SpikesPuppy

No idea why they weren't included in the original standards. Quite a few poodle folk are concerned that if allowed in, the quest for flashy markings will see the overall quality of dogs plummet. I can see their point. Yeah, I can understand that. Still a shame, though.

Hey, I've seen clips by 'professional groomers' that are worse than that. He did a good job

Considering the historical connection with the Partis (have images of several old paintings etc of water dogs which very much resemble parti coloured poodles), why on earth are they not recognised? They are

Responsible, ethical breeders whould IMO be able to breed for the pet market if they so wish. I really don't buy this breeding to improve the breed bullshit. I am not suggesting we should breed crap BUT why can't people ethically provide healthy, conformationally sound & temperamented pets that will grow to a certain size, have a predictable coat type and so on??? As others said- it's the want it now attitude. People are impatient (and that doesn't always make them bad owners either). And really, who wants to commit to a puppy 6 months before it's born? Who knows exactly where they will BE in six months??? With my litter, I had a 'full' waiting list more than 6 months ago. When the pregnancy was confirmed in December, most of the people either didn't reply, had got another dog or their circumstances had changed. Only ONE family from my original list is now getting a puppy. I am also not suggesting that bitches should be constantly bred or that breeders HAVE TO keep providing puppies, but why is it such a NO-NO when a registered breeder breeds a litter to satisfy their responsible pet puppy buyers??? Yes, I am aware it goes against the ANKC code of ethics but is the code of ethics really going to save the Pedigree Dog???

Congrats on all the new babies RIP to the little angels who didn't make it.

Save-A-Dog Scheme, a shelter in Melbourne He is one cute pug!!! I would have loved to see the look on your daughter's face how awesome- come home from a great holiday only to find a new best friend ;)

in 18 years of living at the same address I have only had rangers do their door to door check once! Even though they do it annually. And I only had to show them one tag, they never asked to see all of them. (The collar and tag were hanging on hook on the front porch). I have never ever, wherever I have lived, been spoken to a ranger while out walking my dog, so have never had one check my dogs collar for tags. One of mine lost their tag soon after the I got the new ones, I still haven't got a replacement I'll get a new one in April when I renew We have never had the council door knock here or in our previous suburb- but have had the dog's checked while walking Bloody pain in the ass too because I use different collars depending on what our walk is so I have to make sure I change the bloody tags over!! I'm not telling people NOT to do it but it's a risk, and could result in a decent sized fine Just sucks, the whole thing. It's a risk I would take, btw (or just switch tags depending on who I'm walking at the time ), we also get one tag for the lifetime of the pet... should just keep 'loosing' them and start a collection ;)

Woo hoo ;) Hope all continues to go well

Not only that SP Frankston Council advises owners to get their puppy/dog desexed "at the time that they get it" - "If you do not intend to breed from a pet, it should be desexed at the time you get it" Why? Because according to Frankston Council: Tens of thousands of healthy dogs and cats are euthanased each year in Victoria. This is because there is not enough homes that can be found for them. We have an 'over supply' of pets. That quote in itself makes no sense??? "If you do not intend to breed from a pet"...... ummm..... yeah okay.

Laws are only as good as the policing structure, bit like the dogs on leash laws in a public place ;) I agree that people shouldn't be placed in that position as desexing puppies under 3 months in my opnion is clearly stupid. However, I would travel down the outlaw dog owner route in that instance and take the chance not registering my pup until desexing took place. The council would only know how long you had actually owned the dog if you told them. They would be none the wiser if registering a 14 month old dog that you nominated was aquired last week Victoria seems to be the pioneers of the dopy dog legislation Also read my post on the previous page- where I questioned about the dog owners who don't know any better and DO desex their puppies at an inappropriate/unsafe age. I do agree, and I too would not register the dog until it was of age to be desexed, but then... how do you excercise the animal if it does not have a registration tag on it's collar?

Awww congrats They are gorgeous!!!

The regulation ALSO poses a big issue for those who do not know the dangers of early desexing, who follow council and (some) vet advice and go ahead and desex at 3 months, maybe even 8 weeks. The very fact that the council is advocating/forcing early desexing is IMO distressing.

I have to agree with you Cosmolo. I don't understand the harshness of the legislation either as it primarily targets only dog owners who don't play the game. There is really no excuse not to register your dog with council other than to flaunt with the laws Because (according to some DOLers who live in these councils), you cannot register a dog that is undesexed (with the exception of VCA reg'd pups or with a letter from the vet so it seems), meaning you MUST have your puppy desexed before it reaches 3 months of age. Call me cynical or paranoid if you wish but I also see this kind of 'power' that the councils are putting over pet owners as another step toward zero or at the very least, heavily regulated pet ownership. We can't own the breeds we want, we can't own entire dogs, you wait and soon there will be NO exceptions to this desexing rule in certain areas. There will probably be height and weight restrictions in some areas too. I understand from this perspective, but seriously what is the likleyhood of getting caught with an unregistered puppy pending de-sexing over 3 months of age in those councils???. Never can I recall in my lifetime a ranger knocking on my door or being questioned over dog registration. In fact, I know several people owning two or more dogs of the same breed only ever register one dog with the council and nothing has ever come of it???. These practices are legally wrong, but how intense is the policing of such crimes??? Earlier in this thread someone mentioned being fined (although the fine was evenutally overturned) because they failed to register their puppy at 3 months of age... the pup was registered once it was desexed at 6 months old. It's not about the likelihood of being caught, the point is- people shouldn't have to be caught between such a rock and a hard place- who do they do right by??? Their council regulations or their puppy??? And what if, like many of us, they have read & understand the potential for health problems in desexed dogs and choose not to desex at all. They then cannot register their dog ever unless it fits the (very narrow) criteria.

The "compulsory vaccinating" where? Kennels? Shelters? Sorry - not sure what you mean. From the Frankston council website - Vaccinations Part of responsible pet ownership is to ensure that you provide your cat and dog with full vet care which includes immunisation, regular worming including heart worm treatment, flea treatment and a yearly immunisation booster. Does this mean that if you dog is picked up and isn't vacc'd, that they make you have the dog vacc'd before picking it up etc? That looks more like a guideline than compulsory vaccinating??? Oh, someone mentioned earlier about not knowing if a bitch was desexed- not all vets tattoo and you can in fact request it not to be done

No at all, it's a great topic for discussion and it's also very relevant given the thread title. Being that I own both purebred, pedigree dogs and cats it's something I'm interested in discussing. At one time, I entertained the idea of showing a cat, but after attending a few cat shows as a spectator, I decided that I couldn't cope with spending Sundays cooped up in a hall that stunk strongly of cat piss by 10am. But I love pedigree cats and love the story of the Australian Mist. Do you think this doesn't go on now? It definitely does. But no one talks about it. Some breeds that have become rare or extinct due to war, famine or whatever reason have been recreated by people with a vision, but having a clear idea in mind of what you want to create and having the commitment, drive and balls to actually do it is hugely different to making Maltipoopenschnoodledoodles. Actually, come to think of it, breeders of doodles do have a fairly clear vision. They want to make money. Lots of it. Of course it still goes on, but not nearly as often as it could or should IMO. I feel for those who are genuinely attempting to create a new breed because they have to send so many of the 'failures' out into the population and thus reduce homes for that type reducing the number of pups they can breed to create a stead line. I am no way endorsing oodle breeders but I have seen a handful of seemingly genuine 'breeders' who sell the pups for a very modest sum ($400-500) and they provide lifetime support, clipping lessons or discounted grooming, health guarantees and so on. Not all oodlers are evil or money hungry... I have been researching bringing a new breed into Australia, but the hoops I would have to jump through and the time and effort I would have to spend to have the breed ANKC recognised, I honestly don't think I'm upto it. And this is an established dog that has been FCI & UK recognised and is currently on the rare breeds AKC register. My point is- maybe some people just want to enjoy their dogs and breeding without all the crap that comes with being part of an organisation. Just because someone doesn't want to be regulated doesn't automatically mean they are irresponsible.

I have to agree with you Cosmolo. I don't understand the harshness of the legislation either as it primarily targets only dog owners who don't play the game. There is really no excuse not to register your dog with council other than to flaunt with the laws Because (according to some DOLers who live in these councils), you cannot register a dog that is undesexed (with the exception of VCA reg'd pups or with a letter from the vet so it seems), meaning you MUST have your puppy desexed before it reaches 3 months of age. Call me cynical or paranoid if you wish but I also see this kind of 'power' that the councils are putting over pet owners as another step toward zero or at the very least, heavily regulated pet ownership. We can't own the breeds we want, we can't own entire dogs, you wait and soon there will be NO exceptions to this desexing rule in certain areas. There will probably be height and weight restrictions in some areas too.

I don't think it is that easy to create a new dog breed- in the days when there were less breeds or regulations on breeding and people were breeding for a purpose other than the show ring, people could also cull (and by cull I mean kill, not desex and pet home) excess puppies or ones that didn't make the grade. But someone trying to do that now would be shot down to the ground. I believe that one day, the Labradoodle will become a recognised & legitimate breed, thanks to a dedicated handful of breeders, but it will have to be given a new name to differentiate it from the Labrador/Poodle crosses. I hope you did not misunderstand me, GayleK- I meant my question tongue-in-cheek. I don't care if there are 10 or 10 thousand cat breeds. I do find it interesting though that owning a moggy/mongrel cat is acceptable but heaven forbid one owns a mongrel dog.

Everyone is doing well- all putting on weight each day ;) The big boy & girl have both passed the 300g mark And all are on target for doubling their birthweight at 10 days. Bloody timewasters ;)

But there seems to be little option available for dog breeders to do the same thing??? One could argue that there are more than enough cats in the world and given that the majority are household pets/companions (as opposed to dogs which are used for dozens of different purposes), why do we need more than a handful of cat breeds???

I can't find anything on my dog's papers saying main register- but I've never had a limited reg dog so not sure what it says on that... I barely get any benefit from my yearly membership to DOGSVic and I show... why would a family who just wants a happy, healthy pet want to spend that much money ??? And what about dog's out on breeder's terms? Stud dogs in particular. It's too much invasion of privacy for one thing. This is NOT going to stop backyard breeding or crossbreeding- the kids of people they are trying to stop wont register their pets anyway and wont care enough if the dog does get picked up to pay the release fee- they will just go get another dog!!!

Burmilla would be another new cross breed cat!!

Thanks, I will contact them and ask. Just so annoyed and concerned about potentially selling a pup there (this person is on my 'reserve' list if a buyer falls through). New puppy owners shouldn't have to jump through that many bloody hoops when it's something that is of no benefit to anyone

It's not cheap to join the VCA!! And what happens if they don't renew their membership? Do you know if the pup can remain in my name for DOGSvic purposes? That sucks ;) : Another *sigh*. I only want them entire until 6-9 months, geeze.

Huh? I don't think so. What about cross-breeds? They aren't registered or recognised by ANKC. What about purebreeds that aren't registered (by owner choice or otherwise)? I know of no law that says they must be, if they are to live. I think SpikesPuppy ment all living pups from an ANKC breeding. Thanks Menacebear. I'm really sorry to be 'dumb' (mind is in other things so I'm multi-tasking here) ..... but to me an "ANKC breeding" means that it is a breed the ANKC recognises. I still do not believe that it is law that dog breeds recognised by ANKC have to be registered with the ANKC ??? I'm asking here, as I feel as though I've missed a point somewhere along the lines of the posts in this thread. Sorry for the confusion- yes, I meant all puppies bred by DOGSVictoria/VCA Registered Breeders where both the sire and the dam are ANKC registered on the main register (or equivelant overseas registry) must be registered with the ANKC (done via DOGSVictoria). This is in the DOGS Victoria Code of Ethics, I don't think I ever said it was law??? ETA: Sorry, Erny- did not mean that to sound so narky :D

No, I think you are missing a few key points :D If you would like to register your dog, the council will not register it unless the dog is desexed. That is mandatory desexing. Yes ALL dogs are supposed to be registered so it puts new dog owners of Frankston in a pickle doesn't it? Because unless they join Dogs Vic, then they will not be able to either keep their dog entire or exercise their right to desex their puppy/dog at a healthy age. Puts a mockery on responsible dog ownership and putting dogs' health first, doesn't it? Not only that, there will be some Dogs Vic breeders who wil not sell a puppy to those living in Frankston and Kinston councils, because they will not risk the health and longterm welfare of their puppies by subjecting them to early desexing. Why would they no longer sell to them? Wouldnt they register all puppies from the litter be it either main or limited? Even if they go to a pet home they will still have pedigree papers won't they? Thats all they need to provide to stop the animal from being desexed. I apologise if I'm wrong but I thought registered breeders registered all the pups in the litter? I am awaiting conformation on this- I have been told that the owner of the reg'd dog must be a registered breeder, pet owners with reg'd puppies don't count... But I am not 100% certain. I have had an enquiry from Frankston council, I don't have a pup for them atm anyway but they sound like a fantastic home, however if a pup I sold had to be desexed by 3 months of age because they weren't reg'd breeders, I would refuse to sell the puppy. Even if you do not have to be a reg'd breeder, just own a reg'd puppy... I would still worry that they would be pushed into the early desexing Also, what of the breeds that are NOT ANKC recognised??? ETA- yes, all living pups must be registered with the ANKC here in Victoria.