already

Ta guys :D Kate- I miss showing so much I don't care what group the results are from LOL. So bored at home... Well done Zara WAY TO GO BRIAN!!!

Results please??? :D

plenty of established lines - but also some mongrels. bullarab would be the most recognised as a line www.bullarab.com.au as well as the bullygrey both have records back 30 years. There are also a lot of family line dogs.. usually kept in tight circles This site has only a couple of lines on their as well as some pures. http://www.huntingpigdog.com/ There are a few pure dogs that can bail pigs - catahoula, and most of your working dogs. A pig dog is an all in one package usually.. Not many people feed a dog that can find a dog that can run fast a dog that can catch and dog thats a great companion.. Both of mine are all in one. Thanks for the info & links! I would think that some pigdogs would be great examples of cross breeding for a purpose. Lurchers would be another, no?? I am all for pures and pedigrees but I think it is a big call to say that a pedigree is automatically 'superior' to a cross breed if they are bred for the same purpose, if that makes any sense?? ETA hope I didn't offend anyone using the term 'mongrel' I actually prefer it to crossbreed (now associate it with DDs grr)

Aren't most pigdogs purpose-bred mongrels? Are there any pure breeds used in Australia for pigging on a regular basis??

Happy Birthday, Rex! He really is a stunningly handsome boy.

Sunbury (Melbourne Cup Day)

I disagree...I think if your dog reacts aggressively towards all dogs and you could not stop a fight from happening if another dog simply approached, then yes I think they should be muzzled. If either of my dogs consistently showed dog aggression to every dog that approached they would definitely be wearing a muzzle when out. My dogs don't love every dog they meet, but I know what kinds of dogs they play best with, I also only take my dogs to a very quiet off-leash area, where they may only see 1 or 2 other dogs at most. For me I know that Jessie is OTT with trying to round up small dogs so I now leash her around them if she is too interested in them. Jessie normally has good recall (especially when i've remembered to bring treats) so that is very easy to manage. For Tilly I know that she doesn't tolerate boisterous in your face dogs or anxious dogs, so I try to move away at the park or i'll get Tilly swimming instead, and by the time she paddles back the dog is normally gone. Excuse me?? Where did I say that my dog reacts aggressively to all other dogs??? If you actually read any of my other posts in this thread, you would be aware that he only reacts & does not instigate, and it is very rare nowdays anyway, even if threatened, because he trusts in me as his leader, and like you, I know what kinds of dog he plays best with, as well as carefully observing his body language. FTR he has never bitten another dog either (but has himself been bitten... by a Shetland Sheepdog which was off leash). And I have never said my dog is aggressive to fellow dog walkers- it is an assumption that they (like you) make when I say something along the lines of "he doesn't like all dogs" or "He's not the friendliest". Apparently not like=aggressive.

So very sorry for your loss, Sarah. Run free gorgeous little man.

Had a similar problem with a friend. Unfortunately, they previously owned a pedigree dog from a highly regarded breeder that ended up with a hereditary disorder (resulting in the dog's death at a young age) and little care from said breeder. Bought another pup of the same breed from a pet shop.. so far he is doing well (4 years old I think) and they are very happy with him etc. Anyway, she wanted to get a pup for her daughter (interested in obedience etc as they go with the older dog), I suggested either a rescue pup or something along the lines of a Cavalier or a Sheltie.... at one point they were almost going to get a Skye terrier X Shih Tzu (I managed to convince them this was a bad idea and although Skyes are pretty etc they are a real hard terrier etc)... just before Christmas they got a 'pure bred Shi Tzu' (that's how they spell it ). Saw pictures and it is as cute as anything but it's not a pb Shih Tzu... my guess is Lhasa Apso (it has a full muzzle)... it came from either a pet shop or a breeder, Im not sure which but definitely not a reg'd breeder. Big sigh. I do know this pup will be very much loved and he will get the best of care etc but it is just so frustrating.

There are a few breeds I've seen in the show ring here that one could say the same about. But then I suppose it's all in the details, I had my gorgeous, wonderful, perfectly pedigreed boy call a "kelpie--crossy-thingo" by someone who should have known better. Meh. You get used to it! With us having Border Terriers and the collie smooth..... you feel like cuddling anyone who knows what breed they are LMAO. And just wait until I add my wirey Vizsla.............. that's gonna be fun :rolleyes: LOL we do the 'Lassie with a haircut" thing too. When Nessa was a puppy, people thought she was an AmStaff????? The most common one she gets though is "Some kind of Collie??" which is close enough. Had an argument with a rough collie owner a few months back- she was walking her rough puppy and I stopped to say hello etc and explained that we had a smooth collie "Oh, you mean a border collie?" "No, a smooth Collie, close cousin to the rough" "OH! One of those cross breeds" the conversation went on and on about how we were ripped off etc I guess all those judges are idiots then hey? Awarding a mongrel... Also, I think it really throws people off when we say we have Border Terriers and a Collie smooth. They hear "Border" and "Collie"

If someone tries that line on me, my response will be "if you obey the law and leash your dog, he doesn't need to be". That's usually what I say if I don't just turn around and walk off but the thing is, he IS well trained and obedient (he is at the point where when I stop, he will either sit or drop and just look at the other dog like a big idiot ). Some breeds he will go nuts over (in a happy way), 'cos he loves them (Cavs, GSDs, anything fluffy LOL and anything smaller than him, he wants to play with and occasionally screams if he's not allowed to say hello :rolleyes: ). We do have a white stafford pup who is walked off leash... the other day I was cutting through the park (on my own) and it came barreling upto me, the owners said "it's okay, he's friendly!" I said hello to the pup and naturally, ended up getting covered in Staffy kisses. Talked to the owners for a bit and they were saying how most people cross the street etc. Then I found out he's fine with people but tries to kill other dogs he shouldn't be off leash in the first place but he's dog aggressive???? ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH. I just hope we never run into him while I'm walking my kids.

A German weim can still be suitable as a pet. But for really committed families and not just the average one. Breeding for working ability willl not mean that every individual is high drive, and high drive doesn't mean that the dog won't be a good pet for the right family. The danger with breeding away from high drive dogs is that you risk inadvertantly losing the dogs with good strong solid nerve. Because the less solid dogs will be more likely not to show the high drives on command. If a family want a large short coated dog, and cannot handle high prey drive, copious amounts of energy and endurance, the desire to retrieve, the desire to chase, the desire to be a companion and the desire to protect, perhaps they need to look at other breeds. There are plenty to choose from. Precisely Greytmate - COMMITTED families - which is exactly why the German club has strict requirements in order to be able to own a weimaraner... they have recognised that the weimaraner has specific requirements, and in order to maintain the integrity of the breed, they have made it so that the owner suits the dog, not the other way around. In Australia, UK, US and many parts of Europe, these requirements do not need to be met.... in order to ensure that the weimaraner is a happy "pet" first, they have curbed the temperament somewhat in order to ensure a family friendly companion. Most of the time, the Weimaraner will still retain the intense desire to be with their immediate family, which is why many think that the breed is a little high strung and suffers separation anxiety. In truth separation anxiety is quite rare in the weimaraner - just that their desire to be with their family is strong, and so are they However I do agree with you about breeding away from high drive can result in nervous dogs,and I have seen that in many lines in the past... but more recently I have seen less of the nervousness and more friendly disposition. I like a weimaraner somewhere in between... strong nerve, wary of strangers but intensely friendly with those they know well. Lucky for me my weimaraner is exactly that. Weimaraners can be a high maintenance breed Carlibud, but less so now than before due to being quite selective with temperaments. However anyone looking to get a weimaraner, for example, would need to be aware of the possibility of getting a high drive, high energy dog... and be prepared for it. I do not think that everyone is. Before i got Ari our Weimaraners were all high energy with an off switch... friendly with strangers but also nervous of certain things. When I got Ari she had nerves of steel the moment she walked out of the crate at the airport she owned the world... She is certainly a lot closer to the weims in Germany than her happy-go-lucky cousins... so what is more ideal? if i breed with her, do i choose a dog with a softer temperament to suit the Australian Family, or do i find new owners who want a weim that will do what it was bred for? (even if they aren't going to put any of that into action). Great post SP... however it is down to us, as breeders, to dictate what we want from our owners. Again looking at the german weimaraner club, YOU have to meet THEIR requirements. They certainly do not lack lines and prospective owners but they do have to work harder in order to ensure their dogs are what they have always been,by proving they can work, meet conformation and be an effective guardian but also companion to their families. If it was the will of breeders and clubs in Australia to go in the direction of proving that their breed can work as it did years ago, then they would need to be more selective in their owners. Would it ensure that families who want that breed would take on the responsibility and work hard to meet the requirements? Or, in this "I want it now and I have the right to have it now" society we live in, would it mean the downfall for our breeds? Sorry for turning this into a thread about Weimaraners, but they are a good example of a breed which has gone in different directions... and although the German clubs protocol on owning a weimaraner may be seen as elitist, it certainly works in protecting their breed from people who shouldn't own them. ETA... as much as it pains me to say this, we are doing exactly what media says we are doing, if we continue to breed for dogs with less temperament traits required for the job they used to do... we are breeding for a traditional look... ok flame suit on... I think what the Weim club in Germany is doing is fantastic BUT I don't know if something like that would work in a country like Australia? We (pedigree dogs) are already losing out in numbers to designer breeds and BYB dogs - if pedigree breeders heaped more restrictions/requirements onto prospective owners, would they still bother? Of course we (breeders) dictate who buys our puppies but we also have to be realistic. I am lucky in that my breed is pretty adaptable (and always has been, even as a pure working animal), and with a fairly basic level of training and an acceptance of it's nature (a terrier, NOT a biddable gundog or working dog for eg), they will fit into most situations. But for the breeders of the 'harder' dogs, those who do require a higher level of understanding where do they do? I'm not saying, for example, make the Weim into a Labrador or a Golden Retriever, but honestly, do you think that if there was a program like Germany's in place here in Australia that all the puppies born would be placed?? I don't think that Australians take well to being told what they can and cannot do or own. Look at the British Bulldog as another example- a dog who's current temperament is a complete turnaround from the original breed- to make a dog to fit in as a companion.

I have worked very hard with Caber over the past 5 years (bad experiences as a pup has made him react first- ask questions later) and I can now take him around shows to 'visit' people and he can say hello to about 90% of dogs without a problem... If I walk him on his own around the neighbourhood he is gernally perfectly behaved and will rarely react to another dog but I don't WANT him to react so I ask people to please control their dogs... get the usual "he's fine" and I have to say "well mine isn't so can you PLEASE control your dog". What shits me thnough is when they respond with something like "If he's aggressive he should be muzzled". Why should my dog be muzzled if he walks at heel, sits at the curb, stays on leash etc and only reacts to other dogs- does not instigate anything????? And on the other hand, wee Ziva is friendly, if submissive, but because she is so small I prefer to be picky about strange dogs she 'meets'. Some dogs are very overbearing on a little dog and she doesn't appreciate that. She also doesn't like small fluffy dogs very much (I think she sees them as prey?), and honestly, I wouldn't trust her not to go for a pom or similar. She hasn't but I don't see it as a risk worth taking!! At the end of the day, they are MY dogs and who they meet and greet is upto ME. Grr.

And that is the conundrum isn't it?

One problem with having a huge emphasis on breeding dogs with working ability, high drive etc is that you then reduce the number of homes available and what happens to the breed when not enough homes can be found for the pups? If breeders culled 'excess' pups there';d be an outcry, but on the other hand if there aren't enough homes, then dogs may not be bred from and lines or even breeds will get lost. With the greater number of people owning dogs of all breeds for companionship now days (as well as legal restrictions in many countries/regions on hunting), it becomes a bit of a double edged sword, doesn't it?? Do you alter the breed so it fits into society or do you risk losing it???

I love the Saint Bernard!!! Smooth collie hasn't changed much (although the example in the book looks to have a dipped topline, lovely proportions though). Couldn't see a Border.

Hey congrats!! He is such a cutie

FANTASTIC RESULT!!! Congratulations

Very nice!! I have the Newfy one

With my chosen breed (Border Terrier), I am in two minds about their working ability- one one hand, I would love to see the dogs still working as they originally did (mainly running with the horses, following the hounds then bolting the fox from the hole- only defending itself if need be, never attacking the fox), but then I think, do I want to expose my pets to such a dangerous situation?? So we have Earthdog trials (not that I've done many of these... yet haha), which are a generic test of any 'earth dog' breed (many small terriers, and Dachsunds), whether they were bred to hunt fox, rabbit, badger, otter etc. The 'sport' is also trainable in a dog that lacks instinct or is afraid to go to earth. And in the case of my breed, does nothing to prove or even indicate the dog's ability to get along with other dogs (a snappy Border would be shot) or the dog's ability to keep up with a horse/cover long distances. But the latter can be indicated by participating in an Endurance trial... So I guess I have to ask myself, given the opportunity- would I actually work my Terriers??? I'd like to say yes for the sake of ensuring working ability but my heart says no- it's not worth the risk to their safety. However when looking at breeding my dogs (and if I were purchasing a new puppy), I try to keep 'working ability' at the forefront of my mind- is the dog BUILT CORRECTLY?? Incorrect angulation will likely lead to poor/exhausting movement and lack of endurance, tight pelt will cause the dog to become stuck in a narrow fox hole where it will have to be dug out or left to die, small ears wont protect from loose earth or water, large ears are at risk of tearing, long or weak loin will (likely) reduce endurance, too large a ribcage and the dog will get stuck, too narrow and the dog wont have enough lung capacity for a full day's work, small nostirls will clog with dirt and so on and so forth. I feel that personally, ensuring a dog who is built to work and has the correct temperament/spirit required for it's original job is the best that I can do short of actually working the animals myself. As for the dogs working overseas- I understand they have generally fallen out of favor for fox hunting (although there are exceptions), however many are used for hunting small animals in the USA and a number are used for things such as tracking wounded Elk in Europe (blood tracking). On another note- I am convinced that if I knew how to do it, I could train Caber to herd (even if it were just ducks), he has the ability to learn almost anything I ask and understands direction etc. Although the breed has been used as a 'farm dog' in the past, they have not really been required to herd or do much at all with stock. I hope that mum will do some herding in the near future with her smoothie, though I wouldn't want to put her on cattle as they are a bit scary (according to many sources, the smooth coated scotch collie (aka Collie Smooth) was more of a cattle drover/guardian than sheepdog like it's rough-coated cousin. To me, she is built correctly, not only does she fit the written standard but in my mind, she looks like a balanced animal who could carry out a day's work without an issue. She also has that classically elegant look about her whilst still appearing strong.

You know, Ziva had an inkling that it was you following her

Thanks I wasn't sure if 'household' disinfectants were okay or I needed to get the specific aniaml/vet stuff. We use Myo around the house & white vingar so that's nice and cheap So glad we bought a heavy duty washing machine, it's certainly going to get a good work out Oh and can I ask a potentially stupid question?? What about the other dogs? The whelping box is to be set up in the front/spare room, with a baby gate (which has a small doggy door in it so Ziva can come and go as she pleases but the others can't get in). When is it safe for them to interact with the pups? Also, mum will likely still be showing Nessa so although she wont be directly in contact with the babies, is there anything we should do/wipe her down with before allowing her back in the house???

Just wondering what everyone uses to disinfect the surroundings (whelping box, floor, shoes etc) and also what I can put in the washing machine when washing the blankets?? I'll be using blankets and towels bought from the op shop so want to make sure they are 100% clean. Thanks

I personally think they should either write them into the standard so that they can be judged without contradiction, or write them out all together. My preference being for the later and include them along with the livers and the B & T's. The BSE basically states that to show, breed or award a prize to those colours ( b & T or liver ), serves only to encourage them , where infact they should be ostracised, as when bred with they will spread like a germ. It just seems silly to 'accept' an impossible color.